How to get full house coverage

[flowrider]

Now I have read the article on SMB regarding whole house coverage but I have some specific questions about my situation.
I have a 3 story house that is fully wired with Cat5e. I'd like to put wireless on all 3 levels of the house and would like to know the best way to go about this.

My setup.
Modem (Actiontec T1200H - bridged) > pfSense box>switch>ethernet lines.
I currently have a 2nd gen. Airport Extreme and a TP-Link C7 ver.2 (that I may still return).

Am I correct in thinking that I can put an AP on each floor with the same SSID and password and I should be good? For some reason I'm thinking I need to have at least one wireless router acting as a wireless router. Am I better off going with a range extender like the Linksys RE6500 or a dedicated AP's like the D-Link DAP-1665?

Suggestions? I have a NAS and printer that my plug into whatever router or AP I get as well. I'd also like one particularly powerful wifi point on the middle floor so that I can get wifi in the backyard as well.

Price wise I'd like to stay around $120 Can for each AP and AC if possible but in reality that's me wasting money with future proofing I suppose since I don't have any AC devices yet and my ISP speed isn't that great yet. I suppose I can also get something like the Asus AC66u and install Asuswrt and make it an access point but that may be overkill? Of if I don't need a regular wireless router at all because my pfSense box is doing the routing, I can get 3 Ubiquiti AP points? Those look pretty slick and have nice reviews.

Thanks

 

[thiggins]

You need only one router per network. When you have multiple APs, coverage of each one is less critical.

Start with what you have, converting wirless routers to access points and go from there. APs connected via Ethernet are always preferred over range extenders because they don't have the 50% throughput reduction due to retransmission.

 

[flowrider]

Thanks Tim. I'll try changing the two I have to AP's first but how is hand off from one AP to another in this case? Are purpose built ones better for this reason?

What are your thoughts on the Ubiquiti N AP's?

 

[thiggins]

Smooth handoff depends more on client "stickyness". Some people like azazel have no problem using the same SSID. Others can't get clients to reliably roam. You just have to try and see.

There are smooth / fast handoff solutions baked into some AP systems that are not so client dependent. Ubiquiti is one. The recently reviewed Edimax APs are another. There are more.

My simple home setup uses a wall-plugged AP connected via Ethernet to light up an area that has a weak signal from my main router. Most time clients switch over ok. If we notice network response is slow, we just check the SSID and manually switch over. Even Ms. SmallNetBuilder can handle this and she expects stuff to "just work"!

 

[CaptainSTX]

There are extensive conversations on this site about using or not using the same SSID. I personally use a different SSIS for each of my three APs. If the wife complains about her connection speed on her wireless devices most of the time she can figure out to check and be sure she is on the nearest and therefore probably strongest radio signal.

Just be sure that each of your APs is on a different radio channel whatever way you set your network up.

 

[flowrider]

Thanks. So I'm trying to decide whether to keep the Archer C7 now and make it an AP or return it, spend a bit more money and get a 3 pack of the Ubiquiti AP's. They would be N standard but like I said, I don't have any AC devices as of yet anyhow.
My wife is the same way. She just wants it to work and I'd like the easiest way possible so that I can help her troubleshoot if I'm not home.

 

[azazel1024]

It is really up to you. 11ac routers are going to make older 11n devices faster though. SNB tested it and found it to be true. I've tested it and found it to be true. In generally 11ac routers make "everything" better.

Slight joking there on the last, I'd consider keeping the Archer C7 and getting another one or two, or a couple of Archer C5s or even something cheaper for whole house coverage. Ubiquity is also going to have the downside of 2.4GHz only as well as same channel. Unless they've changed their zero hand-off stuff recently, that last is mandatory for it to work. So if you just need it to work and have limited wireless performance needs, Ubiquity can be great. Their dual band unifi's are NOT cheap though if you want 5GHz for more performance.

With splitting up the channels on my router and access points I have significantly more wireless bandwidth across my house. My roaming does work just dandy. I know some people don't have success, but in most cases I think it works fine for most people, you won't know until you try.

 

[coxhaus]

What I have discovered using 2 AP is there needs to be enough distance between the APs for the signal to drop down so your client will switch. I have a long one story house and I run one AP in the front and one in the back. By the time I walk to the back the signal strength drops down pretty low so my laptop will switch to the back AP. This is using 2.4 GHz same SSID and different channels.

I am playing with 5GHz but I don’t really have a plan yet. I am not sure I will be able to get by using only 2 APs using 5GHz.

 

[flowrider]

Thanks for your help everyone. When I was reading up on the Ubiquitis I was very impressed with the implementation of the APs but not impressed that it was only 2.4. I love how simple the setup appears to be and the PoE.

I am pretty impressed with the C7's overall speed but not their UI. One question if using routers as AP points is how you access them once installed on the network. Do you set them up first then put them in the correct location? Give them a unique IP? Is it okay to mix and match routers (AC, single/dual band) because I also have an older single band Airport Extreme that I could use.

 

[stevech]

Routers as AP... yes, you connect to the router/AP with a PC, set it up (static LAN IP, WPA2, password, ssid, channel)
then connect the repurposed-as-AP device to the LAN. An AP's LAN IP is used only to admin it; not used for traffic passing.
There's a FAQ on all this on the main page of SNB

 

[flowrider]

Routers as AP... yes, you connect to the router/AP with a PC, set it up (static LAN IP, WPA2, password, ssid, channel)
then connect the repurposed-as-AP device to the LAN. An AP's LAN IP is used only to admin it; not used for traffic passing.
There's a FAQ on all this on the main page of SNB

Thanks for the info. I'll check the FAQ. A lot to learn!

 

[flowrider]

My local store has the TP-Link C2 and the Netgear R7000 on sale right now for $65 and $180 respectively. As they're going to be used as an AP point is there any use in getting the R7000? More power?

Or I suppose I could split the difference and just get another C7 for $109.

 

[thiggins]

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basi...onvert-a-wireless-router-into-an-access-point

 

[azazel1024]

What kind of clients do you have? The R7000 is an AC1900 device, so you can connect at a theoretical 600Mbps on 2.4GHz and 1300Mbps on 5GHz, supposing you have an 11ac client that is 3:3, which is unlikely. Most clients are 1:1 or 2:2, and most do not implement turboQAM in 2.4GHz. So realistically, you are looking at most clients being able to link at 150/300Mbps on 2.4GHz or 433/867Mbps on 5GHz if they are 11ac.

If you have any 2 stream clients, like in a laptop or something, I would look at a minimum of an AC1200 product, like the Archer C5 (which is slightly cheaper than the C7 right now). Not sure where you are seeing the C7 for $109. Currently on Amazon it is $99, with the C5 being $89. Or the C8 is $109. I'd prefer the C8 over the C5 or C7, as the UI is updated/much better. I also believe that the performance is slightly better on the C8, but I am not sure that SNB testing actually backs that up. It does have the advantage that it's antenna are external dual band, where as the current C7 and C5 have external 5GHz, but internal 2.4GHz antenna.

So if you wanted to upgrade the antenna, on the C8 it'll upgrade both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. On the C7/5, it will only upgrade 5GHz performance. I personally swapped the 2/3dBi antennas on my C8 to 5dBi antennas and saw some very nice performance gains (10-20% on 5GHz at most distances and close to 30% faster at long range. On 2.4GHz I saw about 10-20% gain at medium to long range). The C8 also has beamforming, which might see some modest gains over the C7 in real world implementations (as opposed to test chambers, but dunno there).

If all of your clients are single stream (IE phones/tablets/laptops with cheap adapters), then the C2 is perfect.

 

[coxhaus]

I would stagger the wireless devices so they have the most distance between them unless you end up with a dead spot.

I am setting outside working from my picnic table using my guest wireless as I write this.

 

[flowrider]

What kind of clients do you have? The R7000 is an AC1900 device, so you can connect at a theoretical 600Mbps on 2.4GHz and 1300Mbps on 5GHz, supposing you have an 11ac client that is 3:3, which is unlikely. Most clients are 1:1 or 2:2, and most do not implement turboQAM in 2.4GHz. So realistically, you are looking at most clients being able to link at 150/300Mbps on 2.4GHz or 433/867Mbps on 5GHz if they are 11ac.

If you have any 2 stream clients, like in a laptop or something, I would look at a minimum of an AC1200 product, like the Archer C5 (which is slightly cheaper than the C7 right now). Not sure where you are seeing the C7 for $109. Currently on Amazon it is $99, with the C5 being $89. Or the C8 is $109. I'd prefer the C8 over the C5 or C7, as the UI is updated/much better. I also believe that the performance is slightly better on the C8, but I am not sure that SNB testing actually backs that up. It does have the advantage that it's antenna are external dual band, where as the current C7 and C5 have external 5GHz, but internal 2.4GHz antenna.

So if you wanted to upgrade the antenna, on the C8 it'll upgrade both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. On the C7/5, it will only upgrade 5GHz performance. I personally swapped the 2/3dBi antennas on my C8 to 5dBi antennas and saw some very nice performance gains (10-20% on 5GHz at most distances and close to 30% faster at long range. On 2.4GHz I saw about 10-20% gain at medium to long range). The C8 also has beamforming, which might see some modest gains over the C7 in real world implementations (as opposed to test chambers, but dunno there).

If all of your clients are single stream (IE phones/tablets/laptops with cheap adapters), then the C2 is perfect.

I'll have a mixture of clients. We're getting new phones this year, likely android and a iPhone 6, and will have a new Macbook Pro in a month or so. The prices I quoted are very similar as they are in Canadian. Thanks for your advice. I'm thinking that the R7000 will be overkill since I'm not really using any it's routing abilities. I didn't think of the C8. The updated UI is nice as well as 5GHz performance.

 

[flowrider]

I would stagger the wireless devices so they have the most distance between them unless you end up with a dead spot.

I am setting outside working from my picnic table using my guest wireless as I write this.

My house is long with a great room on the main floor of the house towards the back of the house. I'm going to put an AP there so it should serve the backyard fairly well. I'll put the other APs on the first floor and basements at the opposite ends. I may need to put one in the garage as well but we'll see how the other AP's cover first.

 

[stevech]

My house is long with a great room on the main floor of the house towards the back of the house. I'm going to put an AP there so it should serve the backyard fairly well. I'll put the other APs on the first floor and basements at the opposite ends. I may need to put one in the garage as well but we'll see how the other AP's cover first.

so you have a way to get cat5 cable to these AP locations? Or use IP over power wiring as a lesser alternative?
This means you are prudently not planning on WDS repeaters (range extenders)?

I'd use low cost 11n devices for garage/outdoors. I use an ASUS RT-N12/d1, $35. It has a nice AP mode which makes it simpler.

 

[flowrider]

so you have a way to get cat5 cable to these AP locations? Or use IP over power wiring as a lesser alternative?
This means you are prudently not planning on WDS repeaters (range extenders)?

I'd use low cost 11n devices for garage/outdoors. I use an ASUS RT-N12/d1, $35. It has a nice AP mode which makes it simpler.

My new house is wired fully with Cat5e. It was a selling point for me!!
In the garage I'll either use the old Airport extreme or use a cheap N router like you suggested. Ideally I'd be able to maybe use the wireless off the Actiontec T1200H since it will be housed in the garage by the smart panel. I just don't think I'll be able to access my NAS, printer, etc if I'm on the modem/routers wireless which is a bummer. The range is so bad on those modem/routers that I won't have to worry about interference anyhow!

 

[azazel1024]

My new house is wired fully with Cat5e. It was a selling point for me!!
In the garage I'll either use the old Airport extreme or use a cheap N router like you suggested. Ideally I'd be able to maybe use the wireless off the Actiontec T1200H since it will be housed in the garage by the smart panel. I just don't think I'll be able to access my NAS, printer, etc if I'm on the modem/routers wireless which is a bummer. The range is so bad on those modem/routers that I won't have to worry about interference anyhow!

Why wouldn't you be able to? So long as it is setup as the router and everything else are setup as wireless access points, there should be no issues with access to LAN services.