Networking over Home Power Infra.

[jalyst]

What's the best performing & most reliable/stable standard nowadays for this kinda thing?
Is HomePlug still where it's at? Is there still more than one competing standard?

Thank-you.

 

[peaks]

Homeplug is where it's at. Best deal is a used TP-Link TL-PA6010KIT for about $50. It's almost the fastest. You might get a little more speed from the new MIMO AV1200 models which cost twice as much. All have better than 100baseT potential performance over the power line, and gigE ports. TP-Link gives me 70mbit actual throughput to my garage which is at least 200 ft of random home power wiring away from the main router. Throughput drops with different types of interference in the power line, but it stays above 30mbit. That said, i wish i could run cat-6, but i can't.

I tried wifi point-to-point bridge and got it to work but it's much more complicated than Homeplug and has even more variability. That said, it was a 300mbit link and provided 100mbit real throughput to the garage, so it was faster, just less reliable. Switched back to Homeplug because i didn't need speed as much as stability.

 

[jalyst]

So HomePlug is the only standard nowadays?
Which vendors are leading this standard for HOME/SOHO enthusiasts, Zyxel & TPLink IYO?

Actually the AV1200 doesn't seem pricey to me at all, if this is what you meant:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QIH1OOK/?tag=snbforums-20

Thanks for your insights thus far, 430am now, I'll respond in more detail later, bed time.

 

[thiggins]

Homeplug and HPNA are not the same thing. If by the latter, you mean phoneline networking, it is alive, but used in hotels and other MDU applications, i.e. not consumer.

Most of the major networking players are producing HomePlug AV2 SISO and MIMO adapters. ZyXEL was first, but others are now starting to ship products.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/charts/powerline/view

G.hn AKA HomeGrid is the other potential contender. But it isn't interoperable with HomePlug and how well it coexists remains to be seen. Comtrend has a G.hn powerline adapter. Nothing yet from the usual suspects.

 

[jalyst]

Sounds like their intent is to eventually completely replace HPNA with G.hn...
http://www2.smartbrief.com/news/aaaa/industryBW-detail.jsp?id=045AB37A-CC0F-4F09-A67A-ACED0206B8EB
http://www.homepna.org/merger/HomeGridForum_and_HomePNA_Announce_Merger.pdf
Perhaps have struggled for as much visibility as HomePlug due to supporting networking via coaxial & twisted-pair but not powerlines.

In theory G.hn sounds compelling....
I'd love to see a standard that consolidates all three mediums & gives us devices that do all three really well.
Alas it doesn't seem to have taken-off, hopefully it gets more traction soon, or HomePlug moves that way?

 

[thoma]

There is something appealing about a single standard that can run on all three mediums: coax, powerline, and phoneline.

However, the merger of HomePNA with HomeGrid is basically a merger of two losers. They've lost to the competition on all three fronts:

• HomePNA lost to MoCA in coax networking.
• Phoneline networking mostly faded away, except for applications where VDSL2 also works.
• HomeGrid (G.hn) lost to HomePlug in powerline networking.

There's also the problem that HomePlug also runs over any wired medium. There are companies that make HomePlug-over-coax and HomePlug-over-phoneline adapters. They're not that popular, but they do exist. However, even Qualcomm seems to have recognized that its expansion into coax has not succeeded:

• The AR7400 brochure says "Supports up to 500 Mbps PHY rates over powerline and 700 Mbps PHY rates over coax" and mentions coax 5 times.
• The QCA7500 brochure says "Gigabit-class speeds over electrical wiring" and doesn't mention coax at all.

The nVoy hybrid networking standard that's currently under development includes Ethernet, Wi-Fi, HomePlug, and MoCA. This is a fairly accurate summary of the market situation today: HomeGrid is missing, phoneline is missing, and HomePlug has little hope of unseating MoCA.

 

[peaks]

If you want the fastest available, it looks like its the new D-Link AV2000 Homeplug, going for $138 on Amazon right now. I'm holding off on replacing my TP-Link AV600 until Tim reviews the D-Link AV2000 and the Netgear AV1200....without real-world testing it's all marketing when the numbers get this big.

 

[coxhaus]

I hope Tim mentions whether they support VLAN tags. I think most do but it is hard to dig out of his reviews. My current homeplug adds 2 ms to cross my house so latency is more important to me. I would like to reduce this to 1ms. Bandwidth is not as big of an issue with me as I only rarely max my connections out.

 

[thiggins]

I hope Tim mentions whether they support VLAN tags. I think most do but it is hard to dig out of his reviews. My current homeplug adds 2 ms to cross my house so latency is more important to me. I would like to reduce this to 1ms. Bandwidth is not as big of an issue with me as I only rarely max my connections out.

I don't check for this. Not all products ship with utilities that you'd need to set it if they did.
How is VLAN going to solve latency?

 

[thiggins]

If you want the fastest available, it looks like its the new D-Link AV2000 Homeplug, going for $138 on Amazon right now. I'm holding off on replacing my TP-Link AV600 until Tim reviews the D-Link AV2000 and the Netgear AV1200....without real-world testing it's all marketing when the numbers get this big.

Don't get suckered by the "biggest number on the box". I don't know yet which AV2 profile it implements. It would have to be AV2 MIMO 1.5 Gbps profile to have a shot at significant performance difference.

And like Wi-Fi, throughput falls off very quickly with distance.

 

[coxhaus]

I don't check for this. Not all products ship with utilities that you'd need to set it if they did.
How is VLAN going to solve latency?

They are not related. I need VLAN support and I would like to lower my latency. I would think VLAN support would be nice if you are supporting a guest VLAN and since we are extending wireless devices with Homplug they go hand and hand.

 

[coxhaus]

The other homeplug thing which I did was run three of these devices. I had one at each end of my house and the one in the middle which fed the main switch. Do they all run in groups of three?

 

[jalyst]

i don't plan on posting reviews--i myself am waiting to see Tim's! aside from that we are reading same marketing specs.

Well, of course....

But actually I was asking: which units that you know of, currently have the best specs/perf. "on face value"?
Alas I've no time to wait for whenever Tim's reviews might be, I'll have to go by each product's claims.
As long as they're stipulating certain standards that they're meeting/exceeding, that'll have to do...

 

[peaks]

I didn't get emailed about all these extra posts, thanks for the input folks, will be deciding tomorrow hopefully!



So alongside the zyxel, these are likely to be the fastest, when do you reckon the reviews will be up?



Yeah for the build/env. I'll be deploying these, I suspect that'll usually (not always) be more important for me too.



I don't suppose you've got a bunch of reviews almost baked for the latest wave of top-end HomePlug devices?

dlink is the fastest spec'd version out there by far.

 

[jalyst]

dlink is the fastest spec'd version out there by far.

This? Google search doesn't bring it up on Amazon as you said, I'll have a search of Amazon itself soon:
http://www.cnet.com/products/d-link-powerline-av2-2000-gigabit-network-extender-kit-dhp-701av/

Don't get suckered by the "biggest number on the box". I don't know yet which AV2 profile it implements. It would have to be AV2 MIMO 1.5 Gbps profile to have a shot at significant performance difference

If I ask Dlink directly if it implements this profile, are they likely to oblige me w.a clear-cut answer?
I don't have time to wait for comparative reviews amongst all the current top-end units.

Thank-you.

 

[L&LD]

If you don't have time for comparative reviews, then you'll need to do them yourself. Buy as many samples of different products as you can afford and also have time to test within the return period.

Relying on manufacturer's 'clear-cut' answers and marketing claims is like asking the devil if you can trust him with your life. You know the answer to that one and no one will believe a manufacturer wanting to make one more sale at any cost either.

Test in your environment and keep what proves to be best.

 

[L&LD]

So, you like to gamble then?

I still suggest to not go by theoretical assumptions and pure marketing propaganda. If you're set to sell / upgrade anyways eventually, buy the current best that is known today and upgrade if / when hard data actually supports that move.

 

[thiggins]

So, you like to gamble then?

I still suggest to not go by theoretical assumptions and pure marketing propaganda. If you're set to sell / upgrade anyways eventually, buy the current best that is known today and upgrade if / when hard data actually supports that move.

My thought exactly.

 

[jalyst]

Sorry, that was a very rushed response, multitasking ATM...

I meant I'd go with whatever's theoretically the best in the charts right now...
Plus also whatever's potentially the best in the field* right now, but that's as far as my regimen would go.

Tim, did you see my post directed at you, I don't suppose you can spare a minute to address it?

Thank-you.
*i.e the product with "biggest no" that hasn't yet been properly lab tested, like the dlink mentioned earlier in this thread

 

[thiggins]

Tim, did you see my post directed at you, I don't suppose you can spare a minute to address it?

I don't know what D-Link will do. Even if you know the profile used, the product has to be tested to see if makes a significant difference.