spikehome
Regular Contributor
Last edited:
Draytek routers
- Thread starter spikehome
- Start date
jdabbs
Super Moderator
spikehome
Regular Contributor
Last edited:
spikehome
Regular Contributor
Last edited:
Basically, lots of competition and limited distribution and advertising.
What does Draytek have that you can't get in other products?
spikehome
Regular Contributor
Draytek has all in one router cheap, good firewalling (filtering works a bit strange only), bandwith management, vlan wired, vlan wireless. vpn to vpn, pptp access, some models dual adsl line if one go's down.
Everything wat i need in one cheap produkt.
I need at my adsl-modem/router bandtwith management, openport speciefied from witch ip adress, vpn, vlan, wireless, and more stuff what the draytek support and i cannot find in one other product yet. (but i don't see so much stuff as your people do
)________
volcano vaporizer
Last edited:
They have used several different chips over time. If you do a search on the Draytek section of the Whirlpool.net.au forums, I did some research a few months ago and listed the chips they had used in several units over the past 5-8 years. They do seem to jump around from generation to generation.
One of their keys IMO is not just the chipset but they actually deisgn properly for cooling the unit, which is where most consumer routers fall flat - and thus produce these crashes and drop outs. In contrast, the Drayteks I have owned seem to be able to just plug in and run and run and run, till they basically are invisible because you dont think about the router - you dont need to - it just works.
One of their keys IMO is not just the chipset but they actually deisgn properly for cooling the unit, which is where most consumer routers fall flat - and thus produce these crashes and drop outs. In contrast, the Drayteks I have owned seem to be able to just plug in and run and run and run, till they basically are invisible because you dont think about the router - you dont need to - it just works.
stevevogelnu
New Around Here
Hi Tom ;-)
I just heard about your site from a customer who read about DrayTek in your forums. I think it is kind of funny there are DrayTek posts all over your forum but DrayTek is too small to be worth reviewing. You have all these reviews of the brands everybody knows about, but everybody knows that real innovation always comes from the small brands. I think you could add more value to the community by actually discovering new products that add unique value.
...or is this site really intended to be an elaborate Linksys ad?
Steve
www.draytek.us
YeOldeStonecat
Very Senior Member
Market harder in the US. I'm an SMB consultant, have been so for many years. I've worked on probably 99% of any/all home and SMB router brands that are in the market around here...I've not come across one single Draytek. Nor have been approached by marketing, as I'm swamped with "Become one of our partners" with all other brands out there.
Become available to our channels in the US. I just checked two of my wholesalers (both one of the bigger wholesale channels in the US)...did a search for Draytek...not one single product came up. I've been familiar with your brand name for many years..just have not seen them over here.
Hi Tim,
Good point. On the other hand, I can't imagine you just sit back and wait for whatever manufacturers see fit to send you for review.
Also, it might be in the interest of your readers to review Draytek routers, as IMNSHO they are among the best out there, plenty of functionality, few niggles, and very stable, yet just about affordable. Shame they seem to refuse to publish throughput figures though.
Regards,
Oscar.
Good point. On the other hand, I can't imagine you just sit back and wait for whatever manufacturers see fit to send you for review.
Also, it might be in the interest of your readers to review Draytek routers, as IMNSHO they are among the best out there, plenty of functionality, few niggles, and very stable, yet just about affordable. Shame they seem to refuse to publish throughput figures though.
Regards,
Oscar.
Well in all fairness I have asked on this forum a couple times about Draytek and it want even a matter of that. He flat out said he wasnt interested in reviewing the product because it wasnt in US big box stores. I said its available on the web via a couple of places I mentioned but that didnt spark his interest either.
Which IMO is an odd attitude to take to a product that readers come to you raving about. Even odder for me was the stance from a website that product available only on Web is irrelevant - I mean what if we as readers took that view to SMB itself?
Also I would have thought that reader demand to hear about a product should be as important as behind the scences agreements or sponsorship from manufacturer. I cant imagine that they would turn him down if he asked to loan a model for review of whatever.
Whatever the case, these guys make good products in my experience, far more stable than the Netgears or Linkysys that I have used in my time, so I hope he will review them.
jdabbs
Super Moderator
I'm not going to speak for Tim, but I'll give you a US-centric perspective.
Availability:
0 results for "Draytek" in Pricegrabber Computers>Networking>Routers.
No offerings on Amazon, TigerDirect, ZipZoomFly, or Newegg (major US Internet retailers).
I'm sure you can find a site that'll ship to the US, but that only constitutes "availability" in the strictest sense. Not knocking Draytek; they just aren't sold here unless you specifically look for them (and even then it takes some effort).
The question I would be asking myself is, "Why hasn't Draytek felt it worthwhile to send an item for review?" I'd imagine the answer to that question overlaps with the reason SNB hasn't gone out on a limb to acquire a unit for review.
Reader Demand:
Obviously a unit that hasn't been reviewed is going to generate more requests than one that's already on the charts, so I suggest comparing mindshare. Thread counts per keyword:
"D-Link": 330,
"Linksys": 406,
"Netgear": 369,
"Trendnet": 80,
"Draytek": 20.
Google ratios are similar (main difference is a decrease in Netgear's standings, a mere 11-1 vs Draytek).
Draytek may be competitive quality-wise, but they're nowhere near the same level of popularity as the other guys. I don't know if they're doing anything to change that, but getting US retailers to carry their products would be a good start.
Draytek Cooperation:
I don't think they're as forthcoming as you imagine; for starters, their approach needs a bit of work.
Being carried in a "big box" store is not a criteria for review on SNB. Many of the products we review are available online only.
Actually I am American myself and in the past have bought a Draytek from one of their US retailers, Guideband.com. I am sure I posted this infomation here at some point.
But more important is whether reviews should be driven by a popularity or googling contest, or from insights into products. When we all here have experienced at least one Netgear or Belkin or Linksys piece of junk that overheats and reboots every five minutes or every day whatever, I would think that its worth putting some effort into a tip you get from a few users that "Hey this brand makes really good routers. They cost more, but we think they are worth it in use".
If this website wants to be the premier place for this subject then hey how about leading with something people havent heard of and maybe should have heard of. If its a small brand, why is that a crime? If its only hard to find but worthwhile, why not bring it to people's attention and let them know where it is that they can find it. That is value for a reader.
When I bought my Popcorn Hour media player for example, there was exactly one place I could acquire it - and that was their own website. Nor did they do any advertising either. But you know what, I respect the websites (MPCclub and AVForums) that informed me to have a look at that product, instead of sending me to go buy the media players that were "widely available" at the time - and then pull my hair out for months after. Honestly, that kind of info is valuable as hell. And no it doesnt mean the product will become mainstream. Even now I am sure that Apple or Netgear still outsells PopornHour. But the informed buyer has benefited.
As for attitude, well I could tell you a long story about bad attitude from Netgear after I had paid them my money for their product. I mean a measly 90 day warranty and they wouldnt even serve me right for that brief time. That is a bad attitude. I left them and let's put it this way, the Draytek that I replaced it with has never once crashed, nor have I had to call them or use my longer warranty. That is the "attitude" I am looking for as a consumer.
Personally I have a Draytek and I certainly aint going back to dealing with the majority of the router brands that are reviewed here. I wont tell you what I have is the best and only router of all time - I am not qualfied to do so and even I dont think it is "perfect" per se. But having used one for several years, its fair to say that its a brand worth reviewing. They are doing something right with the product. Maybe not the marketing, but hey the product quality is what matters to me, having paid my money.
Truth is electronics are increasingly a use-and-throw offering these days, so as a buyer it is refreshing to see a company that seems to make products for the long haul. With that in mind, I would suggest that you take an information provider point of view on the issue rather than gatekeeper one. There seem to be lot of egos getting in the way here. Maybe stuff about them kissing the Don's ring and so on. Or maybe something else we are not aware of. But none of that is serving us as readers of the website, or as consumers.
Inside this is also really a news opportunity. Draytek makes a good number of products and no they arent cheap, being really targeted at small busineses rather than consumers. It is certainly worth knowing which ones of their products are in fact good value for consumers and maybe worth stepping up to, and which may not be. IN other words are there any good reasons to spend 90 bucks for a Draytek G router when a DIR-655 is the same price. Are there good reasons to spend 275 bucks for a Draytek N router when that DIR is 90 bucks. Again it would be interesting to see what is really in the comparison and what types of buyer might find any value in this. The same goes for "SMB" type of networking prodcuts from D-Link and so on. Can any consumer find real value in paying more a DAP-2553 instead of a DAP-1552?
Maybe even conduct long term tests of these or other more expensive routers, to see over several months which ones may be more likely to overheat or crash or whater. Really getting under the covers. Is there any value in spending more money in the long run? If so how much is it really worth. This is the type of assessment this website has at times implicitly or explicity made regarding products such as the D-link DIR-855. Again this is the kind of info I would hope this website wants to make its name on - by informing consumers where the value is, or is. This should be more important than egos.
Last edited:
jdabbs
Super Moderator
You made several good points, so I don't want to address one point, tack on a counter-argument, and dismiss the rest. Let me catch up on work (and possibly sleep) and I'll try to respond in kind Thursday evening/Friday morning.
Edit: Okay, a little later than Friday morning.
The purpose of listing mindshare was to give some indication of Draytek's "reader demand." I could have gone one further and listed individual users since there are so few, but to be fair that's as much due to the makeup of this forum as it is interest.
I do believe popularity should have an impact on review attention. You can find numerous requests of router reevaluations, on the basis of firmware/hardware revisions. Given that not every router upgrade can be tested, priority should go to the most popular routers, since more people would benefit. Proportionality is also important; little guys or not, if Linksys has a dozen routers and Draytek has two, there's nothing sinister about having more Linksys router reviews.
I can't take a position that says no, a reader will not benefit at all from a product review. However, the amount of value derived can vary. Let's say there's a hypothetical company called...Smaytek. Smaytek isn't established in the market, but they do have a few expensive routers. SNB goes out and purchases one, and it turns out the router wasn't very good. How much does the reader benefit? Well, Smaytek doesn't have a market presence, so the average reader wasn't aware of Smaytek in the first place. They just make a mental note not to buy that router, if they ever encounter an opportunity to do so in the first place. Since not many people are interested in Smaytek products, SNB would have greater difficulty in recouping their investment from ad impressions. Meanwhile, there are other companies out there willing to provide units for review, free of charge. If that's not enough material, there are still products widely available that can be reviewed, that readers would likely be more interested in because they've encountered them before.
Personally, I gravitate towards more popular products. Go with the devil you know. A wider install base typically means more problems are documented, and often workarounds provided. You also get a feel for the company's support responsiveness. You may be satisfied by a niche company, but it's also possible you experience incompatibility with your unique configuration, which you weren't aware of due to the limited user base.
Customer experience is valuable, but consider this: assuming no other issues, if that Netgear you purchased had a 5% failure rate, 19 out of 20 users would be content. Though dissatisfied users do squawk more loudly than happy users, they're still greatly outnumbered. Should you judge a product by an experience not likely to be had by the vast majority of users? While I can understand your aversion to Netgear because of perceived poor customer service, I'd be hesitant to judge Draytek by the same metric without dealing with their support at all. Even then, as the saying goes, "the plural of anecdote is not data." You may have simply failed to lose the hardware defect lottery twice in a row. The best way to indirectly gauge reliability is to draw conclusions from larger samples, which is difficult for niche companies.
Have you considered emailing Draytek to find out why they don't bother submitting their products for review by US sites?
That may not be fair to Draytek--hypothetical review states "@$275, this router represents poor value compared to consumer lineup." Business class hardware @ business class prices is poor value for consumers, because of different feature weightings. If you don't need VPN support, paying an extra $100 for something unnecessary is difficult to justify. I think Draytek marketing should be the one telling you why their product is special, and reviewers to evaluate those claims.
The problem with stability testing is that you can only report on the problems you experience. Stability also changes with hardware/firmware upgrades; in order to stay relevant, you'd have to constantly reevaluate the router. Deriving stability from the community is a much better method, provided you have enough insight to sift though reports. And I think the business perspective is a much better explanation than "egos."
Edit: Okay, a little later than Friday morning.
The purpose of listing mindshare was to give some indication of Draytek's "reader demand." I could have gone one further and listed individual users since there are so few, but to be fair that's as much due to the makeup of this forum as it is interest.
I do believe popularity should have an impact on review attention. You can find numerous requests of router reevaluations, on the basis of firmware/hardware revisions. Given that not every router upgrade can be tested, priority should go to the most popular routers, since more people would benefit. Proportionality is also important; little guys or not, if Linksys has a dozen routers and Draytek has two, there's nothing sinister about having more Linksys router reviews.
I can't take a position that says no, a reader will not benefit at all from a product review. However, the amount of value derived can vary. Let's say there's a hypothetical company called...Smaytek. Smaytek isn't established in the market, but they do have a few expensive routers. SNB goes out and purchases one, and it turns out the router wasn't very good. How much does the reader benefit? Well, Smaytek doesn't have a market presence, so the average reader wasn't aware of Smaytek in the first place. They just make a mental note not to buy that router, if they ever encounter an opportunity to do so in the first place. Since not many people are interested in Smaytek products, SNB would have greater difficulty in recouping their investment from ad impressions. Meanwhile, there are other companies out there willing to provide units for review, free of charge. If that's not enough material, there are still products widely available that can be reviewed, that readers would likely be more interested in because they've encountered them before.
Personally, I gravitate towards more popular products. Go with the devil you know. A wider install base typically means more problems are documented, and often workarounds provided. You also get a feel for the company's support responsiveness. You may be satisfied by a niche company, but it's also possible you experience incompatibility with your unique configuration, which you weren't aware of due to the limited user base.
Customer experience is valuable, but consider this: assuming no other issues, if that Netgear you purchased had a 5% failure rate, 19 out of 20 users would be content. Though dissatisfied users do squawk more loudly than happy users, they're still greatly outnumbered. Should you judge a product by an experience not likely to be had by the vast majority of users? While I can understand your aversion to Netgear because of perceived poor customer service, I'd be hesitant to judge Draytek by the same metric without dealing with their support at all. Even then, as the saying goes, "the plural of anecdote is not data." You may have simply failed to lose the hardware defect lottery twice in a row. The best way to indirectly gauge reliability is to draw conclusions from larger samples, which is difficult for niche companies.
Have you considered emailing Draytek to find out why they don't bother submitting their products for review by US sites?
That may not be fair to Draytek--hypothetical review states "@$275, this router represents poor value compared to consumer lineup." Business class hardware @ business class prices is poor value for consumers, because of different feature weightings. If you don't need VPN support, paying an extra $100 for something unnecessary is difficult to justify. I think Draytek marketing should be the one telling you why their product is special, and reviewers to evaluate those claims.
The problem with stability testing is that you can only report on the problems you experience. Stability also changes with hardware/firmware upgrades; in order to stay relevant, you'd have to constantly reevaluate the router. Deriving stability from the community is a much better method, provided you have enough insight to sift though reports. And I think the business perspective is a much better explanation than "egos."
Last edited:
Similar threads
Similar threads
Similar threads
-
Pro-sumer WiFi 6/6E routers with support for VLAN, VPN, SSH, and some custom firmware
- Started by SDF07S
- Replies: 36
-
Microsoft to block access to routers with USB storage in Windows 11 24H2
- Started by TheLostSwede
- Replies: 13
-
-
Using 2 routers (no bridge), DDNS configuration not working
- Started by cetiberiojr
- Replies: 3
Latest threads
-
Have I overloaded my AX86U Pro with amtm stuff?- Started by Zakalwe
- Replies: 6
-
Options for providing services on IPv6 w/ ISP prefix delegation
- Started by i0ntempest
- Replies: 3
-
Recommendations for a wifi-to-ethernet access point or device (bridge?)
- Started by DeopHaft
- Replies: 0
-
I want to learn and would appreciate some help.
- Started by Currently Studying
- Replies: 10
-
Support SNBForums w/ Amazon
If you'd like to support SNBForums, just use this link and buy anything on Amazon. Thanks!
Sign Up For SNBForums Daily Digest
Get an update of what's new every day delivered to your mailbox. Sign up here!