Linksys WRT1900AC AC1900 Dual Band Wireless Router Review

[roldogg]

Antennas

Since I replaced the antennas on my RT-AC66R with some larger antennas, I wonder if the old antennas would work on the WRT1900AC? They're a little larger than the stock antennas, but I'm not sure if this is something that's product specific.

 

[sfx2000]

Since I replaced the antennas on my RT-AC66R with some larger antennas, I wonder if the old antennas would work on the WRT1900AC? They're a little larger than the stock antennas, but I'm not sure if this is something that's product specific.

For this device - I would say no...

FWIW - it does support lazy beamforming for 802.11n for 2.4Ghz as well as 5Ghz - so this is now becoming a more interesting item from an RF perspective - lazy beamforming is a plus for all 802.11n clients...

sfx

 

[KGB7]

Since I replaced the antennas on my RT-AC66R with some larger antennas, I wonder if the old antennas would work on the WRT1900AC? They're a little larger than the stock antennas, but I'm not sure if this is something that's product specific.

You won't know till you test it. I was surprised this router came with half size antennas in the first place compared to other AC routers or N routers.

 

[KGB7]

For this device - I would say no...

FWIW - it does support lazy beamforming for 802.11n for 2.4Ghz as well as 5Ghz - so this is now becoming a more interesting item from an RF perspective - lazy beamforming is a plus for all 802.11n clients...

sfx

Too many variables come in play when changing antenna size and how beamforming will be affected. Proper long tirm testing is needed.
Beamforming is too new to make a factual statement, since less 10% of the WiFi devices support beamforming.

 

[thiggins]

For this device - I would say no...

FWIW - it does support lazy beamforming for 802.11n for 2.4Ghz as well as 5Ghz - so this is now becoming a more interesting item from an RF perspective - lazy beamforming is a plus for all 802.11n clients...

What is "lazy beamforming"?

Have you seen beamforming provide a significant performance improvement? If yes, how did you test?

 

[sfx2000]

What is "lazy beamforming"?

Have you seen beamforming provide a significant performance improvement? If yes, how did you test?

I may have spoke a bit out of turn - was observing signalling at the MAC layer, and was seeing something interesting... but going back, and looking at things this morning on the PCAP's, might not be.

Signalling does indicate though that both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz support explicit beamforming for both N and AC - using AC methods - also that it's MU-MIMO in both bands, at least that is what the information elements in the PCAP suggest.

Would be very interesting to get this on a test bench with a protocol analyzer and see what it really does.

Somewhat limited in how I can test this device fully, as I only have one 802.11ac client at the moment, and it's two stream and does not support explicit beamforming.

One thing to look at if one has two of these units - look for presence of the Null Data Packet's - this is part of the sounding mechanism used for 802.11ac style beamforming for SU-MIMO and MU-MIMO.

 

[jalyst]

One thing to look at if one has two of these units

Tim still does, hopefully, although he may've been required to send at least one back ASAP, not sure.

 

[thiggins]

Tim still does, hopefully, although he may've been required to send at least one back ASAP, not sure.

I have two for as long as I need them. But not the time for further investigation of the WRT1900AC right now.

 

[thiggins]

Since I replaced the antennas on my RT-AC66R with some larger antennas, I wonder if the old antennas would work on the WRT1900AC? They're a little larger than the stock antennas, but I'm not sure if this is something that's product specific.

It's not the physical size of the antenna that counts.

What you want is higher gain antennas. You need at least 5dBi to make a difference.

 

[Mordred]

@Tim, thumbs up for the Interoperability Test!

 

[TonyH]

Hi,
If replacing antenna, it better be all 4 not just one. WRT is using 3 out of 4 antenna
diversity, it picks 3 antennas of 4 for best signal.

 

[sfx2000]

Hi,
If replacing antenna, it better be all 4 not just one. WRT is using 3 out of 4 antenna
diversity, it picks 3 antennas of 4 for best signal.

actually - looking at the signalling - it's a 4*4:3 MIMO config on the PHY/MAC layer - so swapping out antennae at the moment...

probably not a good idea.

sfx

 

[speedingcheetah]

Intial Expercience

Read my initial thoughts of this device here: http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showpost.php?p=118125&postcount=176

Read my experience between the WRT1900AC and my Asus AC56U: here

 

[sfx2000]

The Linksys WRT is a decent performer. However, as many others have mentioned, it is lacking in features when compared to others. Built in (free)DDNS service, OpenVPN/PPPTP server client, WOL, and lack of advanced statistics, logging, and access to more complex settings(to fine tune things) is why my Asus AC56U still remains my main router. The Linksys firmware I am not very fond of anyway.

Good stuff on the links - so allow me to pick on the specific nits you mention...

1) Free DDNS Service - ok, so what's the big deal? Install a client on your desktop from them, it's not like your dynamic IP changes every 15 seconds or minutes

2) OpenVPN Client/Server - this is a pox upon the world - OpenVPN is slow, thrashes the hell out of user space/kernel space as it's a UserLand application - L2TP is built into the IP stack and lives in kernel space - much faster - to OpenVPN's credit, it's good at hole-punching, but a proper L2TP config is as well, with less issues on IP overlap - note - I run an L2TP personal server and no issues noted....

3) WOL/WWOL - when was the last time you personally used this that depended specifically on the router? Maybe I've had it easy, but this hasn't been an issue...

4) Advanced Statistics/Tuning - come on - the one thing I would like is a public SNMP tree so that I can monitor usage - again, I'm not the average user, so most folks don't really care - as for tuning the WiFi (WiFi PHY, QoS, Traffic Shaping, etc), most folks really don't care, or have the knowledge to do so - touching them, well, it's site specific, and just because someone says it works better for them... well, probably not for others - my preference here is to not even expose them... between the Chipset OEM's and their board support packages and the OEM's, those engineers are not stupid - and they have an eye on performance.

5) Linksys Firmware on the WRT1900ac - it's functional, it's stable, and it works - and it's tweakable - the OpenWRT guys are kinda butt-hurt as the Marvell WiFi driver is a BLOB, ok... so be butt-hurt - in any event, Linksys has a tarball that, if you have a linux build environment, you can build and tweak on your own, just like rmerlin on the asus forums - see linky here...

WRT1900ac GPL Source - yes, you can download and build your own personal FW

This isn't an attack - just trying to clear the air here... most of your reviews and feedback are great.

sfx

 

[speedingcheetah]

Good stuff on the links - so allow me to pick on the specific nits you mention...

1) Free DDNS Service - ok, so what's the big deal? Install a client on your desktop from them, it's not like your dynamic IP changes every 15 seconds or minutes

2) OpenVPN Client/Server - this is a pox upon the world - OpenVPN is slow, thrashes the hell out of user space/kernel space as it's a UserLand application - L2TP is built into the IP stack and lives in kernel space - much faster - to OpenVPN's credit, it's good at hole-punching, but a proper L2TP config is as well, with less issues on IP overlap - note - I run an L2TP personal server and no issues noted....

3) WOL/WWOL - when was the last time you personally used this that depended specifically on the router? Maybe I've had it easy, but this hasn't been an issue...

4) Advanced Statistics/Tuning - come on - the one thing I would like is a public SNMP tree so that I can monitor usage - again, I'm not the average user, so most folks don't really care - as for tuning the WiFi (WiFi PHY, QoS, Traffic Shaping, etc), most folks really don't care, or have the knowledge to do so - touching them, well, it's site specific, and just because someone says it works better for them... well, probably not for others - my preference here is to not even expose them... between the Chipset OEM's and their board support packages and the OEM's, those engineers are not stupid - and they have an eye on performance.

5) Linksys Firmware on the WRT1900ac - it's functional, it's stable, and it works - and it's tweakable - the OpenWRT guys are kinda butt-hurt as the Marvell WiFi driver is a BLOB, ok... so be butt-hurt - in any event, Linksys has a tarball that, if you have a linux build environment, you can build and tweak on your own, just like rmerlin on the asus forums - see linky here...

WRT1900ac GPL Source - yes, you can download and build your own personal FW

This isn't an attack - just trying to clear the air here... most of your reviews and feedback are great.

sfx

First off...these items I listed are included on routers nearly half the price.

1. Install a DDNS client? Who is "them"that you are referring to? The Asus DDNS service is buit-in to the router, there is no software to install. And, my IP does change frequently. I will not pay for a service that I can get for free, or use a free service where the host name expires every 30days(like no-ip). A top of the line router, in my opinion, no reason why it should not come with such DDNS service attached to it.

2. I have had the opposite experience with OpenVPN performance as you describe. I was using PPTP at first(from my Win Server 2012 box), but then switched to the built in OpenVPN when Asus implemented it. MUCH better performance. Plus, in TAP mode, allows me to remotely use my HDHomeRun Prime in Media Center. And OpenVPN only took me about a min to get working out of the box. Comparison of VPN severs I found here

3. I use WOL all the time. (I actually use WOL instead of pressing power buttons.) It is a huge time saver to tap on the smartphone app and remotely wake my systems, or access the router web UI and do it from there. The Linksys SmartWifi Firmware/App does not have WOL, even the routers Network map, sure, it lists all connected devices, why not have WOL.

4. I am not talking about average users here. "Average users" most likely aren't going to be inclined to purchase a top-of-the-line router, especially one that is priced higher than the rest. Linksys geared and is advertising this model for power or advanced users(whatever term you want to use) and for the OpenSource community, which generally is not the average consumer, but tweakers/modders. I am NOT an average consumer and thus, my reviews are not from that viewpoint and mindset.

My Asus(and other brands/models) have more advanced options. Thanks to this, I have greatly increased the performance of my router (from that of default/basic settings) to suit my needs.

5. Linksys firmware, has mixed opinions among users based on the threads and posts I have read. As with anything, there are folks with good and bad experiences...some hate it, some love it, some....indifferent, just as long as it performs and works well. I would say that it works, appears stable, and have basic to mid level functionality and features, but that's about it. (Also, most of their Smart apps you can download, are for iphone...and I am an android user.)

I have used OpenWRT and DD-WRT before awhile back...don't really like them personally. I love Toastman builds of TomatoUSB and Padavan firmware for the N56U. Merlins firmware is also very nice, but the stock Asus has more than what I need/want.

I am not a programer, and I have no interest in building my own firmware.

6. I wasn't aware "the air" needed clearing....

 

[jalyst]

5) Linksys Firmware on the WRT1900ac - it's functional, it's stable, and it works - and it's tweakable - the OpenWRT guys are kinda butt-hurt as the Marvell WiFi driver is a BLOB, ok... so be butt-hurt

It's not a blob any more, they were butt-hurt because it was a blob, but now they're happily playing with each successive release.
Still very messy though, & not terribly noob friendly for those that want to get involved, which is good at this stage of the game.

[now unsub'd from this thread, too busy & too much noise, apologies in advance if I don't respond]

 

[sfx2000]

It's not a blob any more, they were butt-hurt because it was a blob, but now they're happily playing with each successive release.
Still very messy though, & not terribly noob friendly for those that want to get involved, which is good at this stage of the game.

I would agree - OpenWRT is not for the timid or the neophyte - with great power comes great responsibility.

There is a full driver in the most recent GPL dump from Linksys - including release notes. Not sure if that driver is fully GPL, but all the source to build the driver is in there...

 

[sfx2000]

First off...these items I listed are included on routers nearly half the price.

and on routers in the same price range - perhaps not... they're checklist features at best

1. Install a DDNS client? Who is "them"that you are referring to? The Asus DDNS service is buit-in to the router, there is no software to install. And, my IP does change frequently. I will not pay for a service that I can get for free, or use a free service where the host name expires every 30days(like no-ip). A top of the line router, in my opinion, no reason why it should not come with such DDNS service attached to it.

Is Asus DDNS service free and open to everyone, or just for those who buy Asus Routers?

oh, I guess not - direct from their WWW site -- https://asusddns.appspot.com/

"ASUS DDNS service is freely available to ASUS product users, and it's not just another dynamic DNS service. The service is embedded in your ASUS wireless router, and closely integrated with the server to save the time and money usually required for service registration. "

It's a value add for Asus customers, and a lockin perhaps once they have your domain...

2. I have had the opposite experience with OpenVPN performance as you describe. I was using PPTP at first(from my Win Server 2012 box), but then switched to the built in OpenVPN when Asus implemented it. MUCH better performance. Plus, in TAP mode, allows me to remotely use my HDHomeRun Prime in Media Center. And OpenVPN only took me about a min to get working out of the box. Comparison of VPN severs I found here

http://bit.ly/1lJ89Ef

Simply put - IPSEC/L2TP is a better solution.

I set up VPN binds all the time in carrier space, and every one of them is a IPSEC/L2TP tunnel - I would never consider using OpenVPN for those tunnels, and I think my peers would do the same...

OpenVPN vs. L2TP - it's a holy war of sorts, and for this, I'll agree we're on different sides

FWIW - OpenVPN - it's handy for casual VPN's perhaps, I'll concede that, and like L2TP, it is secure...

3. I use WOL all the time. (I actually use WOL instead of pressing power buttons.) It is a huge time saver to tap on the smartphone app and remotely wake my systems, or access the router web UI and do it from there. The Linksys SmartWifi Firmware/App does not have WOL, even the routers Network map, sure, it lists all connected devices, why not have WOL.

Even though the device doesn't have a setting for it, give it a try... you might be surprised - if you understand how WOL works - the challenge here is Wireless WOL - which is a bit more work...

4. I am not talking about average users here. "Average users" most likely aren't going to be inclined to purchase a top-of-the-line router, especially one that is priced higher than the rest. Linksys geared and is advertising this model for power or advanced users(whatever term you want to use) and for the OpenSource community, which generally is not the average consumer, but tweakers/modders. I am NOT an average consumer and thus, my reviews are not from that viewpoint and mindset.

And neither am I - if I didn't appreciate your comments, I would not have responded - I may not agree with all of them, but at the same time, I think that most of them can be addressed at some point, either directly in the Firmware or thru the SmartWiFi apps (note to Linksys, publish an SDK/API document and open this bugger up for curated apps).

My Asus(and other brands/models) have more advanced options. Thanks to this, I have greatly increased the performance of my router (from that of default/basic settings) to suit my needs.

That's awesome - and I've taken a different path - I don't use the NAS/Printer sharing functionality, VPN, etc... I have a dedicated server that sits on my desk and consumes about 10 watts in idle state - and it is much faster and more reliable than most consumer/SOHO access-point router appliances - it's called a MacMini with OSX Server.

5. Linksys firmware, has mixed opinions among users based on the threads and posts I have read. As with anything, there are folks with good and bad experiences...some hate it, some love it, some....indifferent, just as long as it performs and works well. I would say that it works, appears stable, and have basic to mid level functionality and features, but that's about it. (Also, most of their Smart apps you can download, are for iphone...and I am an android user.)

The factory firmware is actually not that bad - there's some inconsistencies, but the important stuff for 95 percent of the people is present and easily configured. As long as it's stable, it's good - and so far, it seems to be...

You and I, and perhaps many on this thread are part of that 5 percent that looks for a bit more - shared objective - utility, performance, stability - our methods and means are different, but we're more similar than different.

I have used OpenWRT and DD-WRT before awhile back...don't really like them personally. I love Toastman builds of TomatoUSB and Padavan firmware for the N56U. Merlins firmware is also very nice, but the stock Asus has more than what I need/want.

OpenWRT is an acquired taste - the bar is high, but for some folks, it's pretty awesome

DD-WRT - kinda lost respect for them a few years back when they grabbed for the money, never really looked back - I wish them luck

rmerlin and the asus third party dev community - I really do appreciate what they're doing - Asus sees this as a positive, and I think Linksys/Belkin is working to develop a similar community, both thru their OpenWRT efforts, along with the required GPL dump.

I am not a programer, and I have no interest in building my own firmware.

Dammit Jim, I'm an engineer not a doctor...

6. I wasn't aware "the air" needed clearing....

Like I said, not an attack... sometimes I'm a bit blunt at times...

sfx

 

[speedingcheetah]

http://bit.ly/1lJ89Ef

Simply put - IPSEC/L2TP is a better solution.

I set up VPN binds all the time in carrier space, and every one of them is a IPSEC/L2TP tunnel - I would never consider using OpenVPN for those tunnels, and I think my peers would do the same...

OpenVPN vs. L2TP - it's a holy war of sorts, and for this, I'll agree we're on different sides

FWIW - OpenVPN - it's handy for casual VPN's perhaps, I'll concede that, and like L2TP, it is secure...


That's awesome - and I've taken a different path - I don't use the NAS/Printer sharing functionality, VPN, etc... I have a dedicated server that sits on my desk and consumes about 10 watts in idle state - and it is much faster and more reliable than most consumer/SOHO access-point router appliances - it's called a MacMini with OSX Server.


sfx

OpenVPN is built in..and worked out of the box and was super easy to setup..doesn't matter to me if L2TP is technically a better performer. (It is not offered as a server mode in the Asus router anyway)

OpenVPN still has no issue maxing out my ISP connection and I have read several threads where others who have used it fine with connections more than 2x what I have available to me.

Anyway, I don't use the file/printer sharing on my router either. I have a FreeNAS desktop and my Server 2012 R2 Essentials for those purposes.

Sure, Linksys can add on more advanced features via firmware updates, but i doubt they will ever get to the level of Asus or others. Why would they waste their money and resources doing that, when they can have the Open source community do it for them.

The Linksys apps available for smartphones hasn't changed much since when I first tried SmartWiFi with the EA2700.

 

[tinmann]

I'm glad I didn't wait on this when I upgraded from a Linksys E4200. I opted for the Asus RT-AC68R and coupled with a PCE-AC68 I'm very pleased with my results.