For any one who upgraded to Windows 10, READ THIS!!!!

[pinkfloyd1173]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-share-wi-164057617.html

 

[L&LD]

Yes, we know.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-news/32790-heads-up-on-windows-10-wi-fi-sense

 

[pinkfloyd1173]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-share-wi-164057617.html

Sorry did not see that, close thread please.

Thanks.

 

[fax]

And for a less FUD reading of the wifi sense look here: http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-windows-10s-wi-fi-sense-feature-is-not-a-security-risk/

 

[thiggins]

I sometimes wonder whether you guys ever read SNB....

 

[jontalk]

Since I'm running a machine with Win XP I guess I'm safe, LOL.. I don't get why they would do this but the upside from what I see is Win 10 has some cool feature NOT this one though!

 

[pinkfloyd1173]

I sometimes wonder whether you guys ever read SNB....

Sometimes.

 

[David Arnstein]

And for a less FUD reading of the wifi sense look here: http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-windows-10s-wi-fi-sense-feature-is-not-a-security-risk/

I don't think this is a good article. It says:

If you know you're in my Skype contacts list feel free to park in front of my house with your Windows 10 PC. But you'll have to bring your own Wi-Fi, because Wi-Fi Sense won't let you connect to my network. That option is off by default for every network, as you can see by the Not Shared status message under each one.

And you have to very consciously enable sharing for a network. It's not something you'll do by accident.​

The security hole is real. It works like this. One of your pals visits you and requests the use of your WiFi with his shiny new Windows computer (or phone!). You tell him the password. If you're smart, you give him access to an isolated guest SSID, rather than your main SSID. In either case, your SSID is now insecure. Not because of anything you did on your computers, but because what your pal did with his device.

I suppose that you could shoulder-surf your pal while he connects to your network, and make sure that he disables WiFi Sense. But this is a stupid plan. It is too awkward and too error-prone to be secure. You have to keep doing it every time you get a visitor.

Another problem is people in your own family, especially children. You can't watch them every minute.

 

[azazel1024]

Err, no. Since you have to select each network to share, if your buddy connects to your SSID using the password, he would have to consciously enable it, for him to be able to share out your network. If he connected to your network using wifisense because you have wifisense enabled for one of your windows 10 machines, he cannot then share it out. Only if he has the actual SSID and password could he share it out and he would have to select the network and choose to share out that specific network.

Same thing with your kids.

Do I love it? No, but it isn't some rampant security hole. What is a bigger security hole is that Windows 10 (maybe earlier version?) by default will connect to open wifi networks. Because that isn't a security threat.

One thing I would be a little happier with is if MS, Apple, et al and wifi standards bodies got together and developed a real Wifi credential standard. Yes, RADIUS and all that, but I'd like to see a guest credential standard created. No more "guest SSIDs", just one SSID and the router (or a separate server if you choose) can handle credentialing. You want a full user, add their credential. You want a guest user all they need is the password for the network. Guests get network isolation, full users do not. Have credential age outs if you want. Even have guest credential age outs if you want to enable limited time access.

 

[htismaqe]

No, it isn't a "rampant" security hole. But it's still yet another possible attack vector, whether by human error or malicious code, that can be exploited. You'd think that Microsoft would be cognizant of this given their track record with security.

 

[sfx2000]

I'm sure there are good reasons why MS deployed WiSense, I think the major concern is that users are opted-in as a default, and no clear explanation as to why and how it works.

It's similar to other functionality that is part of Win10 as the default opt-ins...

Primary User Account - the default has one use their MS account (Outlook.com, XBoxLive, etc) - nice idea perhaps, esp. if one has a desktop/laptop and a tablet, as an example, to be able to sync settings, and perhaps services access.

The downside is now everything you do on that User Account may be tracked by MS - which can then target ads and services based on those usage patterns.

Some folks might not like this...

That's just a small thing - but one of many...

One can opt out of many of these tracking services - but it's a bit of work, and has to be done with each user account on the machine...

For example - create a local user account - go into Settings, go thru 13 screens of stuff to opt-out, and then, go to a web site and opt-out there... again, this is for each account on the machine..

And then, one might reconsider using Cortana - because it is always listening, waiting to answer your questions...

And then there's Edge - very nice browser... but... gotta opt-out there as well...

And then there's skype - yep, probably consider using SkypeID vs. Microsoft Account...

All told - I'm pretty impressed with Win10 as an OS - but they've played fast and loose with user privacy on this release, much more so than they have in the past.

 

[RMerlin]

All told - I'm pretty impressed with Win10 as an OS - but they've played fast and loose with user privacy on this release, much more so than they have in the past.

Microsoft has a FAQ specific to Wifi Sense. I must admit I'm still unclear as to how it exactly works after reading that FAQ.

One problem is the lack of clear and complete information. There's a lot of FUD floating around already, so it's hard to distinguish the REAL issues (like potential unwanted sharing of Wifi credentials) from those that are not a real problem (or have been already there fort the past 10 years, such as SmartScreen). Earlier today I ran into a guide that advised people to disable Smart Screen and Cloud Checks in Windows Defender. Because, you know, it's better to leak your information to a malware author than to Microsoft...

Considering the amount of malware the average user (as opposed to an advanced user like you and I), I'd rather see those security features enabled by default for everyone.

For many of the newer services and features, people will have to chose between complete privacy, or obtaining those cloud-enhanced services, which will require you sharing some kind of info for these to work. Just like you have to provide your actual query to Bing/Google/whatever for them to do a search for you. After the popularity of Siri, a lot of people want something like Cortana. Well, can't make an omelet without breaking eggs - how do you expect Cortana to work if it can't access the necessary information?

 

[htismaqe]

I know it's off-topic, but I find it hilarious that MS thinks so much of it's Halo franchise that it named the Windows personal assistant after a secondary character in a video game...

 

[RMerlin]

I know it's off-topic, but I find it hilarious that MS thinks so much of it's Halo franchise that it named the Windows personal assistant after a secondary character in a video game...

Actually, it was the fans who asked for it, and ultimately convinced them to name it that way. They mentioned it a while ago.

 

[L&LD]

Doesn't matter what she's called. The day I talk to a 'device' without a person on the other end, commit me.

So annoying in public when others are doing it.

Actually, it was the fans who asked for it, and ultimately convinced them to name it that way. They mentioned it a while ago.

 

[RMerlin]

Doesn't matter what she's called. The day I talk to a 'device' without a person on the other end, commit me.

git commit L\&LD -m "Talks to machines"
git push

But seriously, I wouldn't mind getting in my living room, and telling my media center to start playing the latest episode of "XYZ" - much faster than fumbling with the remote (which is quite sluggish with the NAS's IR receiver).

 

[L&LD]

Lol... I've been coded...

In the privacy of your own space, you're the king and can do whatever pleases you.

But in any demo of 'look how easy this is to do in a real environment' that I've been subjected to, it is far easier to find the program you need and do what you want on any device out there.

git commit L\&LD -m "Talks to machines"
git push

But seriously, I wouldn't mind getting in my living room, and telling my media center to start playing the latest episode of "XYZ" - much faster than fumbling with the remote (which is quite sluggish with the NAS's IR receiver).

 

[sfx2000]

Microsoft has a FAQ specific to Wifi Sense. I must admit I'm still unclear as to how it exactly works after reading that FAQ.

One problem is the lack of clear and complete information. There's a lot of FUD floating around already, so it's hard to distinguish the REAL issues (like potential unwanted sharing of Wifi credentials) from those that are not a real problem (or have been already there fort the past 10 years, such as SmartScreen). Earlier today I ran into a guide that advised people to disable Smart Screen and Cloud Checks in Windows Defender. Because, you know, it's better to leak your information to a malware author than to Microsoft...

Considering the amount of malware the average user (as opposed to an advanced user like you and I), I'd rather see those security features enabled by default for everyone.

I tend to agree - WiSense can be a good thing, especially the 98 percent of people that don't even know this site exists...

MS could have done better on the setup screens explaining what it is, and isn't, and allow the user to opt-in, rather than just assuming it would be ok - same with the rest - preferably in plain language and not a 12,000 word EULA that the lawyers need to have.

Same with many of the Privacy Related Features - again, plain language and allow the user to say yes or no...

As it is - most people click thru things, not understanding how they may put there info, and what MS (or any other Provider/OS/etc...) can and will do with that info...

 

[System Error Message]

wisense sounds like a useless feature. I prefer to use RADIUS instead and set up my own services including vpn server instead of relying on the cloud and such. This is why i prefer having non consumer routers like pfsense, routerOS because you can install adblock plus on pfsense while routerOS has a lot of impressive features that lets you compensate for all these devices tethered to companies and data collection. Home networks are still vulnerable to pineapple hacks and man in middle attacks despite all the new expensive AC wifi routers out there whereas i've seen cisco security articles from years ago on how to prevent all these vulnerabilities from LAN which can also be applied to routerOS too.

I think MS should focus on making the OS more secure and stable instead of adding more features for the brainless. They really need to improve their network stack too because in some cases you have to disable and enable the NIC and the network stack can also fail when given crushing loads requiring a restart.

 

[azazel1024]

The problem is you are in the 1% of users. They don't care a whole lot about you, they care about the other 99%. Heck, if I was running a business I wouldn't care much about the 1% of my users either, I'd go where the money is and target the other 99%.

At least in my experience, with the exception of bad network drivers (my tablet), I haven't had a network stack issue in Windows since...Vista I think? 7, 8 and 8.1 have all worked great without any networking issues that I could pin on the network stack. I've seen people with issues, but a lot of times it was a corrupted registry that was causing it because of "stuff" and just needed a full on reinstall (often times malware, adware, bloatware, other applications installed and improperly removed, etc. that eventually just corrupted the heck out of the registry).