Need help/advice fix old router get new one?

[Dorian Chamorro]

I have been experiencing alot of lag and packet loss ,which after some research i diagnosed as being caused by excessive bufferbloat. I ended up downloading asuswrt Merlin. And using fq_codel.
It significantly reduced my bufferbloat from a D rating to a B. And helped with packet loss.

But has not fully solved the issue .
I have tried adaptive qos which gives me the highest bandwidth throughput
But still get some high bufferbloat.

And i have tried bandwidth limiter which gives me the best results most of the time but it halfs my total speed no matter what i set the limit to .

I have seen in other posts that people say to change their CC /congestion control.
But i have no such setting or its named something else and i don't realize it.

I have the ASUS RT-AC88U .
My question is ,is there anything i can do with the TCP/udp or other settings to fix this issue.

Or should i upgrade to a newer router
And which one . I am looking at the asus gt-ax11000 / the tp link ax11000 or nighthawk ax 11000. But im not sure which one if any will improve bufferbloat performanc.

I know they are all good wifi routers im not concerned with that . I want to know which one will preform best with a hardline link and give me the best and most consistent gaming experience.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions/assistance.

 

[oso2276]

What is your internet speed?

Depending on your speed needs you might want to go to an Edge router lite ERL3 and configure smart queue on the WAN port. That solution solved my gaming issues.

Check this:
https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/best-gaming-router/

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[Dorian Chamorro]

What is your internet speed?

Depending on your speed needs you might want to go to an Edge router lite ERL3 and configure queue on the WAN port. That solution solved my gaming issues.

Check this:
https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/best-gaming-router/

Enviado desde mi moto g(8) plus mediante Tapatalk

610 down 18up

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

What is your internet speed?

Depending on your speed needs you might want to go to an Edge router lite ERL3 and configure queue on the WAN port. That solution solved my gaming issues.

Check this:
https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/best-gaming-router/

Enviado desde mi moto g(8) plus mediante Tapatalk

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

From what i understand you have to know alot to set those up, i believe it beyond im basic knowledge to set on one

 

[oso2276]

610 down 18up

With edge router Smart queue you trade throughput for better latency.

Given the speed, I would go to an edge router 4 ER4

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[oso2276]

From what i understand you have to know alot to set those up, i believe it beyond im basic knowledge to set on one

I had mine running and I did not know much at the time.

For example I did my initial setup following this guide:
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lan...ow-to-configure-your-ubiquiti-edgerouter-lite

Then I added specific tweaks searching.

Not as ease as doing the same stuff on an Asus router, but they do work. Just have to remember to upgrade to latest firmware v1.10.10 (as today) and follow initial configuration and enable Smart queue

My current setup

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[Trip]

600+ Mb/s download is approaching the point where SQM is less and less needed, but that 18 Mb/s upload is going to be an issue. If you want to run duplex SQM (so ~640Mb/s aggregate), you're going to need x86 CPU power. No ARM or MIPS based product will drive that much non-offloadable traffic; this includes plug-and-play stuff like an IQRouter or Eero in all its forms, as well as SMB hardware like a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 4/6/12. A workaround would be to only enable SQM on upload, which does the lion's share of limiting bufferbloat anyways.

Re- hardware choices, I've noticed Broadcom-based consumer gear is a mixed bag when trying to run SQM. You might be able to coax a bit better results out of Merlin by messing with freshjr's QoS scripts, tweaking more settings, etc. After that, though, I'd switch to a Qualcomm-based product (like a Netgear R7800 or Zyxel Armor Z2) and run OpenWRT. As a bonus, you'll typically get higher quality wifi from Qualcomm (all other specs held equal, of course). Most model-specific images of OpenWRT come with LuCi, the web GUI, ready to go, so it's about as easy as installing and running DD-WRT, Tomato or any other GUI-based custom firmware. CAKE and/or fq_codel should actually work as intended. But again, you'll still be CPU-limited to about 400-ish Mb/s aggregate with SQM active, which is why enabling on upload only may be the best strategy if you simply must stick with a consumer all-in-one.

A note on VPN: Qualcomm does lack hardware offload for traditional VPN, but you could look into switching away from OpenVPN to WireGuard, which is generally easier to setup, is way lighter on CPU (usually enabling line-rate VPN speeds even on consumer gear), tunnels are faster to establish and the protocol is more resilient in general.

The other option is of course discrete components: wired router (in your case, x86-based firewall running something like pfSense), discrete PoE switch(es) and business-class wireless APs. That's how you build a network that will run more like an appliance and less like a toy. Perfectly understandable, though, if you just want to K.I.S.S. and stick with an all-in-one and/or plug-and-play products.

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

With edge router Smart queue you trade throughput for better latency.

Given the speed, I would go to an edge router 4 ER4

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how hard or easy is it to set up an edge router from what little I've looked up you need to know a lot about networking is that true or is it from what Plug and Play

 

[Trip]

An EdgeRouter is anything but plug and play. That said, it does come with some helpful quick-start wizards and there are tons of YouTube videos, blogs and KB guides on how to set up EdgeOS devices, but yeah, if you're a complete novice and run into an issue(s), fixing it is going to be on you. There's no number to call and no one who will directly hold your hand through the process.

Let's put it this way: on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most difficult, if the average person were to rate setting up a consumer all-in-one a 2 or 3, then an EdgeRouter setup coupled with connecting an all-in-one re-purposed as an access point (your AC88U) would be about a 8 or 9. If you're willing to spend some time learning and think you'd be adept and persistent enough to figure it out, you'd probably think it was more like a 5 to 7. Doable, but not without a an hour (or a few) invested in learning and possibly a bit of trial-and-error. Hope that helps.

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

An EdgeRouter is anything but plug and play. That said, it does come with some helpful quick-start wizards and there are tons of YouTube videos, blogs and KB guides on how to set up EdgeOS devices, but yeah, if you're a complete novice and run into an issue(s), fixing it is going to be on you. There's no number to call and no one who will directly hold your hand through the process.

Let's put it this way: on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most difficult, if the average person were to rate setting up a consumer all-in-one a 2 or 3, then an EdgeRouter setup coupled with connecting an all-in-one re-purposed as an access point (your AC88U) would be about a 8 or 9. If you're willing to spend some time learning and think you'd be adept and persistent enough to figure it out, you'd probably think it was more like a 5 to 7. Doable, but not without a an hour (or a few) invested in learning and possibly a bit of trial-and-error. Hope that helps.

Ahh ok, i think im probably at a 5 on that scale. And i probably could learn it from what you have told me , im just not sure i want to invest that much time and effort lol i
Was hoping for a simpler solution. I.e tweak a setting on my router. Or B buying a newer one would fix it. If my only route to fixing the problem is the edge router than soo be it . But i would prefer something less involved lol

 

[Trip]

I completely hear you. One might think it almost a market opportunity to come out with a product that was built on x86 hardware, had enterprise-capable feature set, including SQM, but with Asus/Netgear/TP-Link ease-of-use on the surface level (dead-simple web GUI, phone app, etc.). Guess it's much easier said than done, and/or the market volume / profitability just isn't there.

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

I completely hear you. One might think it almost a market opportunity to come out with a product that was built on x86 hardware, had enterprise-capable feature set, including SQM, but with Asus/Netgear/TP-Link ease-of-use on the surface level (dead-simple web GUI, phone app, etc.). Guess it's much easier said than done, and/or the market volume / profitability just isn't there.

I hear that lol id buy it ! In a heartbeat

 

[oso2276]

After this discussion, I'm wondering how DD-WRT will work on an industrial small PC?

I'm assuming install will be similar to command line Linux install. I'm wondering if smart queue is available in this platform. Need to check on this

Enviado desde mi moto g(8) plus mediante Tapatalk

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

600+ Mb/s download is approaching the point where SQM is less and less needed, but that 18 Mb/s upload is going to be an issue. If you want to run duplex SQM (so ~640Mb/s aggregate), you're going to need x86 CPU power. No ARM or MIPS based product will drive that much non-offloadable traffic; this includes plug-and-play stuff like an IQRouter or Eero in all its forms, as well as SMB hardware like a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 4/6/12. A workaround would be to only enable SQM on upload, which does the lion's share of limiting bufferbloat anyways.

Re- hardware choices, I've noticed Broadcom-based consumer gear is a mixed bag when trying to run SQM. You might be able to coax a bit better results out of Merlin by messing with freshjr's QoS scripts, tweaking more settings, etc. After that, though, I'd switch to a Qualcomm-based product (like a Netgear R7800 or Zyxel Armor Z2) and run OpenWRT. As a bonus, you'll typically get higher quality wifi from Qualcomm (all other specs held equal, of course). Most model-specific images of OpenWRT come with LuCi, the web GUI, ready to go, so it's about as easy as installing and running DD-WRT, Tomato or any other GUI-based customer firmware. CAKE and/or fq_codel should actually work as intended. But again, you'll still be CPU-limited to about 400-ish Mb/s aggregate with SQM active, which is why enabling on upload only may be the best strategy if you simply must stick with a consumer all-in-one.

A note on VPN: Qualcomm does lack hardware offload for traditional VPN, but you could look into switching away from OpenVPN to WireGuard, which is generally easier to setup, is way lighter on CPU (usually enabling line-rate VPN speeds even on consumer gear), tunnels are faster to establish and the protocol is more resilient in general.

The other option is of course discrete components: wired router (in your case, x86-based firewall running something like pfSense), discrete PoE switch(es) and business-class wireless APs. That's how you build a network that will run more like an appliance and less like a toy. Perfectly understandable, though, if you just want to K.I.S.S. and stick with an all-in-one and/or plug-and-play products.

So i saw that the gt-ax11000 it has link aggregation, would enabling that and splitting the load between the two and limiting bandwidth to the pc fix yhe issue?

 

[Trip]

I'm not sure you're understanding the concept of link aggregation correctly. LACP is designed to combine multiple interfaces into a single "pipe" with the combined throughput all members interfaces. The main traffic flow benefit is the potential to un-bottlebeck a link that was previously too narrow, but that still doesn't give you faster internet by itself, and so ultimately does nothing to combat bufferbloat on the WAN interface. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

I'm not sure you're understanding the concept of link aggregation correctly. LACP is designed to combine multiple interfaces into a single "pipe" with the combined throughput all members interfaces. The main traffic flow benefit is the potential to un-bottlebeck a link that was previously too narrow, but that still doesn't give you faster internet by itself, and so ultimately does nothing to combat bufferbloat on the WAN interface. Hope that makes sense.

Updated i decided to get the nighthawk ax12
After doing some research and the recommendation to go with a Qualcomm device.
It has a specific upstream qos setting. After setting it my bufferbloat is perfect i have A+ on everything on DSLR REPORT thank very much for all the help

 

[Dorian Chamorro]

After this discussion, I'm wondering how DD-WRT will work on an industrial small PC?

I'm assuming install will be similar to command line Linux install. I'm wondering if smart queue is available in this platform. Need to check on this

Enviado desde mi moto g(8) plus mediante Tapatalk

Updated i decided to get the nighthawk ax12
After doing some research and the recommendation to go with a Qualcomm device.
It has a specific upstream qos setting. After setting it my bufferbloat is perfect i have A+ on everything on DSLR REPORT thank very much for all the help

 

[oso2276]

Updated i decided to get the nighthawk ax12
After doing some research and the recommendation to go with a Qualcomm device.
It has a specific upstream qos setting. After setting it my bufferbloat is perfect i have A+ on everything on DSLR REPORT thank very much for all the help

Nice [emoji106]

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[Trip]

You're welcome! Glad it worked out!