[Flexible Volumes & Storage Pools] Static Single vs Thick Multiple vs Thin Multiple Volumes

[iunlock]

This topic is all over the place and very confusing for some, therefore, I've figured it be useful to organized some of the findings. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here and I hope that you can chime in to make this simple for everyone to understand.

I also have some questions for my setup on my second TVS-671 unit, regarding the volumes and storage pools for my needs.

I have the TVS-671 (6TBx6) configured as a RAID 5 with 2 spare 6TB on standby.

Here's what I need to do in the best organized way possible:

• Host iTunes Library: Multiple devices will stream from it.
  
  
• Photo/Video Backups from multiple Mobile Devices.
  
  
• Media Server (Movies): Lots of streaming from multiple users.
  
  
• Time Machine Backup:

Creating volumes and storage pools remind me a lot of partitions in a way. It basically really is in a lot of ways eh?

I'll do my best to explain it in a way I've come to understand it...however, please correct me if I'm way off base and I'll be sure to update the OP so that it reflects the correct info...so here we go!

Understanding Storage Pools:

Very simply put ... One Storage Pool = One Volume.


Static Single Volume vs Thick Multiple Volume vs Thin Multiple Volume:

Static Single Volume: Simply put, this is like one big partition yes? One big warehouse with no rooms for all your data. It's the one big pool that everything goes in. All eggs in one basket. One bucket. LOL.

Thick Multiple Volume: This basically allows you to create multiple rooms (volumes) in your warehouse (storage pool), while being able to preallocated the space of the size of the room (volume). In my case I have one big warehouse (1 storage pool) that takes up every square inch of my property (all 36TB) so I now have the option to create as many rooms (volumes) in my warehouse as I please for my individual users. So John will have his office room, Shannon will her her office room and so on...while some office rooms (volumes) I can build bigger to let many people (groups) share it.

[Here's what QNAP says: "By default, almost half of the storage pool capacity will be used. You can change the capacity, alert thresholds and volume alias settings. You can also choose to encrypt this volume."]

It's important to understand that although half of your storage pool will be used, you can later change the amount of the storage pool's size that you want to make available for the rooms (volumes) being built/created. (ie...by default it's set to use half of your warehouse (storage pool) for the rooms (volumes) that will be built/created, but you can change the amount of space you want to designate for where the rooms (volumes) will be built. If you only want to make a 1/4 of the warehouse (storage pool) available for the rooms (volumes), then so be it...etc...)

Thin Multiple Volume: (I'm a little fussy about this one.) It's similar to the Thick Multiple Volume, however, when you build a room (volume) here you're able to expand the walls to make it bigger if needed, yes? Basically you don't need to predetermine the space of a room (volume) right from the start because it's expandable with movable walls? This option would allow you to make the best use of your space in the warehouse (storage pool)? Hence, the word "thin?"

Like I've said, I'm a little unclear about what makes Thick Multiple Volume different from Thin Multiple Volume when from the sounds of it you can pretty much do the same thing? :roll:

:idea: This is what QNAP says about the three volume types: "According to personal demand, you can choose Static Volume (better performance), Thick Volume (good performance and flexibility) and Thin Volumes (better flexibility)." - It speaks for itself in terms of performance (arguable), but we also need more info on the real world practicality besides the descriptions listed in the volume creation wizard.

So the questions is....when, why, who, what, & where? (j/k...but you get the drift) Someone please explain...

Questions:

Configuration for multiple users:

Option A: Is it best to create 1 storage pool -> then create multiple volumes (thick or thin multiple volumes?) from there to allocate the space for the different users + media server, iTunes etc...?

OR

Option B: Create multiple Storage Pools (Good idea or bad idea?) -> then just use those different Storage Pools as I would the multiple volumes as mentioned above? (ie...Taking the big warehouse (total HD space) and compartmentalizing it into their own fixtures.)

When it comes to recovery, which method/configuration would be best? - I would think as a general rule of thumb, keeping it simple and clean as possible would make for a smoother recovery & outcome? Or is my old school way of thinking surfacing by saying that? Some of you know what I mean as we didn't have options back then...but now that we do...well, that's why I'm curious.

Update: According to QNAP, "The storage pool aggregates hard drives into a bigger storage space, and with the ability to support multiple RAID groups, the storage pool can offer more redundant protection and reduce risk of data crash. With thin provisioning, storage space can be used more efficiently, and users can dynamically add or expand the capacity on demand to deploy storage for intended applications."

So out of my 6 drives, I could select 2 of them to aggregate them to be one big.

• Drive 1
  Drive 2
  Drive 3
  Drive 4
  Drive 5
  Drive 6

Which would then look like:

• Drive 1+2 (12TB)
  Drive 3 (6TB)
  Drive 4 (6TB)
  Drive 5 (6TB)
  Drive 6 (6TB)

Within the (12TB) container I can then create Thin Multiple Volumes in there for iTunes, Media etc...

This brings about all the benefits of a basic HD partition does it not? Where if there's a fire in building 1+2 (Drives 1+2), it's not going to effect the other drives...

If that's the case, why wouldn't we all do this? There has to be reasons & limitations...

Can someone clarify the first sentence? - "The storage pool aggregates hard drives into a bigger storage space, and with the ability to support multiple RAID groups..."

If I'm understanding the last part correctly, I assume the key words in there are "and + support + multiple." Meaning that you can create varies types of RAID within that Storage Volume area? (I'm staring at the diagram as I'm typing this...)

So if you're wanting to do a RAID 5, which requires at least 3 disks, you would have to create a Storage Volume made up of at least 3 aggregated drives to make RAID 5 possible yes?

Because how would a RAID 5 work with only 2 aggregated drives? I'm confused. (Though they do show at least 3 drives per Group example in the diagram?)

---

If I were to utilize the different volume types for:

• ITunes LIbrary:
  
  
• Photo/Video Backups from multiple Mobile Devices:
  
  
• Media Server (Movies):

...would ---> Thin Multiple Volume be the best type, since the media/files are forever expanding?

Whereas if I were to go with Thick Multiple Volume I'll be having to guess what size to allocated each volume from the start, which I have no idea due to the nature of forever expanding media.

Can Thick Multiple Volume be adjusted with its space? If so, wouldn't this make it the same as Thin Multiple Volume? (This is I guess the big question...)

What are some of your set ups and why did you go with that set up?

Isn't Static Single Volume more geared toward single users?

What are the pros and cons to the three volume types when it boils down to recovery? (ie...when dirt hits the fan, what would be the most likely to survive with the highest odds of making it out alive?)

---

Resources:

QNAP RAID Expansion Enclosure to Expand Storage Capcity - This may help answer some other questions related to this topic for those who are wondering...

Storage Pools Info

How to use QNAP Flexible Volume Management?

 

[iunlock]

Continued...

For my list of use I'm thinking that I may benefit from using Thin Multiple Volumes.

Right now I have 1 Storage Pool Created. (All 6 drives as RAID 5)

I'm debating if I should split up the space on the Storage Pool 50/50 and create:

One Thin Multiple Volume for
iTunes Library
Media
Photos
Time Machine
iSCSI
etc...

...since it'll always be expanding.

AND

One Thick Multiple Volume for basically a storage dump...

However, wouldn't all this be achievable with a simple Static Single Volume? (With the exception of being able to expand Volumes in the future?)

I do plan to set up iSCSI for varies uses...so it might be a good idea set up the Volumes now accordingly before it's too late eh?

I'm also feeling that I may need to allocated more space for Thin Multiple Volume as I'll be using more of it.

Deciding on this is the hard part.

• 50/50 or
  
• 70/30 or
  
• 80/20?

Hmm.....

 

[iunlock]

Also...

Aside to the slight performance impact of Thin Multiple Volume, I'm interested to know why it's been almost non existent coming across anyone using Thin Multiple Volumes. :?:

---

The more and more I'm familiarizing myself with the different Volume types, I've come to understand it like this:
(This analogy is for Mac users and if you're familiar with sparsebundles...well...you'll see how my mind is interpreting the different types of Volumes.)

With a Mac you can go to Disk Utility and create either a "sparse bundle disk image," or a "sparse disk image."

A "sparse bundle disk image," is the file format the Mac uses for its file structure and this is also how Time Machine is structured, where the data is stored as multiple bundles. That way when Time Machine backups your computer, it's only backing up the changes in the bundles instead of overwriting the entire "image/files," of your current back up.

With a regular "sparse disk image," this is just one big container. Once you set the limit of the size of the image upon creating it, you're set. So 1GB image is 1GB image and it'll take up 1GB of space on your Hard Drive whether that image is empty or full.

Whereas with a "sparse bundle disk image," it is expandable so you can start off by creating a 1GB "sparse bundle disk image," and continue adding to it as it'll grow accordingly. Much more efficient right? At least I think so...

So a Thick Multiple Volume, to me, is like a "sparse disk image." Once you set the volume at 1TB, it'll always remain 1TB.

With a Thin Multiple Volume, it works much like a "sparse bundle disk image," where it's expandable.

---

As of right now I have (1 Storage Pool) and have noticed that when I create the first Thick or Thin Multiple Volume, that all the default folders (obviously) are placed in that first volume that is created. Now if I create another Volume of either Thick or Thin, is it possible to move the default system folders like (Public, Web, Download etc...) to the other volume? I ask because the 'select box,' to the left are all greyed out. Therefore...

Should it be a noted to make sure that the first Volume that you create (Thick or Thin) is your default Volume that will contain all your default system folders, so if you're wanting to dedicated a Volume just for "iTunes" for example, make sure to create that Volume after the first Volume. :?:

I'm interesting to hear your thoughts...Anyone?

Cheers.

 

[sfx2000]

Apple SparseBundles are different than Storage Pools in the QNAP context...

A better comparison is CoreStorage, which is a logical volume manager...

Apple's CoreStorage defines four types of objects, instances of which are uniquely represented by a UUID:

• Physical Volume (PV)

This is the actual physical storage device such as a an internal hard drive or solid state drive. A PV is normally real media but it can be a disk image or even an AppleRAID Set. A disk offered to be a PV must be a partition and the encompassing scheme must be GPT.

• Logical Volume Group (LVG)

This is the equivalent of volume groups in Linux LVM. The Logical Volume Group (LVG) is the top or "pool" level; zero or more may exist during any OS boot time session. An LVG exports zero or more Logical Volume Families (LVFs).

• Logical Volume Family (LVF)

An LVF contains properties which govern and bind together all of its descendant Logical Volumes (LVs). These properties mainly provide settings for full disk encryption (such as whether the LVG is encrypted, which users have access, etc). An LVF exports one or more LVs.

• Logical Volume (LV)

A logical volume exports a dev node, upon which a file system (such as Journaled HFS+) resides.

 

[iunlock]

Great stuff sfx2000. Thanks for sharing.

My sparsebundle analogy was regarding volumes, not storage pools.

The raw Hard Drive space is like the empty lot, property, land ie..total amount of real estate you have to work with.

Storage Pool is like the big department structure (Blooingdale's, SEARS etc...), where you can then create more department stores like Macy's, Nordstroms etc...(volumes) if you wish to do so to add onto the Mall Structure.

Volumes (Thick and Thin Multiple Volumes) are like the "sections" within the department stores. So you can organize your Men's clothing on one floor, Electronics on the other, Sporting Goods in another and so on....

So let's say with that SEARS department store structure (Storage Pool) you can organize the different departments using Volumes (Thick or Thin Multiple Volumes).

If you know you want 1/2 of an entire floor to be just Electronics, then you could use a Thick Multiple Volume to create that section (volume) because you know exactly how big you need it.

Whereas, if you need a 1/4 of that floor space for sale/clearance items that's always expanding, then you would want to use a Thin Multiple Volume to create that area since it's expandable.

Therefore, this is how I have mine set up now:

• Total Space: 36TB (Total Real Estate/Land)
• Total Storage Pools: 1 (The entire Mall Structure)
• Volumes: Many (Macy's, Sears etc...)
  
• Thin Multiple Volume: Main space "Home" that hosts my default files.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Music.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Movies.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Photos/Phone Photo Backups.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Time Machine Backups.
• Thick Multiple Volume: For just VM's etc...

I've chosen Thin Multiple Volume for the ones mentioned above, because those are forever expanding and a Thin Multiple Volume allows you to expand the space, whereas with a Thick Multiple Volume, you're not able to expand that predesignated space.

If you were to use a Thick Multiple Volume for your main "Home" volume that has all your default folders in it and end up in a situation where you would need to expand, it can be a little tedious to pack up your bags to move to another freshly created Thick Multiple Volume that has more space.

Example: If you made a 5TB Thick Multiple Volume for your main "Home," and needed more space down the road, the only way out of this is to create another Thick Multiple Volume (10TB for example) and to basically move all your stuff over to the new 10GB Thick Multiple Volume space.

In order to avoid this, I've just gone and went with the Thin Multiple Volume from the start so that I wouldn't have to pack up my bags and move out due to not having enough space.

(Note: A Thick Multiple Volume has better 'read' speeds over a Thin Multiple Volume, but not enough to really notice. The majority of things that I keep in my "Home" volume isn't really resource or CPU intensive so it makes no difference to me.)

It just boils down to how you want to organize your data and to make the best use of the space, we have the luxury of having the options of a Thick or Thin Multiple Volume. Pretty neat.

 

[Daniel5280]

How has this storage setup been working out for you?

I'm in the planning stages for a TVS-671 that I'll be ordering soon. I'll be using it pretty much the same as how you describe, mostly as a media server and backup machine for other computers.

Have you found anything you would set up differently?

 

[kng]

Great stuff sfx2000. Thanks for sharing.

My sparsebundle analogy was regarding volumes, not storage pools.

The raw Hard Drive space is like the empty lot, property, land ie..total amount of real estate you have to work with.

Storage Pool is like the big department structure (Blooingdale's, SEARS etc...), where you can then create more department stores like Macy's, Nordstroms etc...(volumes) if you wish to do so to add onto the Mall Structure.

Volumes (Thick and Thin Multiple Volumes) are like the "sections" within the department stores. So you can organize your Men's clothing on one floor, Electronics on the other, Sporting Goods in another and so on....

So let's say with that SEARS department store structure (Storage Pool) you can organize the different departments using Volumes (Thick or Thin Multiple Volumes).

If you know you want 1/2 of an entire floor to be just Electronics, then you could use a Thick Multiple Volume to create that section (volume) because you know exactly how big you need it.

Whereas, if you need a 1/4 of that floor space for sale/clearance items that's always expanding, then you would want to use a Thin Multiple Volume to create that area since it's expandable.

Therefore, this is how I have mine set up now:

• Total Space: 36TB (Total Real Estate/Land)
• Total Storage Pools: 1 (The entire Mall Structure)
• Volumes: Many (Macy's, Sears etc...)
  
• Thin Multiple Volume: Main space "Home" that hosts my default files.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Music.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Movies.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Photos/Phone Photo Backups.
• Thin Multiple Volume: For just Time Machine Backups.
• Thick Multiple Volume: For just VM's etc...

I've chosen Thin Multiple Volume for the ones mentioned above, because those are forever expanding and a Thin Multiple Volume allows you to expand the space, whereas with a Thick Multiple Volume, you're not able to expand that predesignated space.

If you were to use a Thick Multiple Volume for your main "Home" volume that has all your default folders in it and end up in a situation where you would need to expand, it can be a little tedious to pack up your bags to move to another freshly created Thick Multiple Volume that has more space.

Example: If you made a 5TB Thick Multiple Volume for your main "Home," and needed more space down the road, the only way out of this is to create another Thick Multiple Volume (10TB for example) and to basically move all your stuff over to the new 10GB Thick Multiple Volume space.

In order to avoid this, I've just gone and went with the Thin Multiple Volume from the start so that I wouldn't have to pack up my bags and move out due to not having enough space.

(Note: A Thick Multiple Volume has better 'read' speeds over a Thin Multiple Volume, but not enough to really notice. The majority of things that I keep in my "Home" volume isn't really resource or CPU intensive so it makes no difference to me.)

It just boils down to how you want to organize your data and to make the best use of the space, we have the luxury of having the options of a Thick or Thin Multiple Volume. Pretty neat.

Do you have any update after your configuration? Any tips, what would you configure different now?

 

[iunlock]

Do you have any update after your configuration? Any tips, what would you configure different now?

In now using one main Thick Volume for my Multimedia, a Thick Volume for my Time machine back ups and an isolated Thick Volume for my other back ups.

It's much easier this way from what I've found. Things play nicer ...



Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

 

[kng]

In now using one main Thick Volume for my Multimedia, a Thick Volume for my Time machine back ups and an isolated Thick Volume for my other back ups.

It's much easier this way from what I've found. Things play nicer ...



Powered by: Quad Core Exynos + 6820HK

I also started with Thick Volumes. They also can be expanded as needed, the only condition is to have some free space in the storage pool.

 

[iunlock]

I also started with Thick Volumes. They also can be expanded as needed, the only condition is to have some free space in the storage pool.

Indeed....Thick Volume works great.