Looking for a router for the next 10 years - need advice for $200 budget

[L&LD]

@sfx2000, no, of course not.

Performance, security, stability, and long-term support are exactly why Asus + RMerlin-powered routers are great products for their price, ease of use, and availability.

Not 'any' new WiFi 6 router at an arbitrary price point ($100 in today's economy is sadly laughable). Select Asus routers period.

Suggesting otherwise is not seeing the total market/picture as it is.

 

[ElonMusty]

If performance, security, stability and long term support is the main goal here the whole thread with AIO home routers ideas is a bad advice. This is the reason I personally don't use AIO routers. With the requirements and budget @stepinstone has - any new Wi-Fi 6 AIO router starting from $100.

@Tech9,

1. How might I learn more about commercial routers that offer great value to the end-user?
2. Can you recommend a few of these devices?

Thank you.

 

[ElonMusty]

erm - no...

This is like one of those interview questions - "where do you see yourself in 5 years" - in my area, that's an impossible question to answer as the job time/half-life is about a year and a half...

Where things are at the moment - we've got WAN side improvements with DOCSIS4 and Fiber as well as Fixed Wireless Access over 5G, it's hard to tell where things will be in 3 years, much less 10..

At the moment with WiFi6 - well, to be honest, and folks are going to hate on me - any AC1900 class device is "good enough" and it will be good enough for the next couple of years...

For the Asus FanBois - the RT-AC68U is still as good/relevant today as it was 9 years ago...

why - physics at the end of the day - one can only get enough bits out of a stream when considering the surrounding noise from other WLAN's...

So look to the present as it is - any wifi6 device is 'good enough' and will be good for the next couple of years...

@sfx2000, it is my view too that wifi5 is good enough for most home users. Can you direct me to sources to help me understand the security risks of using an ancient AC68U with FT? Also sources that describes what a wifi5 user needs to do to harden their network.

Thanks.

 

[ElonMusty]

Are you in the USA?

If the answer is YES, I would most likely get an RT-AX86S for $169 and call it a day. It will be supported for at least few years, it has space saving vertical design, Asuswrt-Merlin support and good for Gigabit ISP. The same radios and Wi-Fi performance like popular RT-AX86U, but dual-core CPU and no 2.5GbE port. Positive feedback from people around opting for this cheaper model. With your low requirements it will serve the purpose for years and will be a significant upgrade to what you currently have. If longer support is the main goal - RT-AX86U Pro, but on sale price. I've seen it close to $200.

View attachment 52970

@Tech9, what might you recommend to someone that does not want to use Asus AX products?

 

[Tech9]

It depends on the requirements, budget, available or planned infrastructure and networking knowledge. It may range from another AX-class home router/mesh set from $100 to business class setup over $1000. I'm personally using pfSense appliance, PoE switch and PoE access points (recently upgraded to Wi-Fi 6).

 

[emilio]

If you're somebody who doesn't mind tinkering maybe look at Banana Pi R3? You'll struggle to find anything with the same specs for the price.

Banana Pi BPI-R3 - Banana Pi Wiki

wiki.banana-pi.org

You can get one of these with a set of high quality antennas for <$200

110.49US $ 38% OFF|Banana Pi Bpi-r3 Kit Mediatek Mt7986 2gb Ram 8g Emmc 5gbe Network Sfp 2.5gbe Openwrt Soft Router Board With Case Power Supply - Demo Board - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

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4.55US $ 50% de réduction|Pack de 2 divulguer Wifi 5G, 5150 5850MHz 5dBi, pour routeur mâle, pour réseau sans fil, PC, ordinateur, carte PCIE, caméra IP, importateur FPV | AliExpress

Achetez malin, vivez mieux! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

5.3US $ 35% OFF|Wifi Antenna 2.4ghz 2- Pieces Pack For Router Sma Rp Sma Bnc Male For Motherboard Modem For Zigbee Mini Aerial Wifi Extender - Communications Antennas - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

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[L&LD]

@ElonMusty,

Forget about Class 5 WiFi hardware. They are effectively obsolete/EOL very soon (if they aren't already).

AX Class routers offer a superior Class 5 client experience. Including performance, throughput, and lower latency experience.

Is Wi-Fi 6 Worth It

Wi-Fi 6 Pt 2


And to see the 'theory' in action, see how a single, entry-level, AX class router completely dominates the performance of 2x RT-AC86Us (the previous 'king' in AC class hardware) in a real-world environment in the link below.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

 

[Tech9]

I have recently replaced my Wi-Fi 5 APs with Wi-Fi 6 and all Wi-Fi 5 clients work in exactly the same way. The difference in home routers may come from different radios, not from Wi-Fi class. There is no science behind "AX Class routers offer a superior Class 5 client experience" and there is no way a single RT-AX68U will beat in range and overall performance 2x RT-AC86Us unless they were placed in completely wrong spots. A single much better RT-AX86U can't replace 2x AC86Us with -65dBm >2Gbps backhaul link. Tested already.

Budget: less than $130USD.

Long hardware support life cycle

Nothing fits the budget requirements anyway.

 

[dave14305]

You can buy a NetGear WAX206 device second-hand on Amazon for $65 USD and install OpenWrt on it and live happily for many years and many updates. Just an alternative for modest requirements.

 

[Tech9]

I have one Dynalink DL-WRX36 still in box waiting for attention. It was about $80 on Amazon USA. You @dave14305 have experience with it. Good, bad, ugly with OpenWrt? Excellent hardware for the price.

 

[dave14305]

I have one Dynalink DL-WRX36 still in box waiting for attention. It was about $80 on Amazon USA. You @dave14305 have experience with it. Good, bad, ugly with OpenWrt? Excellent hardware for the price.

It’s my current router and have few complaints. There’s some oddities at the moment for some people with multicast traffic. And there have been some fits and starts with the Qualcomm firmware being released to support the WiFi. But overall it’s a fantastic device for the price. I would have recommended it instead, but flashing it the first time requires a lot of savvy. The Netgear is just “upload to the existing stock firmware upgrade page.”

Next week the Dynalink will get demoted to a dumb AP when my new x86 device arrives.

 

[L&LD]

@ElonMusty, take the above posts with a grain of salt. Non users of Asus routers simply can't know, right?

To clarify, I set up both the 2x RT-AC86Us and the 2x RT-AX68Us in that customer's home. The locations were optimized for each router model. Also tested an RT-AX68U with an RT-AC86U AiMesh node, very much worse performance than a single RT-AX68U. The latency in particular suffered a lot with that combination. From memory, the old AC class routers were located slightly closer together (about 18"), than the final location of the AX class routers. Yes, mere inches can make a difference (sometimes, dramatically).

And yes, there is a science behind AX class routers being superior to AC class routers, even with the same clients. AX class routers (not all of them) offer newer RF designs, newer hardware improvements, and newer SDKs. But, bring up strawman arguments once more, and assume that you know more than others, again.

 

[dave14305]

Yes, mere inches can make a difference (sometimes, dramatically).

You sound like my wife.

 

[L&LD]

And you sound like her husband!

 

[ElonMusty]

It depends on the requirements, budget, available or planned infrastructure and networking knowledge. It may range from another AX-class home router/mesh set from $100 to business class setup over $1000. I'm personally using pfSense appliance, PoE switch and PoE access points (recently upgraded to Wi-Fi 6)

When things slow down for me, I too will try pfsense. I will use a laptop. I suspect the laptop will consume more energy compared to a home router. Once I prove to myself I can handle pfsense, I will graduate to a pfsense appliance.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[ElonMusty]

If you're somebody who doesn't mind tinkering maybe look at Banana Pi R3? You'll struggle to find anything with the same specs for the price.

Banana Pi BPI-R3 - Banana Pi Wiki

wiki.banana-pi.org

You can get one of these with a set of high quality antennas for <$200

110.49US $ 38% OFF|Banana Pi Bpi-r3 Kit Mediatek Mt7986 2gb Ram 8g Emmc 5gbe Network Sfp 2.5gbe Openwrt Soft Router Board With Case Power Supply - Demo Board - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

4.55US $ 50% de réduction|Pack de 2 divulguer Wifi 5G, 5150 5850MHz 5dBi, pour routeur mâle, pour réseau sans fil, PC, ordinateur, carte PCIE, caméra IP, importateur FPV | AliExpress

Achetez malin, vivez mieux! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

5.3US $ 35% OFF|Wifi Antenna 2.4ghz 2- Pieces Pack For Router Sma Rp Sma Bnc Male For Motherboard Modem For Zigbee Mini Aerial Wifi Extender - Communications Antennas - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

0.99US $ 50% OFF|Ipx Ipex U.fl Rp Sma Female Pigtail Cable | Ipx U Fl Ipex Pigtail Connector Female - Connectors - Aliexpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

This is interesting. @emilio, in your experience, is OpenWRT on a Pi easier to setup and maintain than pfSense on x86?

 

[ElonMusty]

@ElonMusty,

Forget about Class 5 WiFi hardware. They are effectively obsolete/EOL very soon (if they aren't already).

AX Class routers offer a superior Class 5 client experience. Including performance, throughput, and lower latency experience.

Is Wi-Fi 6 Worth It

Wi-Fi 6 Pt 2


And to see the 'theory' in action, see how a single, entry-level, AX class router completely dominates the performance of 2x RT-AC86Us (the previous 'king' in AC class hardware) in a real-world environment in the link below.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

Very nice and detailed write-ups @L&LD!

I see your point for both commercial use and for families with large homes and many devices. *IF* there is already a functional wifi5 router in the home, for the senior citizen couple, and the recent empty-nester couple, I respectfully maintain wifi5 is good enough, especially if they are not techies. In these situations, the use case will be less than 20 devices.
4 streaming TVs
2 personal tablets
2 two work laptops.
2 doorbell cameras
5 devices owned by visiting familes and friends.

There might also be as many as four cell phones (two each personal and two each for work). If the local LTE or 5G is strong, these cells will not access the home router. Factor in many, but not all, live in homes where there is limited RF saturation, versus the crowded RF environment of an apartment, and I think most users will find wifi5 is good enough. This might also apply to a young couple with less than three kids under 10 years old.

Based on these limited needs, you might say, just use the ISP devices. This is true; however, using a home router makes it easier to switch ISPs, especially for the non techies. This gives families with limited funds the ability to force ISPs to compete. In this case, switching is almost as simple as pluging WAN from home router into a LAN port on the device of the new ISP. Of course there are a few other steps, most of which can be done by ISP customer support rep.

But yes, I agree, for commerical and a family with a lot of devices, the better option is wifi6.

 

[Tech9]

the use case will be less than 20 devices

For the senior citizen couple, and the recent empty-nester couple

Any home router starting under $100. The simpler the better. If more than one routers is needed - Amazon eero, Google Nest Wifi, TP-Link Deco. Easy button solution and works well for non-tech people.

 

[emilio]

This is interesting. @emilio, in your experience, is OpenWRT on a Pi easier to setup and maintain than pfSense on x86?

It's certainly easier to set up as it come's pre installed on the BPIs NAND.
My requirements aren't particularly complex, OpenWRT has been more than powerful enough for me. I mostly use OpenWRT as it easily allows you to set your wireless countrycode to KN which lets you up the maximum transmit power to 30dbm which is not something most manufacturers default firmware allows.

 

[Tech9]

Exceeding the maximum allowed power in your country is actually illegal. This is the reason stock firmware on home routers doesn't allows it to happen and newer routers are locked down deeper than firmware.