How to get full house coverage

[stevech]

From trying to help folks with their Apple WiFi products, esp. for interoperability, I learned that I'll take a pass on Apple WiFi.
My opinion and nothing more.

 

[coxhaus]

From what I have seen recently I am not sure Apple supports WPA2 correctly on their iPhones. Their iPads seem to work well but I have had to fall back to WPA to support the iPhones.

 

[L&LD]

I fail to see how Apple is "hyper-proprietary" with regards to Wifi access points - they comply with Standards - they do have their bonjour/mDNS stuff (and they don't play well with uPNP), but for AP/Client connectivity, they're no different than any other client...

I have to agree with stevech. Apple is not my favorite client to work with when setting up or optimizing a router. More handholding necessary than needed for any other device(s).

Customers are a little more than miffed when I 'give up' after a few minutes and blame their beloved apple manufacturer.

 

[azazel1024]

They work okay in my experience, but the setup is annoying because they go way off "standard" for what a lot of things are called. After having "played with" probably 20 different routers from at least 5 different manufacturers as well as half a dozen access points from a couple of manufacturers, setting up my Airport Express in wired only mode, with wireless disabled and routing disabled, instead of the usual 4-5 minutes it takes me to setup a router in to AP mode, or set it with my prefered router settings if it is going to act as a router took me probably 15 minutes to figure it all out with the aid of internet searchs being required too.

Also hyper annoying that the only way to admin them is through the airport utility or iDevice. Why there can't just be a admin webpage...

 

[sfx2000]

That can cut both ways

I actually find Airports easy to setup and manage, but perhaps that due to years of experience working with them in multiple environments...

I find not having a built in Web Server and Admin Page a plus - when managing 20 of them, it becomes tedious - and not having a webserver running is much better from a security perspective

I do find that the current Mac desktop version (6.x) is not as handy as the older 5.6 branch (which can still be used for Windows, and with some clever hacking to work on current OSX) - 5.6 is as good as anything out there in the SOHO space...

Anyways, it's just a different environment - it's like being someone that is very used to how Linksys for example, organizes their parameter adminstration vs how Netgear or Asus does... they all get the job done, and do it well, but takes time to dig around the GUI to find things...

Airport Utility is no different there...

 

[sfx2000]

From trying to help folks with their Apple WiFi products, esp. for interoperability, I learned that I'll take a pass on Apple WiFi.
My opinion and nothing more.

totally cool with that

Apple hasn't done themselves any favors recently with iOS 8 and later - looks like however, 8.3 might be a winner - couple of days into it, and it seems to have fixed most of the problems that people have had... same goes with 10.10.3 for the desktop OS...

But as a couple of people have mentioned - Apple has a certain way of doing things - but it's important to know and understand how their gear works, because if you're freelancing or consulting (or a network manager), those devices are out there, and there are a lot of them.

Client issues aside, I do find Airports to be some of the most robust and stable AP/routers out there in the SOHO space, with the least number of issues to be solved.. they may not be the absolute fastest or feature rich, but most of my clients prioritize the fact that the network just works...

 

[L&LD]

sfx2000, just as a counterpoint to your posts I'd like to add the following.

1) Nothing stops anyone from downloading Airport Utility and messing around if they can (passwords, of course). Therefore, not having a Web server and Admin page is not a security plus.

It is simply apple locking down their products as much as they can and making it easy for them to remove or add features as they see fit with no input at all from their customers.

2) The very people that would try to get me to 'buy into' an airport express for the very fact that it has just worked for the past few years are the same ones telling me what they missed in performance when they buy almost any other router.

And humorously and almost invariably, they would then relate stories of how the network and / or the time machine function would not work in a seemingly random manner.


While some did miss the simplicity of the apple hardware, most were glad to be freed from it while gaining range, throughput and indeed, reliability in return for a few extra things to learn and need to do, occasionally.

 

[sfx2000]

Valid comments - everyone is entitled to their opinions, I know have plenty of my own...

I respect yours - and the collective group as well - the wealth of knowledge and experience here makes this a great community, and we all benefit from the conversations

sfx

 

[sfx2000]

Anyways - getting back to the OP's original post...

I have a 3 story house that is fully wired with Cat5e. I'd like to put wireless on all 3 levels of the house and would like to know the best way to go about this.

Am I correct in thinking that I can put an AP on each floor with the same SSID and password and I should be good?

Suggestions? I have a NAS and printer that my plug into whatever router or AP I get as well. I'd also like one particularly powerful wifi point on the middle floor so that I can get wifi in the backyard as well.

Depends on budget - but if you have the pfSense box - I would recommend it be the central focus - it's a great package, and has capabilities that most Router/AP's might have, but pfSense will do a much better job of it... and pfSense is great for VPN client/server support as well. Keep the NAS near by with a GIGe switch, and that's all shiny and done.. let the pfSense manage the DNS/DHCP/VPN connectivity, it's very good at those tasks.

For Wifi, depends on the layout of the house, and more importantly, where people tend to congregate and use WiFi, an AP per floor is reasonable... as close to the middle of the floor as possible perhaps, but again, depends on where people are...

I would recommend common SSID's and passphrases across all of them (might consider for dual band using a different, but still common SSID for the 5Ghz, but that's an option).

Reason for the common SSID's and passphrases is ease of client setup and maintenance... it can help also with roaming as it's a layer 2 handoff rather the break/make from one SSID to the other, but some clients don't roam very well.

For frequency plan - in 2.4GHz, since it's three AP's, keep it simple with 1/6/11 - which AP/Channel depends on what you see on each floor... tools like inSSIDer can help out there. For 5GHz, I'm thinking a hi/lo/hi channel plan - let's say 149/48/149... see what works best there, hard to tell from reading a post on the forum.

For the patio/backyard - I would probably just drop in a repeater on the outside wall closest to where folks are there.... or a 2.4GHz b/g/n AP if you have a Ethernet drop close by - don't need dual-band out there, as the emphasis is more range than speed one would think...

You can mix-match vendors on the AP's, or keep them common - I would recommend keeping common, but it's not a hard requirement - use what you have, and buy what you need

sfx

 

[azazel1024]

I will say one plus of the airports and the utility is, they don't have to be the same IP as the rest of the LAN for you to manage them. Which is a very nice perk. That and propogating profiles is easy if you have a shed load of them on a network.

That said, still a bit too "different" for my taste without any good reason why they are or why there isn't also a webadmin page. The hardware itself is pretty nice, I'll deffinitely give that.

At least for the older 11n dual band express, probably about the best "wall plug" format router/AP you can buy still (especially when you factor in how cheap you can get them). Though kind of limited with only a single fast ethernet port.

 

[azazel1024]

For outdoor, I'd suggest one of two options.

Get something like this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VYGMF2/?tag=snbforums-20 some powerline adapters and your own router/AP to put in it. Or run direct bury rated cat5e out there with power line injectors to power it.

Or get something like an Engenius ENS500 which is ready to rock without an enclosure. Pretty reasonably priced. It is what I am looking at once I have the chance to run the 100ft of direct bury Cat5e/6 that I need to get one in the location I need in my front yard. You can get a signal outside by just placing an AP/router on an outside wall near your patio area, but depending on wall construction, you can be losing from 18-30dB of signal by punching through an exterior wall. Which is still plenty of signal if you are sitting on a patio 10ft from the AP, but especially on the higher end of attenuation (IE metal siding, or brick walls) you might be lucky to get a usable connection 30-40ft from the AP.

 

[sfx2000]

At least for the older 11n dual band express, probably about the best "wall plug" format router/AP you can buy still (especially when you factor in how cheap you can get them). Though kind of limited with only a single fast ethernet port.

Too bad they're only single band though - either 5Ghz or 2.4 - the newer one is simultaneous dual-band, which is pretty good, but I did like the first gen 802.11n Express for travel...

 

[coxhaus]

totally cool with that

Apple hasn't done themselves any favors recently with iOS 8 and later - looks like however, 8.3 might be a winner - couple of days into it, and it seems to have fixed most of the problems that people have had... same goes with 10.10.3 for the desktop OS...

But as a couple of people have mentioned - Apple has a certain way of doing things - but it's important to know and understand how their gear works, because if you're freelancing or consulting (or a network manager), those devices are out there, and there are a lot of them.

Client issues aside, I do find Airports to be some of the most robust and stable AP/routers out there in the SOHO space, with the least number of issues to be solved.. they may not be the absolute fastest or feature rich, but most of my clients prioritize the fact that the network just works...

Thats for the info. I loaded 8.3 on my wife's iPad and iPhone and will try WiFi again to see if problems are fixed. The funny thing is 8.3 broke the ping APP I downloaded from the APP store. It just times out now on both the iPad and iPhone. I guess they need to release a fix for ping.
PS
It just took the iPad a little bit as it is working now like yesterday. Maybe the reboot helped. I don't know but it is working.

 

[azazel1024]

Too bad they're only single band though - either 5Ghz or 2.4 - the newer one is simultaneous dual-band, which is pretty good, but I did like the first gen 802.11n Express for travel...

Well, yes, sadly there is that.

I've been kind of tempted to take a first gen, along with a travel router and USB LTE modem to bodge it up in my car.

That way I can connect to a vehicle 5GHz WLAN for airplay and still get out to the internet at the same time. Plus, longer range as I higher gain on most USB LTE modems from what I have seen (and some of course support external antennas).

Just not sure it is worth the on going cost (because, LTE modem = having to pay extra monthly fee, even if it is attached to my current wireless account, sigh). I do think it would be a fun project though.

 

[sfx2000]

Well, yes, sadly there is that.

I've been kind of tempted to take a first gen, along with a travel router and USB LTE modem to bodge it up in my car.

That way I can connect to a vehicle 5GHz WLAN for airplay and still get out to the internet at the same time. Plus, longer range as I higher gain on most USB LTE modems from what I have seen (and some of course support external antennas).

Just not sure it is worth the on going cost (because, LTE modem = having to pay extra monthly fee, even if it is attached to my current wireless account, sigh). I do think it would be a fun project though.

I suppose that's one way...

Alternately - I have an ATT UnitePro, which is a dual-band LTE MiFi type of device, and I just use Bluetooth for my audio (my car as a decent built-in BT HFK/Audio integration)... I've seen the UnitePro's on eBay and Amazon for under $100 USD, and they are excellent performers as 2-stream, concurrent dual-band (and it can also support guest network as well).

Add a pre-paid ATT SIM, and go month to month as needed...

 

[azazel1024]

I suppose that's one way...

Alternately - I have an ATT UnitePro, which is a dual-band LTE MiFi type of device, and I just use Bluetooth for my audio (my car as a decent built-in BT HFK/Audio integration)... I've seen the UnitePro's on eBay and Amazon for under $100 USD, and they are excellent performers as 2-stream, concurrent dual-band (and it can also support guest network as well).

Add a pre-paid ATT SIM, and go month to month as needed...

My 2005 car doesn't even have power windows...AC is the only option it carries :-D

Not even a mini-jack for the stereo (that didn't start until the 2006 model, so I'd need to add that to the stereo at least). Goggle Fi as Goggles MVNO service apparently is going to be called is being rumored to be "pay what you use", which if the prices are pretty reasonable, might be the perfect way to go for occasional use cellular service. In my car I'd imagine I probably don't use 200MB a month, but it would be nice to have it (instead of losing internet connection by connecting to a "WAN connection less" WLAN network, or trying to bodge with putting my phone in to hotspot mode and trying to connect my WLAN to it).