Mesh Mashup Redux - NETGEAR's Orbi Checks In

[RogerSC]

Very true. $399 for a product from Netgear, no thanks

Keep in mind that this is essentially a router plus the satellite. More than just a router plus extender, the extra dedicated 5GHz. radio in each unit is what makes it work so well. If you add up all the hardware, they're still overcharging, but not as much as it looks like at first blush.

 

[bodean]

It's netgear, notorious for poor product support / FW updates. Be weary spending money on this companies products. That's all I meant


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[DanH]

.... I configured it in AP mode and left my ubiquity edge lite router in place for routing.

As my girlfriend puts it, "It's like BAM, Internet."

What switch are you using?

 

[thiggins]

Keep in mind that this is essentially a router plus the satellite. More than just a router plus extender, the extra dedicated 5GHz. radio in each unit is what makes it work so well. If you add up all the hardware, they're still overcharging, but not as much as it looks like at first blush.

Can you show your calculation of what it would cost to construct the equivalent to Orbi out of discrete products, i.e. two ac1200 + two ac2600 routers?

 

[sfx2000]

Can you show your calculation of what it would cost to construct the equivalent to Orbi out of discrete products, i.e. two ac1200 + two ac2600 routers?

I think they're in the ballbark with a fair price for what is generally very useful hardware...

The margin compared to garden variety BHR's is much tighter on the mesh oriented solutions due to the need for multiple access points, and one has to consider the R&D and testing expense on the front end...

As some might recall, I've done the BOM deconstructions on several devices over the years.

 

[thiggins]

SFX, I'm not referring to a BOM analysis. I mean buying off the shelf product to create the equivalent.

Here's a quick calc:

2x Linksys EA8500 refurb @ $130 ea = $260
2x Edimax BR-6478AC V2 @ $60 ea = $120
====
$380

Orbi list = $399.

So this backs up RogerSC's assertion.

 

[L&LD]

Tim, your calculations are correct, but the conclusion isn't, imo.

Even comparing to refurbished, 'retail', manufacturers get a lot more discount for raw parts than what the quick calc you did above suggests.

A fair price for the Orbi is just below an RT-AC3100, imo. And they'd still be making money hand over fist (in volume).

For $400, I'd want not only the best coverage/range, but also the most speed (throughput and least latency) along with the most customization options. The Orbi provides neither.

 

[thiggins]

L&LD. Again, I'm not doing a BOM analysis. I'm looking at what it would take someone to create the equivalent of Orbi from off the shelf components.

Manufacturers will always charge what the market will bear. That's the nature of the business and not unique to NETGEAR.

Orbi's weakness is on routing features. For performance, it outperforms all the "mesh" solutions so far and any extender solutions I've tested.

 

[sfx2000]

SFX, I'm not referring to a BOM analysis. I mean buying off the shelf product to create the equivalent.

One has to account for the non-recurrent R&D costs, along with the additional testing (DVT and regulatory) - compared to the BHR's you mention, the costs there have been baked in over multiple generations...

That's the gist of my comment that it is a fair price...

 

[L&LD]

L&LD. Again, I'm not doing a BOM analysis. I'm looking at what it would take someone to create the equivalent of Orbi from off the shelf components.

Manufacturers will always charge what the market will bear. That's the nature of the business and not unique to NETGEAR.

Orbi's weakness is on routing features. For performance, it outperforms all the "mesh" solutions so far and any extender solutions I've tested.

Yes, not a BOM analysis (agreed).

But I too am comparing to off the shelf components too and find them to be too much $ for too little functionality.

Comparing (only) to mesh solutions isn't my goal or the best interest of my customers. Comparing to all available solutions is.

Bottom line, I'd rather spend more if needed (and can justify it to my customers) than buy a narrowly focused product like any single purpose AP, Extender, Repeater or Mesh/Orbi 'solution' that I've seen so far.

I agree wholeheartedly that manufacturers will charge what the market will bear. That doesn't make the product any better than other available options. Just shows how great their marketing department is.

 

[sfx2000]

Bottom line, I'd rather spend more if needed (and can justify it to my customers) than buy a narrowly focused product like any single purpose AP, Extender, Repeater or Mesh/Orbi 'solution' that I've seen so far.

Keep in mind that this product is intended for a specific market - and there it seems to work pretty well...

 

[thiggins]

It's great that Orbi has band steering and even AP steering (perhaps with k/r/v seamless roaming?)

According to NETGEAR 11k and v band steering is supported now. 11r AP to AP roaming coming in a future firmware release.

 

[RogerSC]

Can you show your calculation of what it would cost to construct the equivalent to Orbi out of discrete products, i.e. two ac1200 + two ac2600 routers?

I wasn't thinking exact numbers, just kind of adding up features and my sense of what it costs to get those features. To point out that while $400 is a big number, you are getting something for it. If you would have bought a good router plus a decent extender that doesn't have hardware for the bridge mode backhaul available (lots of them available) for example, you'd pay less, but get less. I don't feel that what Netgear is charging is out of line for what you get. More from a relative sense of what one is getting than exactly what the parts are worth.

 

[pete y testing]

More from a relative sense of what one is getting than exactly what the parts are worth.

well if you figure this correctly what you get is

1 x 1200 ac wireless router

connected by ethernet to

1 x point to point wifi bridge 5 gig 1733 M kit ( this is its dedicated backhaul )

connected by ethernet to

1 x 1200 ac wireless access point

the point to point kit alone would set you back a few hundred

thats why the orbi is different and is the point of difference to all these other mesh system and why it is different to just a router and extender

pete

 

[Mdaniel]

I'm willing to take a chance on it, just waiting for a sale.

$50 off at newegg right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122908&cm_re=Orbi-_-33-122-908-_-Product

 

[DanH]

Tim, your calculations are correct, but the conclusion isn't, imo.

Even comparing to refurbished, 'retail', manufacturers get a lot more discount for raw parts than what the quick calc you did above suggests.

A fair price for the Orbi is just below an RT-AC3100, imo. And they'd still be making money hand over fist (in volume).

For $400, I'd want not only the best coverage/range, but also the most speed (throughput and least latency) along with the most customization options. The Orbi provides neither.

Curious, what would beat the Orbi at range/coverage throughout and latency for $400? Without running wire to a bunch of APs. Is there anything?

 

[L&LD]

Curious, what would beat the Orbi at range/coverage throughout and latency for $400? Without running wire to a bunch of APs. Is there anything?

An RT-AC3100 would probably do it by itself (in an optimally placed location) for most normal home layouts.

An RT-AC68U/RT-AC19ooP with a couple of RT-AC56U's (one in media bridge mode and the other directly connected via LAN to provide wireless to the 'extended' area) would easily too.

As I've hinted before, the Orbi is too narrowly focused to be of much use in the long term (for me or my customers). Even if it seems to solve a very specific problem, now.

$400 is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. But it does open up a lot of options when 'easy to setup' or 'easy on the eyes' isn't a top (or only) priority either.

 

[DanH]

An RT-AC3100 would probably do it by itself (in an optimally placed location) for most normal home layouts.

An RT-AC68U/RT-AC19ooP with a couple of RT-AC56U's (one in media bridge mode and the other directly connected via LAN to provide wireless to the 'extended' area) would easily too.

As I've hinted before, the Orbi is too narrowly focused to be of much use in the long term (for me or my customers). Even if it seems to solve a very specific problem, now.

$400 is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. But it does open up a lot of options when 'easy to setup' or 'easy on the eyes' isn't a top (or only) priority either.

I think I fall in that narrowly focused market. For some reason I can't get wifi from downstairs to my bedroom upstairs with any wifi router downstairs. Unfortunately, I can't run wire for an AP or extender or whatever either. So my only choice is a unwired AP or extender in the hallway upstairs. Any ideas for this situation besides the Orbi? I own the Orbi right now, but if there is something better I can always return it.

 

[L&LD]

What were you using before the Orbi?

 

[DanH]

What were you using before the Orbi?

Asusrt66u I believe.