Is 5GHz max conducted power controlled by firmware?

[Invisible Boy]

So... I have finally found out that my brand new GT-AX11000's weak 5GHz-1 is due to the Canadian 5GHz regulations. However, the 2018 update has increased the lower band's max conducted power from 200mW to 1W. I would assume since my router was manufactured in mid-2021 (version A1.1), it should take advantage of this new regulation but it doesn't, unfortunately. My question is, "Can the 5GHz max conducted output be increased by the firmware from 200mW to 1W?" If so, any chance this might be implemented by Merlin or Asus in the near future? I have contacted Asus tech supports in the past but the replies were always some random meaningless answers so I have given up contacting them.

 

[Tech Junky]

Firmware controls the HW but the config controls the settings if that makes sense.

Update the FW if there's one available / check for the setting / if not then do a hard reset and check again.

Still no dice then try a WRT an see if the option comes up.

 

[ColinTaylor]

"Can the 5GHz max conducted output be increased by the firmware from 200mW to 1W?"

Any changes to the output power of a particular model would have to go through the testing and validation process and then authorised by Canada's equivalent of the FCC. Only then could the change be implemented by Broadcom in their closed source wireless driver.

Even then it's unlikely the hardware in the router is capable of outputting that much power. The most I've seen these routers output is ~ 1W EIRP.

 

[Tech9]

I have finally found out that my brand new GT-AX11000's weak 5GHz-1 is due to the Canadian 5GHz regulations.

I see no 5GHz performance issues on lower channels. Control channel 36 works as well as channel 149. I'm in Canada.

 

[DJones]

Hm.. alright then. The more appropriate answer I guess is you are stuck with whatever country regulations is programmed in firmware and is legal. Wiki provides a decent chart of which channels allow 1w in Canada. However they tend to be in the UNII-3 / ISM bands which will penetrate less, but would be more adequate for outdoor operations.

What I’d say is position your router centre of the house or on the upper floor. If you have concrete or brick any router would struggle with 5Ghz wifi unfortunately not much you can do but add more routers.

 

[Tech9]

You don't need 1W radio, if the clients are all the same around 20mW. They will hear the router, but won't be able to reach back. Increasing Tx power in most cases doesn't increase the range. Wi-Fi is 2-way communication.

 

[DJones]

You don't need 1W radio, if the clients are all the same around 20mW. They will hear the router, but won't be able to reach back. Increasing Tx power in most cases doesn't increase the range. Wi-Fi is 2-way communication.

I don’t disagree. Point to point operations are where 1W is useful as both the sender and receiver can be setup the same. Which is why AIMesh uses the 1W UNII-3 bands only for its backhaul. (Could be other reasons also)

 

[Invisible Boy]

I see no 5GHz performance issues on lower channels. Control channel 36 works as well as channel 149. I'm in Canada.

That's strange because both my AC68U A2 and AX11000 A1.1 display the same behaviour where the lower band is 15-20dBm worse than the upper band regardless the distance. There is a thread on Asus forum where 5 individuals shared the same experience. Is it possible your router isn't the Canadian version?

 

[Tech9]

Which is why AIMesh uses the 1W UNII-3 bands only for its backhaul.

Up to 1W allowed doesn't mean automatically Asus is transmitting at 1W power. Most home routers are under 200mW, limited by power amps.

That's strange because both my AC68U and AX11000 display the same behaviour where the lower band

Perhaps Wi-Fi environment specific. All my test routers show about the same signal levels on upper/lower channels. I have some US model routers and they work exactly the same as CA models. May have some DFS differences, model specific. I have better throughput on lower channels and this is what my 4x access points Wi-Fi system is set to. My best 5GHz channel is 40 and best 2.4GHz channel is 4.

 

[DJones]

That's strange because both my AC68U A2 and AX11000 A1.1 display the same behaviour where the lower band is 15-20dBm worse than the upper band regardless the distance. There is a thread on Asus forum where 5 individuals shared the same experience. Is it possible your router isn't the Canadian version?

He can verify by typing wl country in ssh.

 

[Tech9]

All Asus routers I have are local Canadian version, with exception of T-Mobile one. Some Netgear/Linksys are also US versions.

 

[dlandiss]

You don't need 1W radio, if the clients are all the same around 20mW. They will hear the router, but won't be able to reach back. Increasing Tx power in most cases doesn't increase the range. Wi-Fi is 2-way communication.

Fortunately Wi-Fi communications are usually asymmetrical. If the uplink (client-to-router) is slower than the downlink, consider that much of time the uplink of a URL can result in the download of several pages or a whole movie.

Certainly there are symmetric scenarios, but I would not think they are in the majority. Weaker received signal is not an all-or-nothing situation, often it is faster-or-slower instead.

 

[Tech9]

If the uplink (client-to-router) is slower than the downlink

What if it doesn't exist, below -80/90dBm? What router's increased power will help you with?

 

[DJones]

What if it doesn't exist, below -80/90dBm? What router's increased power will help you with?

Let’s assume that the receiving device is able to hear the 1w router, but due to interference or distance the receiving device is not able to transmit enough power for the router to hear it. In that situation if no uplink bandwidth is getting to the router you won’t even connect. But if reduced bandwidth can make its way through the uplink then UDP, or QUIC connections may work fine to receive the routers data, but for the majority TCP connections will likely fail.

Technology’s like Beamforming, MU-MIMO, OFDMA UL/DL, Larger channel bandwidth may help minimally to reduce interference. However that does little to help with poor distance due to poor penetration of walls that 5ghz suffers from.

Ideally you want both devices transmit power to adjust under changing conditions 1w being the peak. Different configurations such as Half duplex vs Full duplex (MU-MIMO/OFDMA) also plays a part in how the radios need to listen/send.


Being able to router/device bond different frequency radios would be interesting say setting from router 2.4ghz as RX only and 5ghz as TX only so that 5ghz 1W could be used for better penetration of 5ghz. The device on the other end would need to be reverse of that.

Or they could just open more 2.4ghz spectrum. >_>

 

[Tech9]

What works better than single high-powered AP is multi-AP systems or directional AP's, depending on the needs.

 

[joegreat]

What works better than single high-powered AP is multi-AP systems or directional AP's, depending on the needs.

Yep, therefore I have 2 device setup in my (rather small) flat... - see footer!

 

[thiggins]

Technology’s like Beamforming, MU-MIMO, OFDMA UL/DL, Larger channel bandwidth may help minimally to reduce interference.

Of the technologies you cite, only beamforming might help reduce interference. Wider channels actually decrease signal-to-noise, which can result in higher packet error rate and more retries. MU-MIMO, which uses beamforming, and OFDMA are focused in increasing total available bandwidth, not reducing interference.

 

[dlandiss]

What if it doesn't exist, below -80/90dBm? What router's increased power will help you with?

Of course not. But the OP did not include that in his question. If the uplink signal is too weak the traditional solution is better antennas.

 

[got_milk]

Apologies for bumping a ~1 year old thread.

I just wanted to share that I've been having difficulty trying to understand why a 2x RT-AX86U in AiMesh has been struggling to provide similar (or better) coverage than an eero system it replaced and I have finally found my answer. It seems that in 2023 Broadcom's drivers (or at least the ones Asus incorporate into their firmware) still do not take into account the updated Canadian regulations and continue to limit output power on channels 36-48. I've been running a virtually "clean" setup (no firmware tweaks outside of the Quick Internet Setup) which auto-selects channel 36 for 5GHz and in certain places where the eero had no problem serving clients with acceptable 5GHz performance, the Asus has them dropping to 2.4GHz or sticking to a (painfully) slow 5GHz radio. Switched from auto channel select to 149 and it has made a world of difference - an instant 15dBm boost plus significantly improved measured throughput when not next to a router (+350Mbps in some locations!).

Hopefully this is helpful for anyone like me who's been searching Google like crazy to stumble upon the right keywords to lead them to this thread.

 

[Tech9]

It seems that in 2023 Broadcom's drivers (or at least the ones Asus incorporate into their firmware) still do not take into account the updated Canadian regulations and continue to limit output power on channels 36-48.

Perhaps not in all Asus products. RT-AC86U works well on both 36-48 and 149-161 channels. RT-AX86U works well on 149-161 only.

Where did you find the information about this?