Mesh system for large home, outdoor patio, and detached shop

[MemphisNoWire]

I'm needing to upgrade my 4 node Orbi mesh system, which I've had for a few years, to something that works better on my patio and detached shop building. I have Sonos in every room, on patio, and in shop. I also have TV on patio. Connection is hit or miss on patio and in shop. The system needs to penetrate brick walls to reach patio and at two to three exterior walls (house and shop) to reach shop. I've studied Asus and TP-Link devices, but can't settle on one. It seems that WiFi 6 might be better than WiFi 6E because of the wall obstacles and distance. The best service coming to my home is ATT Internet 100, so that's probably the bottleneck on speed. I have about 30 total devices. Any ideas?

 

[Tech9]

The system needs to penetrate brick walls to reach patio and at two to three exterior walls (house and shop) to reach shop.

Perhaps none of home "mesh" sets will be significantly better than your Orbi. If it really works through 4-5 walls - it's very good. For something better you need entire new network with indoor and outdoor access points placed in right locations, perhaps wired infrastructure expansion, etc. This can't be done with messages in a public forum. Someone has to come to your place, see what it is, listen to your requirements and suggest proper equipment you don't have to replace every few years. It all depends on the budget and how much free time you have. Testing home "mesh" sets may continue forever.

 

[MemphisNoWire]

I appreciate your advice. Wiring to the shop from the house is not practical based on the quotes I've gotten, the cheapest being $7,000 just for that one segment. Even internal wiring is difficult as my ATT modem is on the second floor and most devices are on the first floor. I may not can solve it with wireless, but nonetheless wanted some informed opinions. Thanks again.

 

[Tech9]

The problem with wall penetration - the client devices will have to penetrate the same obstacles back to the router. Wi-Fi is 2-way communication. You may find a system with higher power or slightly better antennas, but your clients are the limit. It may be somewhat better, but another temporary solution. In my experience Orbi systems shout pretty loud and it's going to be hard to find something similar in size and price and better. If wires are not possible for outdoor and greater distances there are wireless bridges available as well as outdoor access points with higher gain antennas. What brand and model will work well for you - I don't know. Someone has to do assessment on premises. This type of equipment is not on display in hardware stores.

 

[MemphisNoWire]

The Orbi's do work, but sometimes drop the signal. I actually paid a technician to diagnose my needs and determine the best solution with the least amount of wiring. I also paid him to install the Orbi's that he recommended. Maybe he provided the best solution available without wiring. But you've got me thinking that I probably do need to hire an expert again to offer a better solution. Thanks again.

 

[coxhaus]

I ran some CAT5e cable through some black plastic pipe to my neighbor's house so we could play games. It lasted for years until we moved. You just have to remember not to dig through it once it is in the ground.

 

[MemphisNoWire]

Thanks for your suggestion. Due to lots of concrete surface between the house and shop I'm trying to avoid running cable if at all possible.

 

[Tech9]

If 100Mbps Fast Ethernet is good enough speed to the other building - it can be done cheap with 2x Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M5. They can do it in AirMax Point-to-Point bridge configuration, two units are about $150 and can do distances in kilometers. Few hundred meters on 2.4GHz band using 802.11n with high gain antennas - guaranteed link even in rain, snow or fog. If Gigabit Ethernet is what you prefer - it will cost more, Ubiquiti Building Bridge can do up to 500m on 60GHz band using 802.11ad with 5GHz band backup channel using 802.11ac, comes in 2-pack for $660. Also guaranteed link on shorter distances. Still under 10% of your $7000 cable installation quote and can be up and running tomorrow. There other cheaper options like TP-Link Omada EAP211-Bridge, EnGenius ENH500v3 2-pack Kit, as well as numerous less known China origin brands like UeeVii, Adalov, KuWFi, etc.

 

[MemphisNoWire]

That's a very interesting suggestion. I've started studying those devices since receiving your advice. It seems I would need to run cable from the modem / router to the exterior of the house for one of these, and then a cable outlet to the exterior of the shop for the receiving device. I don't understand what is needed to get PoE to the ethernet cable, as I would need such a device on both ends. I don't think the standard mesh router like I have offers that. Also, what's needed to connect the receiving Ubiquiti to the wireless router in the shop? This sounds more promising than running a cable to the shop. I appreciate the idea.

 

[Tech9]

The bridges are PoE powered, PoE injector is included with some devices, others need PoE switch or injector. Small 5-port PoE switches can be found under $40, Ubiquiti PoE injector is like $25. The wireless bridge is transparent for the network, like you have a wired connection. In your shop you need an Assess Point only for your Wi-Fi clients and if PoE switch is used you'll have Ethernet ports as well for wired clients. At the house you can use whatever you want. Something you already have or completely new system. The best option again is someone coming there and doing everything for you, better from a single vendor. Ubiquiti UniFi and TP-Link Omada are popular low cost small business class choices suitable for home installations. Unfortunately, the guy you called before just installed an over the shelf home "mesh" system and didn't bother even offering better options.

 

[Tech9]

Even internal wiring is difficult

Think outside of the box then, literally. When internal wiring is difficult, can you do it externally? Cable channels are available, paintable or even with wood grain pattern. A bunch of Ethernet cables may circle around the house and enter from outside where needed. It can be done as a weekend project. For longer distances there are wireless bridges, but you can also shoot a building with Wi-Fi from outside. Who said the AP has to be inside? NanoStation M5 can be used as long range outdoor Access Point with directional 14dBi antennas and narrow beam. It can serve 5GHz clients hundreds of meters away in line of sight. Just more ideas around options. I don't know what your property looks like and what is needed.

 

[tgl]

I concur with @Tech9 's suggestion to consider Ubiquiti UISP point-to-point devices for your house-to-shop link. They don't necessarily have to be mounted outside; if they're inside, the wall is just something else to punch through. If you're counting those walls in the "two to three walls" estimate then it could work. The NanoStation loco models are about the bottom of their PtP line, so it could be worth considering something slightly pricier, such as the NanoBeam 2AC or 5AC models. (There are even pricier models in their line, but what you're mainly paying for there is the ability to span multiple kilometers between the nodes. Not useful for your case.) I had a pair of NanoBeam 2ACs in my last house that had no difficulty punching through 3 100-year-old oak floors, so I'm pretty sure they would get the job done for you. The 5GHz band would be iffier perhaps --- what composition are the walls that are in the way there?

 

[MemphisNoWire]

Thanks to everyone for the great advice. I'm going to find another local expert to consult with on internal cabling and the wireless bridge. It seems that internal cabling might best support the wireless bridge.

 

[Tech9]

As hardware example - I'm planning Ubiquiti Dream Router + 2x U6 Pro for a new location. UDR has integrated 4-stream Wi-Fi 6 AP, 2x PoE ports and network controller. U6 Pro are matching PoE powered 4-stream Wi-Fi 6 APs. This makes complete UniFi system with 3 devices only, single power supply (will be UPS backed up) and minimum deployment time. This setup is good for up to 700Mbps Internet line with full features enabled, has 2x extra Ethernet ports for further expansion (switch, more APs, bridge, cameras, etc.). UDR can support 20+ UniFi devices, more than enough for home application.

UniFi Dream Router - Tech Specs

Desktop UniFi Cloud Gateway with an integrated WiFi 6 access point and PoE switch.

techspecs.ui.com

UniFi U6 Pro - Tech Specs

Ceiling-mounted WiFi 6 AP with 6 spatial streams designed for large offices.

techspecs.ui.com

 

[coxhaus]

Thanks for your suggestion. Due to lots of concrete surface between the house and shop I'm trying to avoid running cable if at all possible.

If you have to go under a side walk you can use a garden hose to make a hole underneath the sidewalk to run a black water pipe under.

 

[Heino]

The problem with wall penetration - the client devices will have to penetrate the same obstacles back to the router. Wi-Fi is 2-way communication. You may find a system with higher power or slightly better antennas, but your clients are the limit. It may be somewhat better, but another temporary solution. In my experience Orbi systems shout pretty loud and it's going to be hard to find something similar in size and price and better. If wires are not possible for outdoor and greater distances there are wireless bridges available as well as outdoor access points with higher gain antennas. What brand and model will work well for you - I don't know. Someone has to do assessment on premises. This type of equipment is not on display in hardware stores.

very good point, I also tried to solve my coverage issues with testing of "stronger" and "stronger" access points, but the client is always the same ;-)
But still, don't you think that newer access points not only improve transmission power/quality, but also reception and therefore it might be possible to connect some problematic clients better?

 

[Tech9]

AP with better sensitivity may improve the range. Some manufacturers list sensitivity in specs. This is more important than newer or older. Newer are usually better, but not guaranteed. I did some practical experiments with Tx power in the past and up to about 400mW (26dBm) there is throughput increase to the client, but once highly asymmetrical Tx/Rx rates are observed the client is too far already and further increase of AP power doesn't help. Can't beat the physics.

 

[Heino]

I fully agree that a cable is always the best solution, but sometimes it's just not possible...
Do you have a recommendation as to which AP is particularly good in terms of sensitivity?
PS: I'm currently using XT12, but I have stability problems from time to time.

 

[Tech9]

Unfortunately, solving an equation with too many unknown variables is not possible. Asus doesn't list sensitivity in their product specs, you perhaps want to keep your AiMesh setup, your only similar 3-band option for wireless backhaul is GT-AX11000 Pro. Other high-end spider models with AXE or BE radios on 6GHz will perhaps have shorter backhaul range. You have to find own solution including entire new system.

 

[Heino]

Well, I already tested the GT-AX11000 Pro and this weekend also the GT-BE98 - no real improvement
My last hope (and test) from the ASUS product line will be the BQ16...