First time post! Wireless connectivity problems...

[ivansmashem]

Hi everyone. Name's Josh. Allow me to preface this by saying that I'm pretty bad with wireless stuff, so if there's additional information I should give, please feel free to let me know and I'll get on it as soon as I can.

For quite some time now (years, actually) I would have an issue where my ping would occasionally go through the roof. It didn't happen all that often, so I wasn't too concerned about it.

Recently, however, I can't stay connected to Mumble/Starcraft/Any website for longer than a few minutes without suffering TONS of lost packets. Every time I do a tracert to my Mumble server, I time out at least once along the way. I do eventually always seem to reconnect (5-30 seconds usually), but it's just a giant pain in the butt.

Some more background...
This has been the case for both of my computers (first one ran Windows XP, new one running Windows 7). Both were 64-bit versions of Windows. I originally had a WRT54G router from Linksys which I used with my old Laptop (the one computer with which I've NEVER had a problem until it finally died), and I had a matching Linksys wireless PCI card, as well. That combination had this problem on both computers.

So then I got a new Wireless Ethernet Bridge (Zyxel WAP3205) and had the issues with that, as well (both computers). So then I got a new router (Cisco-Linksys E4200) and had the same problem still (only with new computer, as old XP computer is now dead). With the new computer, every combination of Router, Bridge and Wireless NIC has the same exact problem. I tried shortening the distance between Bridge and Router, but it doesn't seem to help at all.

I have tried every setup available on my router except for using the 5.0GHz band, as my wireless card and Bridge do not support it.

The new (6 months) computer I am trying to get everything to run on is the Windows 7 one. I have an Intel 10/100/1000 NIC for connecting the Wireless Ethernet Bridge via a Cat5 cable. I have updated the driver for that to the latest version and checked all other settings I could using the Intel Proset driver to check that everything was OK.

The firmware for the E4200 is up to date. The firmware WAS up to date at the time for the Linksys router, but it's basically overused (8yrs) into useless now, so I'd prefer not to do any testing with that. The configuration I am mainly using to attempt to determine the problem (since every setup has the same problem, fixing it in one place seems like it'll get me closer to, if not straight find, the answer) is the following:

Windows 7 64-bit Computer
Intel EXPI9301CTBLK NIC
Zyxel WAP3205 Wireless Ethernet Bridge
Cisco-Linksys E4200 Wireless Router

I am planning on replacing the Ethernet Bridge, anyway, so it's no big loss if I end up needing to in order to help fix this problem, but I was hoping not to buy anything new until I actually figure out what the problem is.

I've been troubleshooting this for a long time now with a couple friends of mine, and I am basically just in the dark without a clue at this point. Any help is greatly appreciated. Even if you aren't a wireless expert, I am nowhere close, so I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of things I haven't tried yet that may be correct, but I will never find them without being pointed in the right direction.

Thanks so far for your time reading this, and I'll check back tomorrow! Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help provide more information, as I'm sure what is listed here is very vague, and I'm not sure how to come up with a concrete way of showing what my problem is.

 

[overdrive31]

Quit using 40MHz(300Mbps) mode, set it to use 20MHz(150Mbps with MIMO) mode and you might just solve the problem.

 

[ivansmashem]

Quit using 40MHz(300Mbps) mode, set it to use 20MHz(150Mbps with MIMO) mode and you might just solve the problem.

Hi overdrive,

Thanks for your help, but this doesn't seem to make a difference. As I understand it, B and G connections are only capable of using 20MHz width. When I set my connection type as "Auto" (meaning my router will attempt to determine whether to use N, G or B), then I can also set the width to Auto.

However, part of the testing I did included setting my router to use only B and G connections for the 2.4GHz band. When using this setting, only the 20MHz width option was available, so I had to have been using it.

When I set my 2.4GHz band to N connection types only, I am able to use the 40MHz width setting, but I still have the same problem.

Thanks again for your help! If you have any other suggestions, I'll certainly try them.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that when testing 20MHz width, Channels 1 through 11 were available. I tried every available channel, and I was still experiencing the frequent packet losses / disconnects. Under 40MHz, many more Channels were available, but I only tried Channels 1 and 36.

 

[overdrive31]

Hi overdrive,

However, part of the testing I did included setting my router to use only B and G connections for the 2.4GHz band. When using this setting, only the 20MHz width option was available, so I had to have been using it.

When I set my 2.4GHz band to N connection types only, I am able to use the 40MHz width setting, but I still have the same problem.

You know you can use wireless N with 20MHz... It is the recommended setting for 2.4GHz N. What was the result of using just B and G? The use of 40MHz is pretty safe for 5GHz, but not so for 2.4GHz(just don't do it). Any channels above 11 on 2.4GHz is not allowed in the US.

What modem and/or ISP do you have?

 

[StratmanX]

EDIT: Forgot to mention that when testing 20MHz width, Channels 1 through 11 were available. I tried every available channel, and I was still experiencing the frequent packet losses / disconnects. Under 40MHz, many more Channels were available, but I only tried Channels 1 and 36.

The 2.4 GHz band uses channels 1-11 in the USA. Single channel non-bonding uses 20 MHz while bonding of adjacent channels together for the potential of increased throughputs uses double the frequency - 40 MHz.

Channel 36 is part of the 5 GHz band.

When you use channel bonding in the 2.4 GHz band you must use at least one overlapping channel (Ie NOT channels 1, 6, or 11 which are called the non-overlapping channels). You will then possibly create more interference for other wireless signals nearby and they for your signal. This may cause slower throughputs for all as this interference must be negotiated by the router (as well as sharing that can always occur when at least one neighbor's wireless router uses the same channel as you do). So, sometime using a single channel (20 MHz) which is not bonded to an adjacent channel (40 MHz) is better for performance.

The idea is to choose a channel which has the least amount of traffic. There can be 10 other wireless signals that selected the same channel as you but as long as none of them are doing transfers of large amounts of data then you may be OK with throughputs. Conversely, if there is only one other neighborhood signal using the same channel as you, but they are a heavy user, then your performance will be poorer.

You can use software like the free "inSSIDER" on your wireless client (notebook or PC) to see what other wireless signals are in your environment as well as the strength of those signals. This will help with choosing a channel to use. You can use something like the free"Iperf" (or it's Java spin-off called Jperf) to test throughput speeds for various locations, channels, bandwidths, and hardware (with and without the bridge as well as directly wired to the router). You'll also want something to test latency (pings), important for gaming over wireless, which you already seem to know how to do.

One thing you cannot do without more specialized equipment (ie buy or borrow something) is to detect frequency interference from electrical devices in your environment. Cordless phones, certain AV equipment, hair dryers and more can negatively affect your wireless signal. Maybe your neighbor got a new freezer and it is screwing with your signal.

One thing for you to consider is using either MoCA (ethernet over coaxial cable), or HomePlugPowerline (uses your electrical wiring). These may provide improved signal strength over distance when either wireless or wired connections are not feasible. Not sure about latency's for these connections.

 

[ivansmashem]

Hi Strat,

Thanks a lot for the info. I'll be sure download one of those free programs and specifically test using the best channel. Unfortunately, I don't have much hope overall for that process, as I've tried all of the channels (sidenote: I was wondering why every guide I found for setting up a router told me 1, 6 or 11 was best; now I understand that, so thanks again).

I'll take a look at the other options you mentioned if I can't get the Wireless to ever work out. Seriously, thanks a ton for the info.

I'm still open to more info, but I'll make sure I post back if anything works.

 

[StratmanX]

Hi Strat,

Thanks a lot for the info. I'll be sure download one of those free programs and specifically test using the best channel. Unfortunately, I don't have much hope overall for that process, as I've tried all of the channels (sidenote: I was wondering why every guide I found for setting up a router told me 1, 6 or 11 was best; now I understand that, so thanks again).

I'll take a look at the other options you mentioned if I can't get the Wireless to ever work out. Seriously, thanks a ton for the info.

I'm still open to more info, but I'll make sure I post back if anything works.

YW.

Just to reiterate, using inSSIDER and iperf you may figure out the best locations for your wireless router and bridge.

Good luck and let the forum know how things progress.

 

[ivansmashem]

You know you can use wireless N with 20MHz... It is the recommended setting for 2.4GHz N. What was the result of using just B and G? The use of 40MHz is pretty safe for 5GHz, but not so for 2.4GHz(just don't do it). Any channels above 11 on 2.4GHz is not allowed in the US.

What modem and/or ISP do you have?

Thanks again for the comments, overdrive.

I have tried using 20MHz with only the N connection on the 2.4GHz band. Same results.

Using Just B/G connection type, the same thing happens.

I'm not sure of my exact modem, as I'm at work and not at home, but it is a non-gateway modem. Just a straight cable in/ethernet out (to my router) setup. My ISP is RCN (pretty local to just below the New England area), but their service easily beats out Comcast in my area. My connection speed is 40Mbps (for only $30 a month, no contract).

YW.

Just to reiterate, using inSSIDER and iperf you may figure out the best locations for your wireless router and bridge.

Good luck and let the forum know how things progress.

Edit: To be more specific, I was on the 2.4GHz band all last night for the following information.
I began using inSSIDER 2.0 last night. I am currently running on Channel 6, and was easily the strongest connection I could see at about -50 RSSI (not sure how this equates to a positive unit of measurement for signal strength, but the connection was very solid at -50 last night).

One other connection was also on Channel 6 exclusively, but with about -90 RSSI (don't think I could keep a connection on that if I tried).

Another 2.4GHz connection was on Channel 11, but that was also very weak.

The second strongest signal was something spread out across Channels 3-7. It was listed as about -70 to -80 RSSI.

However, I did all of these tests last night, and last night the problem had (at least temporarily) magically disappeared. For the last three weeks or so, I haven't been able to keep a connection for more than 15 minutes without basically suffering the equivalent of a full disconnect due to all the packets I wasn't receiving. Then last night, out of the blue, I was online playing Starcraft, surfing the web, using Mumble, etc. all night at my usually 10/100 bridge speeds (about 20Mbps) with not a single interruption. The problem just vanished... which is why it's been such a pain in the butt for me to troubleshoot this. Sometimes I'll go for a couple months without a single issue, then BAM, I can't stay connected for weeks at a time.

I'll continue to update as I try new things / make any progress.

Thank you again for all the support, guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[JoeJoe]

For 2.4Ghz, only use channels 1 or 6 or 11, nothing else.

If you use a wifi watch program around a business, you will see that APs only exist on these 3 non-over lapping channels.

 

[StratmanX]

Thanks again for the comments, overdrive.

I have tried using 20MHz with only the N connection on the 2.4GHz band. Same results.

Using Just B/G connection type, the same thing happens.

I'm not sure of my exact modem, as I'm at work and not at home, but it is a non-gateway modem. Just a straight cable in/ethernet out (to my router) setup. My ISP is RCN (pretty local to just below the New England area), but their service easily beats out Comcast in my area. My connection speed is 40Mbps (for only $30 a month, no contract).



Edit: To be more specific, I was on the 2.4GHz band all last night for the following information.
I began using inSSIDER 2.0 last night. I am currently running on Channel 6, and was easily the strongest connection I could see at about -50 RSSI (not sure how this equates to a positive unit of measurement for signal strength, but the connection was very solid at -50 last night).

One other connection was also on Channel 6 exclusively, but with about -90 RSSI (don't think I could keep a connection on that if I tried).

Another 2.4GHz connection was on Channel 11, but that was also very weak.

The second strongest signal was something spread out across Channels 3-7. It was listed as about -70 to -80 RSSI.

However, I did all of these tests last night, and last night the problem had (at least temporarily) magically disappeared. For the last three weeks or so, I haven't been able to keep a connection for more than 15 minutes without basically suffering the equivalent of a full disconnect due to all the packets I wasn't receiving. Then last night, out of the blue, I was online playing Starcraft, surfing the web, using Mumble, etc. all night at my usually 10/100 bridge speeds (about 20Mbps) with not a single interruption. The problem just vanished... which is why it's been such a pain in the butt for me to troubleshoot this. Sometimes I'll go for a couple months without a single issue, then BAM, I can't stay connected for weeks at a time.

I'll continue to update as I try new things / make any progress.

Thank you again for all the support, guys. I really appreciate it.

First, great price for 40 Mbps from your ISP.

Second, If you can choose a channel, non-overlapping preferentially to be a good neighbor, that no one else is on, which sounds like channel 1 in your case.

You say the inSSIDer RSSI signal intensity is greatest (least negative = better signal) on channel 6. Does this mean you have checked all the channels? If not, do so.

With someone else on channel 6, traffic on their side must be negotiated with traffic on your side. If either of you, let alone both of you, are downloading/uploading large amounts of sustained data, then both of you will suffer decreased throughput as both your routers work to share the bandwidth frequency.

The person occupying channels 3-7 is using channel bonding (40 MHz) and broadcasting in both non-overlapping and overlapping channels. Essentially, they are using the same frequency as you on channel 6, so there is the potential for more competition for use of the channel frequencies all of you have selected.

While you may have a better RSSI on channel 6 than other channels, your actual throughputs may be slower because you have to share data transfer time with the other two wireless signals in your location.

The person on channel 11 presents the same potential issues as the other two neighbor's signals if you select channel 11 to use. InSSIDer only gives one piece of the puzzle in determining how best to maximize your wireless set up. You also should measure wireless throughputs between 2 of your computers and try it for all channels and at different times of day and night (since your neighbors may use their wireless signal at various times). Using something like iperf will give you an idea of performance of your wireless router alone without any additional issues that may come into play when using the internet to judge performance of your LAN.

Concerning you dropped signals - it can be anything from your computer to the server and all points in between. Sounds like you have tried to isolate it on your side. Do these issues ever come up when you are directly connected to the modem, ie not using the router? This might help narrow the location of the problem(s). It still could be your side, but you should get your ISP involved. Your ISP should have procedures in place for handling concerns like yours.

 

[StratmanX]

For 2.4Ghz, only use channels 1 or 6 or 11, nothing else.

In a perfect world, this would be best. Unfortunately, I have 12 wireless signals in my location, a couple which are bonded and another one or two which are not bonded but using an overlapping channel. Also, there have been a few who have upgraded their wireless routers to more powerful signals which further complicates the matter. It is a mess.

My best selection is an overlapping channel if I want to maximize my throughputs. There appears to be a lot of data streaming in my area. All the non-overlapping channels are significantly poorer performers.

 

[ivansmashem]

Hi again, everyone. First, I hope everyone had a happy holiday; I know I did. I definitely took a break from trying to figure any of this stuff out. Now that I'm back to work again, anyway, I'll let the stress start to build again, heh.

Thanks again for all of your responses. As always, Strat, you give me plenty of useful things to try. I'll get started on testing my throughput when I can, but I imagine it will take a while to get some useful data.

As I had stated in my last post, my problem yet again miraculously vanished. To enjoy it while it lasts for as long as possible, I'll probably just start with testing my throughput on Channel 6 first. The other connections I see there don't appear to show up very often. It could be that when they do, and when they are both attempting to use a lot of bandwidth is when I run into trouble. Hopefully I'll be able to determine that with iperf and some nights/days of data collection, but for right now I'm about a week straight with zero problems.

I'll make sure to check back and make a post every week or so to let everyone know how their suggestions have worked out.

Do these issues ever come up when you are directly connected to the modem, ie not using the router?

No. These issues have never shown up on the one computer that is hardlined into the router with Cat5 cable. As the symptoms have disappeared for now, I haven't yet tested that computer with my wireless bridge, but I will be sure to include that if [read:when] this problem returns.

Thanks again for all of your help, everyone. I'd have been left chasing my own tail without it.

 

[StratmanX]

Do these issues ever come up when you are directly connected to the modem, ie not using the router?

No. These issues have never shown up on the one computer that is hardlined into the router with Cat5 cable. As the symptoms have disappeared for now, I haven't yet tested that computer with my wireless bridge, but I will be sure to include that if [read:when] this problem returns.

If the problems reoccur, I would begin by trying to isolate the origin of the problems.

First I would want to see if my modem, ISP or the internet at large is the cause. Plug your notebook directly into your modem and check for issues. If it's still occuring then it's something from your notebook, the modem, the wiring in and outside your home on the way to your ISP, your ISP itself, or the internet beyond your ISP.

Second, if everything is well in step number 1, then I would plug directly into your wireless router and see what happens. If there is still a problem then your wireless router is the issue.

Third, if steps one and two are OK, then I would connect wirelessly to your wireless router and see if all is OK. You may need to turn of your wireless bridge and re-configure the router and NIC adapter in your notebook to connect to the wireless router. You want to make suer that your bridge in no way augments your test of the router.

Fourth, if all previous steps display no problems then it could be your wireless bridge or your router configured for bridge mode.

The issue could still be some outside interference in your location, such as an electrical device in your home or around your home that turns on intermittently. It could be spontaneous intermittent heavy wireless traffic from a neighbor. It still could be some configuration of your computer or other device on your LAN.

One other thing to try would be when the problem reoccurs, reboot your wireless devices starting with the wireless router and then if it persists, reboot the bridge. I would also try rebooting the modem, maybe even before rebooting wireless devices.

The idea is to methodically test and isolate as best as you can where the problem seems to originate. It may take quite a while, seeing how your problem is intermittent, but you should eventually narrow down the culprit(s) which will direct your next move - call your ISP, call tech support for your devices on your LAN, or get new gear to try out.

And yes, I did have a good Thanksgiving. Glad to hear you did too.