[Mostly Solved] Huge bufferbloat

[Joshuajackson]

I think they can see your modem on their screen while talking with you, and if your signals/noise are within spec.

So, here is how I think it will go:
They will ask you to remove the AC68U and connect your laptop/PC/game system directly to the modem.
They will try to say everything they can to prevent a truck roll which they are instructed to do.

Stay on the phone with them and visit the same websites you have a problem with. They might say those websites are just busy - in which case you can ask them for some websites to test. Have your laptop or PC or game system ready so you can let them know if anything is out of the ordinary. Be polite but prepared to call back and speak to another person.

They will eventually roll a truck if you are persistent but you have to stay on top of it.

It actually helped a lot they will be checking the line, and they will call me if something is up and if there is they will coming to our place and fix whatever it is. Let's hope this will resolve the issue.

 

[Rich Brown]

No. The 508 kbps is the actual rate your DSL modem is sending to the ISP. (Just as the 8063 kbps is the actual rate the ISP is sending to your DSL modem.)

The overhead bits are a fixed fraction of that, and decrease the actual speed you'll get. There's no way to modify that fact.

 

[Rich Brown]

And a follow-up to my previous note. It's good to keep after your ISP and get them to assure you that the line is operating up-to-spec. If it's not, they can make that part better. However, there's no way to modify the overhead percentage.

But more importantly - it's your router (not the phone line, which @Val D. thought looks pretty good) that's causing the bufferbloat. ISPs don't care about bufferbloat - most don't even acknowledge that it's a thing. The modem/router/wifi combinations they sell are a lowest-cost item for them: you need to find a router that *will* address the bufferbloat problem.

 

[Joshuajackson]

And a follow-up to my previous note. It's good to keep after your ISP and get them to assure you that the line is operating up-to-spec. If it's not, they can make that part better. However, there's no way to modify the overhead percentage.

But more importantly - it's your router (not the phone line, which @Val D. thought looks pretty good) that's causing the bufferbloat. ISPs don't care about bufferbloat - most don't even acknowledge that it's a thing. The modem/router/wifi combinations they sell are a lowest-cost item for them: you need to find a router that *will* address the bufferbloat problem.

Im pretty certain is the line that its causing it the tech guy of bell mts even agreed that its not normal and ill will be contacted shortly if something is wrong. The Ac68U is doing a great job it gets me good performance that i never got with the modem i got from ISP

 

[Rich Brown]

If you're happy with your AC68U, then you should keep going. All the best...

 

[RMerlin]

Your line is indeed set in Interleaved mode, which is sub-optimal in terms of performance (typically, an ISP will use Interleaved mode if the line quality isn't good/stable enough to handle Fastpath). This in itself will add latency.

The other thing that worries me is you very low upstream link rate. That link rate would easily get saturated whenever you download something at full speed, since it's too low compared to your downlink rate (and when downloading, each packet you receive requires you to send back an acknowledgement packet).

Configuring your RT-AC68U to use Adaptive QoS, and configuring download rate at 7000 Kbps and upload rate at 450 Kbps (or 7 Mbps and 0.45 Kbps), and enabling fq_codel as the scheduler is probably as good as you'll be able to get with this connection. If it works better, then experiment with increasing the download rate to 7200-7400

Things to check with your ISP:

- Any reason why you are set on Interleave instead of Fastpath? (they might say it's because of your line quality)
- Is that upstream normal, or are you actually synced at a lower than expected rate? I would expect something closer to 768 Kbps or maybe 1000 Kbps for a 7 Mbps download rate on ADSL.

Also try power cycling the modem, then check again if your link rates increased. If they did, you might have line issues. One of the flaws with DSL is that if there is noise on some channels/frequency bands, the modem/DSLAM will shut down those channels, however if quality improves afterward, they will not automatically re-enable them - a complete resync is required, hence the need for a power cycle.

 

[RMerlin]

Another note: I might have missed it, but is your modem configured in bridge mode, or is it still routing? Because if it's also running as a router, then it might introduce bufferbloat that your Asus router can't do much to resolve. Ideally, you'd want the modem set in bridge mode, and all the routing duties (including PPPoE authentication if your ISP uses that) to be done by the Asus router.

 

[Joshuajackson]

Another note: I might have missed it, but is your modem configured in bridge mode, or is it still routing? Because if it's also running as a router, then it might introduce bufferbloat that your Asus router can't do much to resolve. Ideally, you'd want the modem set in bridge mode, and all the routing duties (including PPPoE authentication if your ISP uses that) to be done by the Asus router.

its in bridge mode

 

[Joshuajackson]

Your line is indeed set in Interleaved mode, which is sub-optimal in terms of performance (typically, an ISP will use Interleaved mode if the line quality isn't good/stable enough to handle Fastpath). This in itself will add latency.

The other thing that worries me is you very low upstream link rate. That link rate would easily get saturated whenever you download something at full speed, since it's too low compared to your downlink rate (and when downloading, each packet you receive requires you to send back an acknowledgement packet).

Configuring your RT-AC68U to use Adaptive QoS, and configuring download rate at 7000 Kbps and upload rate at 450 Kbps (or 7 Mbps and 0.45 Kbps), and enabling fq_codel as the scheduler is probably as good as you'll be able to get with this connection. If it works better, then experiment with increasing the download rate to 7200-7400

Things to check with your ISP:

- Any reason why you are set on Interleave instead of Fastpath? (they might say it's because of your line quality)
- Is that upstream normal, or are you actually synced at a lower than expected rate? I would expect something closer to 768 Kbps or maybe 1000 Kbps for a 7 Mbps download rate on ADSL.

Also try power cycling the modem, then check again if your link rates increased. If they did, you might have line issues. One of the flaws with DSL is that if there is noise on some channels/frequency bands, the modem/DSLAM will shut down those channels, however if quality improves afterward, they will not automatically re-enable them - a complete resync is required, hence the need for a power cycle.

i tried the qos stuff and even lower upload to 0.2 same issue, upload speed is fine that is what i am paying for and our connection is ADSL2+

 

[Val D.]

About 20 years ago I had a DSL modem with like 512k/128k speed (don't remember exactly), then ADSL with 5/1, then ADSL2 with 20/1, etc. and the home routers I was using were miles away technology and performance wise from what we have available today. I've never seen such delays in seconds when one client was using the line since USRobotics V.34 modems time back in 90s. Yes, loading times were accordingly slow with few clients, but it was loading right away and I don't remember page request timeouts.

This is what I would do:

- connect a phone to the line and physically listen for any abnormal sounds like static, cracking, etc.
- check the phone line box outside for corroded connections (if there is access to it)
- check all the phone line connections inside the home (if possible)
- try on a different phone plug (if they are more then one)
- make sure there is no line splitters (just the filter before the modem) or anything else attached to the line
- replace the cables between the phone jack and the filter and between the filter and the modem (just in case)
- reset the modem and re-configure it again with the ISP provided account settings (if they provided such info)
- test with a single wired client with the ISP modem/router in router mode
- test the same with a different modem/router as a last resort, compare line stats with ISP modem

If it's still bad, nothing much can be done on the user side and no QoS will help.

 

[Joshuajackson]

About 20 years ago I had a DSL modem with like 512k/128k speed (don't remember exactly), then ADSL with 5/1, then ADSL2 with 20/1, etc. and the home routers I was using were miles away technology and performance wise from what we have available today. I've never seen such delays in seconds when one client was using the line since USRobotics V.34 modems time back in 90s. Yes, loading times were accordingly slow with few clients, but it was loading right away and I don't remember page request timeouts.

This is what I would do:

- connect a phone to the line and physically listen for any abnormal sounds like static, cracking, etc.
- check the phone line box outside for corroded connections (if there is access to it)
- check all the phone line connections inside the home (if possible)
- try on a different phone plug (if they are more then one)
- make sure there is no line splitters (just the filter before the modem) or anything else attached to the line
- replace the cables between the phone jack and the filter and between the filter and the modem (just in case)
- reset the modem and re-configure it again with the ISP provided account settings (if they provided such info)
- test with a single wired client with the ISP modem/router in router mode
- test the same with a different modem/router as a last resort, compare line stats with ISP modem

If it's still bad, nothing much can be done on the user side and no QoS will help.

- connect a phone to the line and physically listen for any abnormal sounds like static, cracking, etc. - No sounds
- check the phone line box outside for corroded connections (if there is access to it) - We dont have any theres just a box attached to the roof and wire directs to power poll and one wire in basement for DSL to the filter (splitter)
- check all the phone line connections inside the home (if possible) - Got no phone just DSL is attached to it
- try on a different phone plug (if they are more then one) - Phone cable from modem directly attached to the filter
- make sure there is no line splitters (just the filter before the modem) or anything else attached to the line - i think there is but just modem attached to it and the line cable that is attached to box outside
- replace the cables between the phone jack and the filter and between the filter and the modem (just in case) - thinking about doing that not sure if we are allowed though.
- reset the modem and re-configure it again with the ISP provided account settings (if they provided such info) - done that dozen times
- test with a single wired client with the ISP modem/router in router mode - also done that dozen times
- test the same with a different modem/router as a last resort, compare line stats with ISP modem - ordered one still waiting for it to arrive.

 

[Val D.]

I'm running out of ideas, my friend.
Ask the ISP to switch you on a Fastpath, as @RMerlin suggested, but I'm in doubt there will be much of improvement.

 

[Joshuajackson]

I'm running out of ideas, my friend.
Ask the ISP to switch you on a Fastpath, as @RMerlin suggested, but I'm in doubt there will be much of improvement.

Oh and BTW, i did mention it to them about Interleave and Fastpath, he said what is that? lmfao

 

[Joshuajackson]

and yeah im also running out of ideas, this is very frustrating if im being honest

 

[Val D.]

Oh and BTW, i did mention it to them about Interleave and Fastpath, he said what is that? lmfao

Bell used to call me from India and offer me "the most secure virus-free Internet", so no wonder. I told them next time they call I'll complain because my number is in "Do not call list" and I don't have any business with Bell. Now they send me paper letters every few months with ridiculous downgrade offers.

 

[Joshuajackson]

Bell used to call me from India and offer me "the most secure virus-free Internet", so no wonder. I told them next time they call I'll complain because my number is in "Do not call list" and I don't have any business with Bell. Now they send me paper letters every few months with ridiculous downgrade offers.

Yeah thats just stupid, worst support ever if you have problems. I could barely understand the guy on the phone because he had such bad english no offence.

 

[heysoundude]

Any other Internet connection possibilities in your area, different than ADSL?

This ^ is an excellent question. Bell MTS indicates Maritimes to me, fellow Canadians...doesn't teksavvy or start.ca offer service over pretty much ANY Bell line in Canada.
If Mr Jackson is getting no traction with Ma Bell, I'd bet teksavvy can get that truck to roll on his behalf.

 

[Val D.]

doesn't teksavvy or start.ca offer service over pretty much ANY Bell line in Canada.

Both use Bell infrastructure for DSL connections, same exchange, same modems. They are same service re-sellers only. If the line is the issue, switching providers on the same line with the same equipment won't solve the problem. You complain to 3rd party ISPs, they forward your complain to Bell, Bell gives them an answer everything is OK, 3rd party ISP forwards the answer to you, etc. going in a loop for no reason. Makes the situation even worse.

 

[Joshuajackson]

Both use Bell infrastructure for DSL connections, same exchange, same modems. They are same service re-sellers only. If the line is the issue, switching providers on the same line with the same equipment won't solve the problem. You complain to 3rd party ISPs, they forward your complain to Bell, Bell gives them an answer everything is OK, 3rd party ISP forwards the answer to you, etc. going in a loop for no reason. Makes the situation even worse.

The thing is it's hard to believe that everything is ok because obv it is not

Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk

 

[Val D.]

The thing is it's hard to believe that everything is ok because obv it is not

Is there a chance to request a Bell technician visit and show him what the problem actually is?