Looking for opinions re. Ubiquiti or something else

[razzle]

So this might be TLDR but some background is required. Jan 2024 i purchased a 2 pack of Asus Zenwifi XT8 AX6600 HW version 2 based on online reviews to replace my TP-Link Archer. Had the expected trouble with the Asus and tried solutions after i found this site. Nothing worked. Since gnuton is not available for the v2 hardware i decided to abandon the Asus. I purchased 2 Ubiquiti Unifi Express UX units. One to serve as router/WAP and one as just a WAP. They work well, but i think my use case is maxing out the Express. Both my wife and i work from home, we are going to be home schooling my son, and i have smart home devices deployed using Home Assistant. All together about 67 devices right now. This will grow over time and i will have to extend my network with another WAP in the next year (outbuilding workshop). I have two kids, both teens, so at various times we could have as many as 4 streams going (YT, Roku, Xbox, Meta Oculus, etc). I have a 500Mbps fiber WAN from Frontier. May consider upgrading to 1GB in the future.
You can consider my use case as equivalent to SMB with residential uses added on. I work as an IT infrastructure engineer so i am pretty knowledgeable about networking and like to 'tinker'.

At times the Unifi Express router gets dog slow. My Inet bandwidth doesnt appear saturated, but the memory and CPU on the Express look pretty maxed. So i think i am exceeding the UX router's capabilities. Thus my question:

I am trying to decide between a Unifi Dream Router UDR (ebay used since it is never in stock), Cloud Gateway Ultra or Max, or a Unifi Dream Machine Pro UDM-Pro. I dont really want to spend alot more money unless i think i will get something that will last a few years. Do you think the Dream Router UDR or Cloud Gateways will be sufficient or will i max that out in the not too distant future? I am iffy on the Cloud Gateway's as they have the same form factor as the Express UX.

I am sort of willing to look at another vendor system but i certainly dont want to spend $1-2000 on an Orbi system and i dont trust Eero or Google Wifi from a privacy standpoint. TP-Link is now out due to the government warning.
My requirements are, in priority order: Maximum reliability, sufficient capacity to allow for growth over the next 3-5 years, desired IPS, minimum chance of obsolescence in the near future (I know ;-)
I may have answered my own question but it would be good to get some validation from people who may have experience with the Ubiquiti hardware. I am tired of being burned by purchasing something based on online reviews and then finding out it has issues or doesnt live up to the specs. Thanks ahead of time for any advice.

 

[KGB7]

67 devices and you will add even more?? Do you honestly need that many in the first place?

 

[Tech9]

At times the Unifi Express router gets dog slow.

Because it is slow and designed for up to 5x UniFi devices including Express itself. I have 2x UniFi Express units on my network used for fancy wireless bridges (clients) to 2x wired PCs each. Express is not good for larger/expandable network. Look for Cloud Gateway Ultra or Max instead, they are 3-in-1 devices with Gateway, Controller and Switch. Support up to 30x UniFi devices with hundreds of clients. See my signature.

All together about 67 devices right now. This will grow over time...

Get out of the consumer market. UniFi or Omada as lower cost options for home application.

 

[razzle]

67 devices and you will add even more?? Do you honestly need that many in the first place?

Well, when you get into the smart home stuff and you use Wifi instead of zigbee the number of devices goes up pretty quick. Granted, most of the smart home stuff is not high bandwidth. In fact most of that is internal only. No Inet access. But between two Rokus, two Meta Oculus, my work VPN (including voice/video meetings and tons of RDP), Xbox, Nintendo Switch, PC Gaming, Music Streaming. The cumulative effect can get up there. Especially for the Wifi. My kids love to stream music while they are gaming. Two kids home doing their thing, my wife watching Roku in the living room and me at work things can get pretty congested. Work PC is hardline, and I hardline what i can of the kids devices. I also prioritize my work traffic over everything else. Modern life and all.

 

[Tech9]

I purchased 2 Ubiquiti Unifi Express UX units.

Get UCG-Ultra or UCG-Max for gateway, perhaps the switch you need for your wired devices, convert your existing UX units to wired APs. The system performance will increase significantly. You may not need more APs at the moment, UX has a good range.

 

[razzle]

Because it is slow and designed for up to 5x UniFi devices including Express itself. I have 2x UniFi Express units on my network used for fancy wireless bridges (clients) to 2x wired PCs each. Express is not good for larger/expandable network. Look for Cloud Gateway Ultra or Max instead, they are 3-in-1 devices with Gateway, Controller and Switch. Support up to 30x UniFi devices with hundreds of clients. See my signature.



Get out of the consumer market. UniFi or Omada as lower cost options for home application.

How long have you had your Ultra? Have you had any issues with it?

 

[Tech9]

How long have you had your Ultra?

I have 2x similar systems running, both with UCG-Ultra gateway. Both have uptime since installed and first UniFi OS updated.

Have you had any issues with it?

None.

 

[Tech9]

I am iffy on the Cloud Gateway's as they have the same form factor as the Express UX.

UCG-Ultra/Max are actually larger devices, day and night difference in performance. UX dual-core PIQ5018 1GHz CPU with 1GB RAM vs UCG-Ultra/Max quad-core IPQ5322 CPU 1.5GHz with 3GB RAM. UCG-Max will do 1.5Gbps IDS/IPS with Suricata multicore. UCG-Ultra will be limited to Gigabit by the ports. Both are better gateway than UDR and much better than UX.

 

[razzle]

I have 2x similar systems running, both with UCG-Ultra gateway. Both have uptime since installed and first UniFi OS updated.

View attachment 63181



None.

That is better uptime then i have with the Express. I usually have to restart monthly since it gets unresponsive to the management access. It still passes traffic, but i cant log in to manage it until i restart. I am looking hard at the Ultra right now. I dont need NVR.

 

[Tech9]

I also don't need Protect and NVR, my ISP lines are up to Gigabit, hence UCG-Ultra. It's also much cooler device compared to both UX and Max. Runs barely warm to the touch in my environment at around 50C CPU. Max reaches 80C as per user feedback, UX - warmer than Ultra, but forgot to check temp readings. My UX devices are new additions, got them on sale for $110/unit. U6-Mesh run hot >50C case, but by design.

 

[razzle]

UCG-Ultra/Max are actually larger devices, day and night difference in performance. UX dual-core PIQ5018 1GHz CPU with 1GB RAM vs UCG-Ultra/Max quad-core IPQ5322 CPU 1.5GHz with 3GB RAM. UCG-Max will do 1.5Gbps IDS/IPS with Suricata multicore. UCG-Ultra will be limited to Gigabit by the ports. Both are better gateway than UDR and much better than UX.

Thank you for the input. I just ordered the UCG-Ultra. I am looking forward to getting it installed.

 

[Tech9]

When you receive it you can set it up in double NAT to your existing network without disturbing your family, then you have to reset your UX units and adopt them as APs to the new Ultra. If the UniFi OS needs updating on the Ultra it will take about 10min, then setting up the UX as APs will take about 10min more. UX is remarkably slow for restarts, wins the slowest UniFi device competition every time.

Something else you perhaps need to know - if you have UX as AP with wireless uplink the Ethernet ports are both LAN, but on the main VLAN. Current software doesn't allow VLAN separation on UX ports in AP mode. If they are wired APs though - you can have whatever you want VLAN on the wireless interfaces like with any other AP device. Stay on Official release channel. Someone else will do the beta testing.

 

[razzle]

Great suggestions. I dont currently use vlans. But i will be setting up one of the UX as AP using LAN uplink. The other UX doesnt have a LAN line near it yet. So it stays in wireless uplink mode. Changing that requires climbing around in the attic. i have been putting that off.

 

[Tech9]

You still need physical access to the UX units, have to reset them and the best strategy is to adopt the first one wired, enable Wireless Meshing in System/Advanced on your new gateway and attempt adopting the second UX wirelessly. Keep in mind UCG-Ultra doesn't have built-in AP, you have to have at least one AP up and running for wireless uplink device discovery. If UX wireless adoption doesn't work for some reason - wire it temporarily to the gateway, adopt it and it will fail back to wireless uplink after. I did wired adoption for both UX on my system.

Wireless uplink AP will work as normal AP with full VLAN capabilities, but the throughput to clients using it will be about 50% due to retransmissions. With good wireless uplink up to -60dBm you can eventually rely on 200-300Mbps throughput max. Use mesh as Plan B.

 

[degrub]

Winter is often the best time to run cables in the attic. And to replace HVAC systems ! ;-)

 

[Tech9]

Sometimes network changes are due to local political reasons. The PCs I have with wireless bridges now were... previously wired. My local network engineer made light, view, accessibility... whatever... evaluation and made changes leaving the wall plates on the wrong side. Since I want to have a happy new year and possibly few more after - two UX units restored the piece and harmony. Thanks Ubiquiti for understanding!

 

[cptnoblivious]

I have very little time with the Cloud Gateway Ultra compared to some here, having just switched to it from my AX68 a week or so ago. But it feels like a big step up. Been rock solid and using an old AX58 as the AP for now, until I can get a U6 (or U6+).

The interface takes a day or so to learn, but it's pretty intuitive once you get started.

 

[Tech9]

If you need single AP only and Wi-Fi 6 class - look at U6-Pro or U6-Mesh. Both are the same Qualcomm hardware in different form factor, both have excellent range. U6-Mesh is better for desktop use, has PoE injector included, runs hot because of the small size and IPX rating. Perhaps has higher Wife Acceptance Factor as well. U6-Pro is better for wall/ceiling use, needs PoE injector or PoE switch separately, runs cooler.

 

[coxhaus]

I like the Cisco small business networking equipment. It will have less software bugs than Unifi and believe it or not the Cisco 150ax APs are cheaper plus you don't have to buy a controller as the controller and backup controller is built in. I use pfsense as a router more than likely probably better VPN performance if you need it for work.