Improving my Bufferbloat score

[AndrewJacob]

Hi everyone,

I currently have a home setup with 2 AX86U in mesh, on wired backhaul (cat 6) running Merlin 386.7_2 software. My internet connection is a 400/50 "hybrid" cable internet.
I recently ran a bufferbloat test on my hardwired Windows 10 computer (connected directly via Cat6 to the main AX86U) and got some average results and was wondering if there are some quick and easy steps to improve my score with my current setup.
Here are my results.

Link to my bufferbloat results

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Andrew

 

[heysoundude]

You may need to consider engaging a QoS algorithm on your router.
But that is the second step in the process - you have to ensure that your LAN MTU matches your WAN connection's capabilities FIRST.
It's counter intuitive, but for a better/more stable/smooth connection/experience, you may have to slow down the speeds with which your clients can connect to the internet as a whole, but only by 5% or so with a QoS inplementation...after you're sure that there isn't a bottleneck of package sizes coming in/going out.
Lots of threads on here, especially in the Add-Ons subforum. your DL speed is outside the range of CakeQoS, so FlexQoS would be the go-to, if you want to go over and above what the "stock" stuff does.

AFTERTHOUGHT- one way to monitor that your QoS etc settings are correct/proper is to use an addon like spdMerlin: you've hit the bullseye when packet loss goes to and stays at 0%. My daily average on packet loss over the past 30 days is 0.34% (of just over 1TB throughput) according to spdMerlin...clearly I have some tweaking to do ;-p

 

[alchemy]

I love CakeQoS, and it's already built in to Merlin as a QoS option!
Cake maxes out around 350 on Asus routers, but even with more bandwidth available I'd still personally use CakeQoS.
I'd just set is at 350-380 then configure the other settings (try cable preset for you, run some bloat tests to test optimal values etc), and be happy that you wont have to worry or look at QoS ever again after (hopefully).

www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=0415bcda-cab2-436f-88d2-1b12bb3744bb

 

[Tech9]

one way to monitor that your QoS etc settings are correct/proper is to use an addon like spdMerlin

spdMerlin is one of the scripts I would recommend removing immediately, if it's installed. It hammers the WAN connection multiple times a day for absolutely no reason effectively reducing user's Internet experience in the process. In this very moment of "monitoring" the latency jumps sky high.

 

[AndrewJacob]

Thanks all, so I am still a bit confused about what you recommend. As an FYI, I'll be upgrading my connection to 1.5Gbit fiber optic next week, so if reducing the speed to 350 is the solution, I am wondering if there are alternatives? Right now, I am using the built in QOS that's in the QOS menu where I set priorities for devices. Not sure if that has anything to do with it and if I should be doing things differently?

 

[Tech9]

I'll be upgrading my connection to 1.5Gbit fiber optic next week

This is the best QoS - ISP upgrade. Upgrade and you don't need router's QoS attempts anymore.

 

[AndrewJacob]

Thanks @Tech9 . So basically once I get my upgrade, you suggest removing all QOS considerations from the Merlin software and that should solve the issues and my bufferbloat score is likely to be different at that point?
Obviously I'll try it out, but I'm curious.

 

[AndrewJacob]

FYI the option I'm using is "Adaptive QOS"

 

[Tech9]

Fast fiber ISP line doesn't need QoS. If you enable it on your router, in any form - the WAN speed will suffer. Increased CPU load will translate in added latency. Get the fiber installed and test. For best results disable all TrendMicro components and try testing again. Home routers are underpowered for Gigabit. Some scripts may impact your Internet experience. I don't know what you are running on your router.

 

[heysoundude]

Thanks all, so I am still a bit confused about what you recommend. As an FYI, I'll be upgrading my connection to 1.5Gbit fiber optic next week, so if reducing the speed to 350 is the solution, I am wondering if there are alternatives? Right now, I am using the built in QOS that's in the QOS menu where I set priorities for devices. Not sure if that has anything to do with it and if I should be doing things differently?

You needed something to do while waiting for your speed upgrade to come to pass? lol...I guess getting a bit of a learning experience is never a bad thing

 

[AndrewJacob]

Haha not at all. I just figured that people with weaker routers and connection than what I have now were getting A+ so thought I could do something to optimize my router system through settings. I figured that I can't get full 1.5gbit anyways so let's make it as smooth as possible and fine tune my settings. But I'm not quite sure how to do that.

 

[ugandy]

i have symmetric 1Gbps fiber and am 99.9% fine without QoS , but if a client maxes out the upload, the other clients see higher pings... maybe isp related?

 

[cptnoblivious]

i have symmetric 1Gbps fiber and am 99.9% fine without QoS , but if a client maxes out the upload, the other clients see higher pings... maybe isp related?

If you're maxing out the upload, why would you expect the pings to be the same as when the link has lots of capacity remaining?

 

[ugandy]

If you're maxing out the upload, why would you expect the pings to be the same as when the link has lots of capacity remaining?

i meant that if one client maxes the line the other client's downloads come to a crawl. i think it is due to the saturation stopping some ack signal for the other clients comms. with qos you can save some overhead bandwidth for those network ack packets.
only happened with my PC downloading from steam

 

[Tech9]

i meant that if one client maxes the line the other client's downloads come to a crawl

Any way to limit the download speed for this client? It will solve your "problem" on Gigabit symmetric ISP.

 

[ugandy]

Any way to limit the download speed for this client? It will solve your "problem" on Gigabit symmetric ISP.

we survived ;-)

 

[Tech9]

Use hardware limiters. Connect this PC through 100Mbps switch. Ping problem solved and you just made time for your favorite drink.

 

[Kingp1n]

I love CakeQoS, and it's already built in to Merlin as a QoS option!
Cake maxes out around 350 on Asus routers, but even with more bandwidth available I'd still personally use CakeQoS.
I'd just set is at 350-380 then configure the other settings (try cable preset for you, run some bloat tests to test optimal values etc), and be happy that you wont have to worry or look at QoS ever again after (hopefully).
View attachment 45093
www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=0415bcda-cab2-436f-88d2-1b12bb3744bb

You mind sharing your additonal CAKE QoS set up? Or do you just use the built-in CAKE without any mods? Thanks!

 

[Crimliar]

The best way I've found to set up CAKE QoS is to use AutoBW in SpdMerlin to set the thresholds - but only have SpdMerlin run 10 times per night between 3AM and 5AM (custom schedule).

*This can still go wrong if say the xDSL modem here resyncs after this times.
**Worth remembering that if no one is gaming or intensively streaming this might give you an A+ score on bufferbloat, but you do lose what could be significant bandwidth!
***On xDSL if you REALLY want to tank your bufferbloat score, use an xDSL modem/router in modem-only mode connected to a router, it'll still use ALL everything it has to buffer your requests. The result is possibly an "F" in bufferbloat!

 

[AndrewJacob]

Alright so I just got the 1.5 Gbit pure fibre connection and when I test from the Sagemcomm router/modem, it shows a speed of 1.6Gbit down with 1Gbit up. I connected the router to my first AX86U, to which the other mesh unit is hardwired through the 2.5Gbit connection and through which my main PC is connected via 1Gbit ethernet. I ran a few speed tests and here is an example of the speed I'm getting at the PC.

Bufferbloat test is weird in the sense that the upload function doesn't seem to work on the waveform site. I wonder why that is, but I end up with either an A+ or A score depending on when I run the test.
So my question would be, regardless of tests, what can I do to optimize my home network for responsiveness without really sacrificing speed for streaming/gaming? My setup also has to function as a home office for my wife and I, so we need as smooth as possible video calling and solid upload for dropping large files onto SharePoint sites etc.
Any recommendations for tweaking my settings (existing thread or your own recommendations)? I'm running the latest Merlin firmware.