Large house with concrete walls

[Abbas]

I live in a decently sized house (about 5000 sq ft) but the walls are concrete. I also have a Ring Doorbell on the gate that is about 50 feet away. I have wired networking across most of the house but not at the gate. My ISP provides a PPPoE connection.

At the moment, I have an Apple Airport Express connected to Eero and then three eero points across the house, one of which is Gen 2 and another is a beacon. The solution is ok. Sometimes, the doorbell doesn't get good WiFi and many time streaming in 4k isn't smooth.

I am debating between Orbi, Velop or just one really badass router like the ASUS AC5300 or something similar by Linksys. What I would like is to have WiFi across the entire house and the gate as well as smooth streaming for my 4K content. Would you guys recommend a single very powerful router or a more powerful mesh network?

 

[thiggins]

Are you using the Ethernet to connect the Express and eeros?

What is acting as your router.

A diagram would help.

 

[Abbas]

Thanks for your response Tim.

The Express is set up to simply connect to my ISP via PPPoE and then using a wired connection, to the Eero. It's a double NAT config.

The primary Eero (Gen1) is acting as the main router for all connected WiFi devices. Using Ethernet, this primary Eero is connected to a 2nd Eero (Gen2) upstairs where my Apple TV 4K and NVIDIA Shield are connected and streaming content. I have an Eero Beacon close to my bedroom and another Gen1 Eero downstairs near a window for the Ring Doorbell (which is about 30 feet away).

I have ordered two ASUS AC86U routers which will be here in two weeks. Thought I'd keep one downstairs and one upstairs and use them in Mesh mode with a wired backhaul connection. I think this should solve most of my in-house problems as I can then connect the Apple TV and Shield wired to the upstairs AC86 unit. Just hope that these two can extend WiFi coverage towards my bedroom and the gate!

 

[thiggins]

I would not mess with AiMesh at this point. It is still buggy so you may be just getting yourself more problems. But looks like you are down that path. Good luck.

 

[Abbas]

I would not mess with AiMesh at this point. It is still buggy so you may be just getting yourself more problems. But looks like you are down that path. Good luck.

Didn’t realize AiMesh isn’t ready for prime time. My bad. I could try and cancel the order.

The bigger question I want to figure out is if I can get one super powerful router that can power the entire house. I had tested TPLink OnHub and it covered about 60-70% of my house fine. So if there is anything that’s twice as strong (WiFi signal/reach) then I just might be able to skip mesh altogether.

 

[MjWoneR]

Isn’t it better to have a router and then use wired access points like Ubiquiti’s Unifi?

 

[joegreat]

As discussed many times in the forum: There is no magic solution to bring WLAN to all the areas you need.
But there is a simple one: Add additional WLAN access devices where you need them!

I am also living in a ferro concrete flat (rather small with only 95 m²) but one router cannot penetrate the walls (especially with 5 GHz). So I had to add an Access Point on the other half of the flat.
Of course it was easy to overcome this kind of problems as I have added 2 CAT6 cables in every room and a central patch panel to connect the rooms - that enabled me to add WLAN access devices wherever needed.

If you do not have the possibility to run cables to the places where you need to add WLAN access devices you can add a PowerLine device to bridge the gap and on it the WLAN access point.

Additional WLAN access devices can be rather cheap routers in Access Points mode and will be a simple and good solution to solves the problem!

 

[thiggins]

Didn’t realize AiMesh isn’t ready for prime time. My bad. I could try and cancel the order.

There are extensive threads here in the forums discussing the beta and release.

All APs, no matter what form they take, must obey FCC transmit power limits. Some have lower power than others, but none can be higher.

The general rule of thumb is the higher the # of MIMO streams, the better your chance of increased range.

Again, a diagram of your home would help provide better advice. The only shot you have at using a single router would be if you can place it central to the area you are trying to cover.

You have the advantage of having Ethernet. Use it to connect as many of your APs as you can. Get a wired AP as close as you can to your "gate" dead zone, then try an extender place about halfway between the dead spot and the AP.

 

[Abbas]

Isn’t it better to have a router and then use wired access points like Ubiquiti’s Unifi?

Haven’t checked that out yet. Is it the same as amplifi hd?

 

[Abbas]

As discussed many times in the forum: There is no magic solution to bring WLAN to all the areas you need.
But there is a simple one: Add additional WLAN access devices where you need them!

I am also living in a ferro concrete flat (rather small with only 95 m²) but one router cannot penetrate the walls (especially with 5 GHz). So I had to add an Access Point on the other half of the flat.
Of course it was easy to overcome this kind of problems as I have added 2 CAT6 cables in every room and a central patch panel to connect the rooms - that enabled me to add WLAN access devices wherever needed.

If you do not have the possibility to run cables to the places where you need to add WLAN access devices you can add a PowerLine device to bridge the gap and on it the WLAN access point.

Additional WLAN access devices can be rather cheap routers in Access Points mode and will be a simple and good solution to solves the problem!

Thanks. My assumption was that Extenders slow the network and mesh is more optimized. I remember having an AirPort Extreme and multiple Expresses around the house and WiFi was slow.

 

[Abbas]

There are extensive threads here in the forums discussing the beta and release.

All APs, no matter what form they take, must obey FCC transmit power limits. Some have lower power than others, but none can be higher.

The general rule of thumb is the higher the # of MIMO streams, the better your chance of increased range.

Again, a diagram of your home would help provide better advice. The only shot you have at using a single router would be if you can place it central to the area you are trying to cover.

You have the advantage of having Ethernet. Use it to connect as many of your APs as you can. Get a wired AP as close as you can to your "gate" dead zone, then try an extender place about halfway between the dead spot and the AP.

Thanks for the links. I’ll check it out. One more option using the ASUS routers would be to create a separate network upstairs and downstairs. The upstairs router will be wired to the main downstairs wire which will be connected to the ISP fiber box.

The issue with the gate is that there isn’t any power point near it and I’m already as close as I can be from inside the house with the eero in the window.

What router has the highest number of MIMO streams

 

[MichaelCG]

If you can't get an AP physically closer to the gate, it is unlikely that any of the WiFi solutions you have mentioned will resolve that.

From your original post, there are two completely different issues you are trying to resolve:
1.) Range issue with the gate mounted Ring device
2.) Performance issue within the house with your 4K streaming.

Gate Mounted Ring
Unlikely any mesh solution will help you in that with the distances you are wanting to cover with the mesh devices being inside the house. You will either need physical proximity or directional antennas to overcome. This is where the repeater part of Tim's response comes in or get an outside AP with a directional antenna to point towards the gate. If you crank the power up of a specific AP in a mesh system, clients won't want to roam to the other APs within the mesh since they see a strong signal from the more distant but very loud AP.

In-House Coverage and Performance
If you are wanting to be able to support 4K streaming across a 5000sqft concrete house...I just don't see this happening well without Ethernet back-haul to distributed APs. I don't have personal experience with the mesh systems...but just don't see how they will have great performance when they will be dependent upon 5GHz signals being able to penetrate concrete walls for back-haul. I mean, in my non-concrete 3000sqft house, my 5GHz speeds drop to sub 70Mbps easily when crossing more than two wood/sheetrock walls.

 

[Abbas]

Appreciate your help and support. With regards to streaming content, with the ASUS router upstairs and extra Gigabit ports, I can wire the Apple TV and Shield. This upstairs unit can also be hard wired to the downstairs unit. That could solve the streaming issue.

Coming to reaching my gate with Ring, is there a comparison on the range of OnHub vs the ASUS. The OnHub can connect to Ring but connection is weak. If the ASUS has better wireless coverage, then chances are that I will have a better connection to Ring. And if not, I could look at adding a wireless AP connected. Which one would you recommend?

Again, thanks for the help.

 

[MjWoneR]

Haven’t checked that out yet. Is it the same as amplifi hd?

I don’t think so. The Unifi line has access points with power over Ethernet so you don’t need to have a power adapter to power it, making easy and discreet installation on ceilings and walls. They have an outdoor AP too, for your doorbell.

 

[MichaelCG]

Appreciate your help and support. With regards to streaming content, with the ASUS router upstairs and extra Gigabit ports, I can wire the Apple TV and Shield. This upstairs unit can also be hard wired to the downstairs unit. That could solve the streaming issue.

Coming to reaching my gate with Ring, is there a comparison on the range of OnHub vs the ASUS. The OnHub can connect to Ring but connection is weak. If the ASUS has better wireless coverage, then chances are that I will have a better connection to Ring. And if not, I could look at adding a wireless AP connected. Which one would you recommend?

Again, thanks for the help.

The more you try to service a client that is on the fringe edge of service from the primary WiFi, the more you will punish the rest of your clients. It will never have similar link rates and when it is active the rest of the clients will suffer.

Your biggest challenge with any interior AP is the attenuation of passing through the walls of the house just to get outside.

The Ubiquiti equipment some of us are referencing is the UniFi line which is different than their consumer mesh gear.

Sent from some device using Tapatalk

 

[Fyodor]

When you say that you're trying to stream 4K do you mean Netflix/Amazon or some other higher-quality sources? Netflix/amazon basically require a reliable 20-25/mbit/s which I think is doable even with mesh (assuming that your Internet is up to snuff)

Do you have coax in many of your rooms? I use MoCA (Ethernet over coax) as a backhaul for my wired and wireless devices.

 

[doczenith1]

I was quite surprised at the range the 86U provided during some testing that I did recently. For the tests I walked across the street to a location 300 feet away from the router/center of my house with clear line of sight to my house. I'm guessing that based on a straight line that there may have been around 4 walls for the wifi to penetrate before getting outdoors. I tested on the 5 GHz band with a cell phone and was able to get 133 Mbps down and 41 Mbps up when running speed tests. I would think that 50 feet with the router in a window should be no problem for your Ring Doorbell.

More info here: https://www.snbforums.com/threads/86u-vs-68u-wifi-throughput.42754/

 

[Abbas]

When you say that you're trying to stream 4K do you mean Netflix/Amazon or some other higher-quality sources? Netflix/amazon basically require a reliable 20-25/mbit/s which I think is doable even with mesh (assuming that your Internet is up to snuff)

Do you have coax in many of your rooms? I use MoCA (Ethernet over coax) as a backhaul for my wired and wireless devices.

4K streaming in Amazon/Netflix/iTunes. And no Coax unfortunately.

I guess what I will do is start with the two 86U routers with the first one connected to my ISP and the second one connected to the first 86U with Ethernet. Considering how AiMesh isn't quite ready, I'll set these up as two separate WiFi networks. The ground floor can hopefully reach the Ring Doorbell and power a couple of other devices like Google Home etc. while the top one can do the heavy lifting with wired connections going to my Apple TV and Shield as well as connecting to all phones and computers. Does that sounds like a good idea to start with?

In case I'm having trouble with Ring, I could possibly buy a 2.4GHz Ubiquiti outdoor extender and use that.

 

[Fyodor]

Do you have an indoor outlet near the Ring? You could get a powerline wireless extender with its own SSID and place it at the outlet and use that network just for the Ring.

 

[Abbas]

Do you have an indoor outlet near the Ring? You could get a powerline wireless extender with its own SSID and place it at the outlet and use that network just for the Ring.

Unfortunately not. Ring is about 50 feet away from the house and I dont have power outlet or Ethernet near it.