is Synology right for my needs (vs DUI)? Network/NAS update

[EngChi]

Would welcome help and feedback as I am looking at network update/NAS upgrade (moving to a new house later this year)
What I currently have works as follows
I have DYI server I run with Windows 2012 Essentials ( 3770k CPU, 32 GB RAM) used for 3 functions
backup my 3 clients each running Windows 10 Pro
host openbox virtualized Windows 7 guest
domain controller
crashplan for ~100 GB of photos to the cloud
universal media server (http://www.universalmediaserver.com/)
i also backup this server to its own separate hard drive (built into Windows 2012 Essentials)
i also run a small Synology DS115j for additional backup and connect another 3TB drive to backup NAS
My storage needs are ~1 TB

My media consumption is from Amazon Fire TV and another openelec clients each connected to TV on various floors. These are likely to be replaced with Nvidia Shield TV appliance boxes for built in Kodi capabilities and PC->TV game streaming.

What I would like
simplify the current arrangement through consolidation
reduce over engineering i currently have
free up windows server hardware as backup to the main desktop

What I hope to have is a single NAS solution that is 'enough'
strong enough to support up to 2 VMs
DLNA streaming/transcoding if needed (do I need to buy plex)
cloud backup integration for key folder (primary need, protection again major disasters like fire)
ability to do 'bare bone' PC client restore (right now insert special USB, boot, connect to Windows server , pull image you want, come back with working PC)

Questions
How much of the below do I get 'out of the box' with Synology solutions?
How cost competitive is it the moment I start looking at decent amounts of memory (i.e. 8 GB)
What about being able to login with single account on multiple devices (what I use domain for)?

any other thoughts, comments, or questions? Am I limited to another DYU built?

I tried NAS selector tool but I either do not understand it fully (i.e. recommending 1 GB Ram solutions to me after mentioning virtualization) or do not understand how it comes to its results

 

[stevech]

Would welcome help and feedback as I am looking at network update/NAS upgrade (moving to a new house later this year)
What I currently have works as follows
I have DYI server I run with Windows 2012 Essentials ( 3770k CPU, 32 GB RAM) used for 3 functions
backup my 3 clients each running Windows 10 Pro
host openbox virtualized Windows 7 guest
domain controller
crashplan for ~100 GB of photos to the cloud
universal media server (http://www.universalmediaserver.com/)
i also backup this server to its own separate hard drive (built into Windows 2012 Essentials)
i also run a small Synology DS115j for additional backup and connect another 3TB drive to backup NAS
My storage needs are ~1 TB

My media consumption is from Amazon Fire TV and another openelec clients each connected to TV on various floors. These are likely to be replaced with Nvidia Shield TV appliance boxes for built in Kodi capabilities and PC->TV game streaming.

What I would like
simplify the current arrangement through consolidation
reduce over engineering i currently have
free up windows server hardware as backup to the main desktop

What I hope to have is a single NAS solution that is 'enough'
strong enough to support up to 2 VMs
DLNA streaming/transcoding if needed (do I need to buy plex)
cloud backup integration for key folder (primary need, protection again major disasters like fire)
ability to do 'bare bone' PC client restore (right now insert special USB, boot, connect to Windows server , pull image you want, come back with working PC)

Questions
How much of the below do I get 'out of the box' with Synology solutions?
How cost competitive is it the moment I start looking at decent amounts of memory (i.e. 8 GB)
What about being able to login with single account on multiple devices (what I use domain for)?

any other thoughts, comments, or questions? Am I limited to another DYU built?

I tried NAS selector tool but I either do not understand it fully (i.e. recommending 1 GB Ram solutions to me after mentioning virtualization) or do not understand how it comes to its results

yes to all with one thing I see
crashplan for ~100 GB of photos to the cloud

Crashplan can be made to run on Linux in Synology and others but I don't do it because I don't alter the OS at all in my NAS. I use its many utilities and tools and approved add-ons. I don't want to dork up a reliable NAS. QNAP may have an approved/supported Crashplan client for their very fine NAS but I doubt it is a good risk either.

There is a domain controller in Synology's NAS but as a SOHO user, I don't use it.

I have my Synology configured to backup VIP folders like family photos to (a) a 64GB SD card always plugged into the NAS; (b) Along with most all other folders, to a USB3 drive that I keep hidden; (c) to Adrive.com using a PC to copy from NAS; (d) now and then I copy VIP stuff to my USB3 key ring flash drive (32GB). Call me paranoid.

You can also, with Synology and QNAP, use the more complicated rsync or 3 other ways to backup to a server such as Amazon Web Services, or any rsync or WEBDAV server, etc.

 

[EngChi]

Thank you

Which model would you recommend for me to review? I have Win 7 guest which is currently configured for 3 GB of ram (not an issue on the 32 GB RAM server), all NAS solutions I see so far are total configuration less than that (or very expensive). what I may be missing?

 

[stevech]

I hesitate to recommend a specific QNAP or Synology for fear of stirring up controversy.
2+ years ago I considered them all and chose a DS212. If/when I buy a later one, it'll probably be another 2 bay and again, run in 2-volume mode, no RAID.

I don't need the capacity or cost of a 4 bay.

I also recommend buying on features, and not rocket speed since the LAN and file system interoperability constrain speed. And transcoding of video .. really piles on the cost. Better done by a client device at the TV.

Try to avoid buying a model using the very latest just-finished-beta-test software suite. No matter the vendor.

 

[sfx2000]

I hesitate to recommend a specific QNAP or Synology for fear of stirring up controversy.

Wouldn't worry about that - they're both strong players... DSM vs. QTS ain't Mac vs. Windows after all

 

[EngChi]

Thank you both - my problem is that all of this did not really moved me forward in making decisions on the above
- I still want the domain like ability of single login , resource model (AD or not). I think I am hearing that is something in Synology (and I have started reading it) but that is very different from AD
- I do not see any NAS that is not cost insane (vs DYI) for any basic virtualization option.

right now an AMD 8320E CPU + 16 GB ram + MB to run it + case+ CPU, all would fit well under $400. Anything I see in that area in NAS land can not run domain controller, can not run virtualization, and is extremely weak on CPU front.

Do major NAS vendor sell their OS? I would be willing to pay for it if that is an option as I want existing Synology integration and like the low key part of it (just do not like the amount of premium)

 

[kamina]

They don't sell the OS separately.

From my tests with Linux VM's on a Qnap 453S I would recommend keeping expectations low. I ran minecraft and agar io servers with very few users for my kids, but it's not really snappy. Remember even the faster NAS devices generally have pretty slow cpu's.

Maybe get a box for the VM's and use disk from the NAS?

Edit: And I'm comparing to work where we run thousands of VM's on several continents so could I'm the problem.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stevech]

Not the NAS CPU speed, it's the LAN speed (or WiFi to client), and the overhead of dissimilar file systems among Mac, Windows, Linux, mitigated by SMB.

Don't run VM applications on a NAS unless you have a super top end NAS. Use an applications server.

 

[stevech]

Thank you both - my problem is that all of this did not really moved me forward in making decisions on the above
- I still want the domain like ability of single login , resource model (AD or not). I think I am hearing that is something in Synology (and I have started reading it) but that is very different from AD
- I do not see any NAS that is not cost insane (vs DYI) for any basic virtualization option.

right now an AMD 8320E CPU + 16 GB ram + MB to run it + case+ CPU, all would fit well under $400. Anything I see in that area in NAS land can not run domain controller, can not run virtualization, and is extremely weak on CPU front.

Do major NAS vendor sell their OS? I would be willing to pay for it if that is an option as I want existing Synology integration and like the low key part of it (just do not like the amount of premium)

DIY - I didn't find any freeeware for DIY that was easy to admin but moreover, had the features I wanted.

NAS vendors for the SOHO/Consumer market don't sell their software unbundled.

If you can't afford a $200-300 NAS box plus drives (reused if need be), reset expectations!

VM belongs on a server, not a low cost NAS, of course.

 

[EngChi]

Thank you for all of the advice. I already have a server,and a low cost NAS deployed, and was wondering if there is enough of the convergence to make it worth, NAS with power lower enough and simple enough and yet strong enough to run virtualization and hardware assisted transcoding. It does not appear that such item exists yet, NAS is not powerful enough to do the work I need nor have capabilities I want (without Acronis as additional solution and a lot of compromises on the AD/domain front). NAS options that have some of that cost more than 5X of DYI would cost me and in my opinion poor value vs DYI. On a bright side, Intel is coming with next generation of 14nm 'Atoms', AMD coming with Zen so future will come in terms of the options- once both our out and settled I will see if that is enough to rebuild/retire current Haswell solution from its duties

 

[stevech]

Transcoding and VM need to be on a hot server, not a NAS>

 

[EngChi]

Steve, I appreciate your contribution, help and advice.

At the same time, respectfully, I think there is value in multiple opinions (which market responds to) - and stating X needs to be done on Y as a matter of fact may not be so. It is very similar in arrogance to stating 'the only NAS you need is USB hard drive' as it does the same thing.

Some people want a second copy of data (flash storage or DAS)
Some want central location for data to be shared throughout the house
Others want bare-bone restore, file history, etc capabilities
Some want centralized multimedia library with ability to stream, share, transcode to a variety of their consumption devices (Plex ,etc)
Cloud backup, DVRing incoming streams, etc - capabilities are varied (and still developing) ...

Whether it is called "true NAS" or "server" or something else is in the eye of the beholder. In my case, the market seems to be recognizing peoples needs beyond simple/stupid storage and responding to it with higher processing capacities and capabilities. Same Synology is calling out video transcoding and various grades of it on its website as selling point and asks for it within its NAS selector tool . My opinion is if that companies involved (Intel for the chipsets/CPU, Microsoft for their Win 2012 R2 Storage Server, etc) do not get too stupid/greedy with pricing, this may work. if they do get greedy and price it badly, those of us who build our own will continue to do so as much better value proposition

Thank you

 

[sfx2000]

Transcoding and VM need to be on a hot server, not a NAS

NAS boxes are turning into something different - and depending on the scale/scope of the vendor offering, then VM's (both Level 2 (KVM for example) or Containers (LXC/Docker) they're starting to become an option... in other words, something more than just a file server...

Depends on the capabilities, RAM, vendor implementation, etc...

 

[stevech]

Yeah, I know. But fast enough, RAM enough for serious transcoding, even hardware-offloaded, and VM loading, really makes for an expensive NAS in the family/SOHO/SMB context of this forum.

 

[kamina]

Sure NAS have more features then ever, and virtualisation is one of them.

Nobody is saying it won't work, just don't expect much without a top of the line box.

NAS are hood for IOP's, but the cpu's are slow with small cache, memory is not fast etc. Even if the app you run does not seem that cpu hungry it might do a lot of context switching which could be an issue.

Like I mentioned, a minecraft server with a few users works ok, go over a handfull and it slows down...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sfx2000]

Virtualization is one - Containers are another - some of the Vendors in their x86 based machines have recently added Docker/LXC support as well as KVM/QEMU - different means to a similar end...

 

[stevech]

Virtualization is one - Containers are another - some of the Vendors in their x86 based machines have recently added Docker/LXC support as well as KVM/QEMU - different means to a similar end...

Acronym overload alarm!!!

 

[sfx2000]

Acronym overload alarm!!!

Hehe - no doubt - but it's one of those things, if one doesn't know what they mean, they probably don't need them

 

[stevech]

KVM.. I know one old meaning

 

[slidermike]

Since no one has addressed one of the OP's questions I will.
You CAN run Synology DSM on a pc...
It is called Xpenology & there is a lot of good info on how to do it available on the web.

So you can have your cake and eat it too if you want.
You can use your own/powerful hardware and Synology's excellent software.

Let us know if you give it a try.

edit:
A buddy of mine ran it for fun and said it was just as simple to setup as you could ask for.
He and I both own Syno NAS'es and I trust his opinion.