Massive loss of speed via wireless on DSL-AC68U

[Max Spencer]

If you can confirm the connections per above post as well as the layout/size of your house I’d happily make some suggestions for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you. If you look at original screen shot attached to my first post it does say PPPoE as connection type. And somehow that very fact dictates my menus within the UI? Does that mean I have Ethernet fibre? I didn’t know there were different types and just assumed that as my router was ADSL/VDSL that it was VDSL. If it helps I have fibre optic cable coming into box in home and then a standard Ethernet cable (I think) connecting that to LAN 4 on my Asus router. Home is two storey Duplex, 3 bed, quite spacious by modern day standards. Hope this gives you enough for recommendations. If you need anything more, please let me know.

 

[JDB]

Ok so you definitely have PPPoE Ethernet Fibre, not VDSL.

So given your extremely high WAN speed and wish to have that available wirelessly I can only really recommend the RT-AX88U as your main router.
Obviously we’re only going to recommend Asus here!
You should also install Merlin firmware on it for best stability/security/feature set. If you really want to get into tinkering you can install amtm (it’s baked in so easy to do) - but that’s definitely an advanced option!

If you can run an Ethernet cable from the ONT on the wall to somewhere fairly central in the home then that alone might do the job. It depends on where in the home your REALLY want/need 900Mbps coverage for a single device.
Side note - 900Mbps service offerings are not really designed to allow 1 device to use it all at once, it’s so multiple devices can all use several hundred simultaneously... this is borne out by this whole discussion and the difficulty in achieving single device 900Mbps throughout without buying bleeding edge new technology!

If you can’t locate the router optimally and/or find you have a ‘slow spot’ where you want/need a fast spot, then you could add an RT-AX58U as an AiMesh node. I absolutely strongly and categorically recommend this be connected to the 88U via Ethernet, not wirelessly, due to your throughput demands.

The RT-AX3000 is another name for the RT-AX58U so is an option for an additional node.

Avoid the RT-AX56U as it does not support 160Mhz channels and is 2x2 only so won’t offer as much throughput.

I would consider this a pretty future proof setup with the 88U offering 4x4 160Mhz AX Wi-fi.

Your biggest bottleneck will be the majority of your clients not supporting the AX standard (yet). And even those that do will probably only be 2x2 and possibly only 80Mhz capable, so limiting them to ~1Gbps connection rate (~600Mbps throughput). It’s going to be another couple of years before 3x3/160Mhz AX clients become the new standard and so offering 2-3Gbps throughput.

If you want to understand more, find a couple of hours to read this https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JDB]

I should probably mention the RT-AX86U as well.
It as JUST been released.
It benefits from a 2.5Gbps WAN port, so more future proofing (when you consider you’ve already maxed out the 1Gbps on the 68U you have and the 88U I recommend). Otherwise it’s is very similar to the 88U.

I don’t know if it will get Merlin support, hopefully it’s just too new to have been added. Assuming it gets Merlin support I’d definitely favour the 86U for its 2.5Gbps WAN. For many of us Merlin firmware is a must.

Neither it or the 88U have Wifi6E (6Ghz) support though. I’m personally holding out for the next gen of routers from Asus that presumably will do before I upgrade. Hopefully that will give me a good long run with them!

In your shoes having already started paying for a currently unusable 900Mbps service, I’d wait a few weeks to see if the 86U gets Merlin support or not (unless @RMerlin can answer that now, I didn’t find any mention in a quick search) and then go for it or the 88U based on that outcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[L&LD]

The 900Mbps service isn't 'unusable', it just isn't fully utilized by a single device over WiFi.

With 3 or more devices concurrently using the fatter pipe, the 900Mbps ISP speeds will be fully used. Even over WiFi.

I don't see anything wrong here (yet) that requires upgrading the main router or requiring AX nodes added (wired, wireless will not be worth it).

If/when RMerlin announces support for the RT-AX86U, that is when to consider upgrading to that model. Right now, the RT-AX88U is the only one worth considering as the main router with a 1Gbps plan (with RMerlin + amtm + script support).

 

[JDB]

The 900Mbps service isn't 'unusable', it just isn't fully utilized by a single device over WiFi.

With 3 or more devices concurrently using the fatter pipe, the 900Mbps ISP speeds will be fully used. Even over WiFi.

I don't see anything wrong here (yet) that requires upgrading the main router or requiring AX nodes added (wired, wireless will not be worth it).

If/when RMerlin announces support for the RT-AX86U, that is when to consider upgrading to that model. Right now, the RT-AX88U is the only one worth considering as the main router with a 1Gbps plan (with RMerlin + amtm + script support).

I was talking from the standpoint of the OP, I did already say the same as you;

Side note - 900Mbps service offerings are not really designed to allow 1 device to use it all at once, it’s so multiple devices can all use several hundred simultaneously... this is borne out by this whole discussion and the difficulty in achieving single device 900Mbps throughout without buying bleeding edge new technology!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Max Spencer]

If you can confirm the connections per above post as well as the layout/size of your house I’d happily make some suggestions for you.

RE area covered...
It’s a 3 storey house so obviously a bit more than average to cover.

Fibre comes in at 1 corner and has the main router there.

That router serves quite effectively the “column” above it (bedrooms over the 2 floors above).

Middle floor has another router in the opposite corner to the main router. Our lounge is on this floor so wanted good Wi-fi here (many people aren’t so bothered about upstairs for obvious reasons). It also serves the kitchen below it very well.

Top floor has another router, directly above the one in the lounge. It’s only required as it is where my office is so need Ethernet ports for my NAS and other devices there, plus it’s nice to have 1300Mbps connection wirelessly in my office on my MacBook Pro.

Final router is in the Conservatory. As it’s effectively outside the other routers struggle to serve it adequately via 5Ghz. This is the kids play room so has Apple TV etc that need good service. Also has the benefit of covering the garden very well.

People often forget that 5Ghz is rubbish at penetrating walls, so to get really high throughput rates everywhere really does require quite a few access points.

I’m also sensitive to having seamless coverage as I spend a lot of time making VoIP and WifiCalling on my mobile while I wonder around the house (not very good at sitting still in my office!). So that also adds to my need for good signal everywhere.

In a 2 storey, 3 bed house, if you could locate the main router in the middle it would be fine, but very often it has to be placed sub-optimally so adding an additional access point is the only way to get the coverage needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[

Ok so you definitely have PPPoE Ethernet Fibre, not VDSL.

So given your extremely high WAN speed and wish to have that available wirelessly I can only really recommend the RT-AX88U as your main router.
Obviously we’re only going to recommend Asus here!
You should also install Merlin firmware on it for best stability/security/feature set. If you really want to get into tinkering you can install amtm (it’s baked in so easy to do) - but that’s definitely an advanced option!
If you can run an Ethernet cable from the ONT on the wall to somewhere fairly central in the home then that alone might do the job. It depends on where in the home your REALLY want/need 900Mbps coverage for a single device.
Side note - 900Mbps service offerings are not really designed to allow 1 device to use it all at once, it’s so multiple devices can all use several hundred simultaneously... this is borne out by this whole discussion and the difficulty in achieving single device 900Mbps throughout without buying bleeding edge new technology!

If you can’t locate the router optimally and/or find you have a ‘slow spot’ where you want/need a fast spot, then you could add an RT-AX58U as an AiMesh node. I absolutely strongly and categorically recommend this be connected to the 88U via Ethernet, not wirelessly, due to your throughput demands.

The RT-AX3000 is another name for the RT-AX58U so is an option for an additional node.

Avoid the RT-AX56U as it does not support 160Mhz channels and is 2x2 only so won’t offer as much throughput.

I would consider this a pretty future proof setup with the 88U offering 4x4 160Mhz AX Wi-fi.

Your biggest bottleneck will be the majority of your clients not supporting the AX standard (yet). And even those that do will probably only be 2x2 and possibly only 80Mhz capable, so limiting them to ~1Gbps connection rate (~600Mbps throughput). It’s going to be another couple of years before 3x3/160Mhz AX clients become the new standard and so offering 2-3Gbps throughput.

If you want to understand more, find a couple of hours to read this https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for this, JDB. I will check those routers/configurations. I figured that wifi was always going to be a problem some distance from the router, but what I didn't realise was that the clients and the router itself were incapable of sending/receiving the full bandwidth. I did see a WAN to LAN throughput table on here somewhere and it stated 754Mb/s in testing (I think it was about that) but I know little about the test/tester/conditions. Have to say that I'm loving the full 900Mb/s which I have wired to my desk and to my son's bedroom. I have learnt plenty on this thread since I posted on here so a huge thanks, JDB for taking the effort to help me in such detail. Also thanks to L&LD, Colin, & Banger, you guys have done a great job assisting in educating me on this whole wireless issue.

 

[Max Spencer]

Thanks for this, JDB. I will check those routers/configurations. I figured that wifi was always going to be a problem some distance from the router, but what I didn't realise was that the clients and the router itself were incapable of sending/receiving the full bandwidth. I did see a WAN to LAN throughput table on here somewhere and it stated 754Mb/s in testing (I think it was about that) but I know little about the test/tester/conditions. Have to say that I'm loving the full 900Mb/s which I have wired to my desk and to my son's bedroom. I have learnt plenty on this thread since I posted on here so a huge thanks, JDB for taking the effort to help me in such detail. Also thanks to L&LD, Colin, & Banger, you guys have done a great job assisting in educating me on this whole wireless issue.

One other question, JDB, please: Would I not need the DSL versions not the RT versions of the routers mentioned? Or is the thingy they installed on the wall actually a modem/ONT so that I can use the RT versions? Is there an easy way to tell or is that just the way PPPoE systems are? Many thanks again for your help.

 

[JDB]

One other question, JDB, please: Would I not need the DSL versions not the RT versions of the routers mentioned? Or is the thingy they installed on the wall actually a modem/ONT so that I can use the RT versions? Is there an easy way to tell or is that just the way PPPoE systems are? Many thanks again for your help.

No need for the DSL version. xDSL is the technology used to push data down a phone line. You no longer have a phone line, you have fibre.

The ONT (Optical Network Terminal) is a simple device that turns light (from the fibre) into electrons (in the copper wires of the Ethernet cable) and vice versa.
In the future (10 years...) expect Routers to accept the fibre connection directly without the need for an ONT. high end routers/switches already do this, just home grade equipment has no need to right now as fibre is not prevalent enough.

PPPoE (Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet) is used to tunnel your data to and authenticate you at your ISP. Between you and your ISP’s core network there may be many transmission methods and paths, not all owned by the ISP. PPP creates a secure bridge from you to them as well as offers a way to assure they are only offering service to a customer and not someone that has hacked into the network somewhere along the way. The “oE” part is literally just describing the fact it’s going down an Ethernet cable as it leaves the router.

Extra background info for you... PPPoA (Point-to-Point Protocol over ATM) is used on ADSL (Asynchronous Digital Subscriber Line) lines. ADSL uses ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) to transport packets rather than Ethernet. So the PPP part is identical, just the “oA” is describing the transport method as it leaves the router/modem in that case.
VDSL (Very high-speed DSL) uses PTM (Packet Transfer Mode) which allows direct injection of Ethernet frames onto the DSL line, hence PPPoE is used with VDSL (much more similar to fibre).
The contrast from DSL to fibre is DSL is doing digital/analog conversion, turning bits and bytes into sound!! Don’t forget your phone line was only ever designed to carry sound and we have to somehow force data down it as a retrofit. DSL was always a hack! This is where a Modem (Modulation demodulation) comes in, it is only required where a digital/analog modulation/demodulation is used. Your fibre is digital all the way, cleaner, faster, better and no Modem, just the ONT.

Link here if you really want to get into it! https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/data_transmission.htm (Kitz is an amazing resource in general for DSL broadband info, though as you no longer are using that technology maybe you won’t care!).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Max Spencer]

No need for the DSL version. xDSL is the technology used to push data down a phone line. You no longer have a phone line, you have fibre.

The ONT (Optical Network Terminal) is a simple device that turns light (from the fibre) into electrons (in the copper wires of the Ethernet cable) and vice versa.
In the future (10 years...) expect Routers to accept the fibre connection directly without the need for an ONT. high end routers/switches already do this, just home grade equipment has no need to right now as fibre is not prevalent enough.

PPPoE (Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet) is used to tunnel your data to and authenticate you at your ISP. Between you and your ISP’s core network there may be many transmission methods and paths, not all owned by the ISP. PPP creates a secure bridge from you to them as well as offers a way to assure they are only offering service to a customer and not someone that has hacked into the network somewhere along the way. The “oE” part is literally just describing the fact it’s going down an Ethernet cable as it leaves the router.

Extra background info for you... PPPoA (Point-to-Point Protocol over ATM) is used on ADSL (Asynchronous Digital Subscriber Line) lines. ADSL uses ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) to transport packets rather than Ethernet. So the PPP part is identical, just the “oA” is describing the transport method as it leaves the router/modem in that case.
VDSL (Very high-speed DSL) uses PTM (Packet Transfer Mode) which allows direct injection of Ethernet frames onto the DSL line, hence PPPoE is used with VDSL (much more similar to fibre).
The contrast from DSL to fibre is DSL is doing digital/analog conversion, turning bits and bytes into sound!! Don’t forget your phone line was only ever designed to carry sound and we have to somehow force data down it as a retrofit. DSL was always a hack! This is where a Modem (Modulation demodulation) comes in, it is only required where a digital/analog modulation/demodulation is used. Your fibre is digital all the way, cleaner, faster, better and no Modem, just the ONT.

Link here if you really want to get into it! https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/data_transmission.htm (Kitz is an amazing resource in general for DSL broadband info, though as you no longer are using that technology maybe you won’t care!).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks again, JDB, for the thorough explanation. This has been quite the learning experience. I may spend a few days mulling over the various routers before making a decision. My AC68U has worked flawlessly over the last 3 years and so my gut feeling is to stick with ASUS. I’ll post details when I purchase.

 

[L&LD]

Asus has benefited from RMerlin's tweaks almost as much as the RMerlin firmware users. Considering an Asus router is the only sane choice to make for a consumer router (still).

Considering an RMerlin supported router is even better.

https://www.asuswrt-merlin.net/about