New Home Wifi Solution

[bmather9]

I recently purchased my first home and am planning to run Cat6 throughout. At the same time I'll be setting up my wifi access points at strategic locations to get full coverage over my house and back yard. The house is not enormous at 2400 sq ft, but I don't want to compromise with weak signal in some areas. So based on testing with my current Linksys WRT-600N, I'm fairly certain using 1 standard wireless router will not cut it.

My main concern is with wifi roaming between multiple access points. I've had issues with this before where "sticky clients" would remain connected to a weaker access point. Both my wife and I do a fair amount of video chatting and I've seen plenty of problems with dropping a video chat while trying to transition from one WAP to another. I've seen the Unifi WAPs that have seamless roaming, but unfortunately their 802.11ac products are quite expensive.

So my primary dilemma is do I go with Unifi 802.11n WAPs or consumer 802.11ac routers as WAPs? Or is there another solution that I don't know about?

Thanks for the help in advance!

 

[TonyH]

Hi,
I'd get one of current AC router available and try it alone first. New ones have better
radios. WRT600N can be used as AP if and when new router alone is not satisfactory.
Is this one level ranch type house? I live in a 2 story(~3000sq.ft.) fully developed house. One router is enough for our needs. WRT600N will take dd-wrt f/w very easy.

 

[stevech]

ease of moving among access points - is mostly an issue for the client devices (in consumer WiFi).

Some people elect to have each AP use a different SSID. That way, client device users can select the "best" AP, since often, client device pick the first-heard, then stay with it even though there's a much better/closer AP now, due to user mobility.

 

[remixedcat]

The only way to get seemless roaming between APs is to get enterprise level hardware that has layer 3 roaming

 

[bmather9]

Hi,
I'd get one of current AC router available and try it alone first. New ones have better
radios. WRT600N can be used as AP if and when new router alone is not satisfactory.
Is this one level ranch type house? I live in a 2 story(~3000sq.ft.) fully developed house. One router is enough for our needs. WRT600N will take dd-wrt f/w very easy.

I may give it a shot with a single AC WAP but my tests with the Wrt600n were mediocre. I am running Ddwrt on it.

It is a ranch style house, with bonus room over garage.

 

[bmather9]

ease of moving among access points - is mostly an issue for the client devices (in consumer WiFi).

Some people elect to have each AP use a different SSID. That way, client device users can select the "best" AP, since often, client device pick the first-heard, then stay with it even though there's a much better/closer AP now, due to user mobility.

I have tried different SsIds in the past and feel that it is really annoying. Guaranteed to drop a video chat while changing SsIds.

 

[bmather9]

The only way to get seemless roaming between APs is to get enterprise level hardware that has layer 3 roaming

Yea this is true from what I can tell, and the Unifi WAPs are the best cost effective solution I've found in this category.

 

[stevech]

I have tried different SsIds in the past and feel that it is really annoying. Guaranteed to drop a video chat while changing SsIds.

That's right. But it's a tradeoff, e.g., you are in the left wing of the house, go to the right wing (with your tablet) where there's another AP - and the dumb tablet client struggles to continue to use the AP on the opposite side of the house.

Fast handoff (roaming) without disrupting streaming VoIP or video - takes an enterprise controller based system ($$$).

 

[bmather9]

That's right. But it's a tradeoff, e.g., you are in the left wing of the house, go to the right wing (with your tablet) where there's another AP - and the dumb tablet client struggles to continue to use the AP on the opposite side of the house.

Fast handoff (roaming) without disrupting streaming VoIP or video - takes an enterprise controller based system ($$$).

Rather than switch SSIDs I'd prefer to cycle power to wifi if the client is sticking. That way at least there is a chance that it will swap APs on its own before I have to manually swap them.

Zero handof roaming seems to cost less than $200 with the Unifi solution; maybe you should check it out. Other forums seem to have good reviews on the system. However as I previously said, their 802.11ac equipment is quite expensive. It seems not require a controller running at all times, just for the setup.

 

[azazel1024]

The Unify is fairly good from everything I have heard. It isn't perfect though, it deffinitely won't give you 11ac speeds and from everything I have heard, the coverage is only okay. That means, what, say, a pair of good 11ac routers might cover, could take 3-4 Unifies.

Now, I have NO practical experience with them, only 2nd hand from people who have used/installed the systems.

I have no idea if their hand-off is truely seamless enough to handle something like VOIP without any drops. I'd say yes, it is...but I have zero actual experience with them.

The only clients I've used that just absolutely suck as switching are my kids inexpensive Android tablets. My iOS devices are all fine as are my windows devices. The former can't be tweaked at all, but are fine, the later every wifi driver I have ever seen can be tweaked and usually works pretty similarly with similar settings (IE won't be that sticky).

No client device without hand-off will be 100% seamless or super duper fast. However, my windows clients with roaming set to the most aggressive settings usually switch within a handful of seconds, or faster sometimes, when moving toward the stronger AP once you hit the appropriate SSID strength point (lets call it when AP1 goes from 4-5 out of 5 bars to 3 and AP2 goes from 1-3 bars to 4.

VOIP can sometimes be problematic. Voice chat is less problematic, though often results in a 1-3 second pause in the conversation, but I rarely have drops transitioning between my 3 APs.

 

[azazel1024]

My house is also a rancher, about 2400sq-ft as well. Built in 1961. No bonus room over the garage though, though in a couple of years I plan to rip the garage down and rebuild a slightly larger one with a master suite over it. It has a basement though, not sure if your's does or not, and that is included in my 2400sq-ft measurement. Its about 1350sq-ft on the main level and 1100sq-ft basement.

Between being two level and also because there is a giant masonry fireplace dividing up a lot of my house, there isn't a good place to place one AP to actually cover the entire house. So I have one in my basement office at one corner of the house and I have one on the main level on the opposite end of the house. I then have one in my garage with the antennas on 3' pigtails sticking through the side of my garage to give me coverage of my backyard, since the indoor APs only cover about half of the backyard with really weak coverage. With that setup, the garage/outdoor AP covers my entire back yard (about half an acre) with medium to strong coverage and the indoor APs actually give decent coverage to the front and sides of my yard...not nearly as good as the backyard gets now...but okay enough over enough of the front yard.

 

[bmather9]

My house is also a rancher, about 2400sq-ft as well. Built in 1961. No bonus room over the garage though, though in a couple of years I plan to rip the garage down and rebuild a slightly larger one with a master suite over it. It has a basement though, not sure if your's does or not, and that is included in my 2400sq-ft measurement. Its about 1350sq-ft on the main level and 1100sq-ft basement.

Between being two level and also because there is a giant masonry fireplace dividing up a lot of my house, there isn't a good place to place one AP to actually cover the entire house. So I have one in my basement office at one corner of the house and I have one on the main level on the opposite end of the house. I then have one in my garage with the antennas on 3' pigtails sticking through the side of my garage to give me coverage of my backyard, since the indoor APs only cover about half of the backyard with really weak coverage. With that setup, the garage/outdoor AP covers my entire back yard (about half an acre) with medium to strong coverage and the indoor APs actually give decent coverage to the front and sides of my yard...not nearly as good as the backyard gets now...but okay enough over enough of the front yard.

I have 2400 sq feet 1 story, without basement. There is however a bonus room above the garage. No masonry fireplace, all interior walls are drywall.

My real decision boils down to if I want seamless roaming with 802.11n, or if I want 802.11ac and have to deal with roaming issues. Right now I'm leaning towards the seamless roaming.

 

[stevech]

without special client side software, there's no way to assure that a client chooses a specific AP. The lightly managed APs can collaborate via the LAN, but they cannot DIRECT a client to use a specific AP - without collaborating special software on the client. This is what elaborate enterprise WiFi does.

 

[bmather9]

without special client side software, there's no way to assure that a client chooses a specific AP. The lightly managed APs can collaborate via the LAN, but they cannot DIRECT a client to use a specific AP - without collaborating special software on the client. This is what elaborate enterprise WiFi does.

It sounds like the Unifi solution does this somehow without special software on the client.

 

[stevech]

It sounds like the Unifi solution does this somehow without special software on the client.

About all it can do is reject the association request from the client - having agreed to do so with some other AP via backdoor messages on the LAN. So the client might react to the rejection by trying another AP. Might.

 

[bmather9]

About all it can do is reject the association request from the client - having agreed to do so with some other AP via backdoor messages on the LAN. So the client might react to the rejection by trying another AP. Might.

Doesn't sound like it "might" work from what I read in the reviews on smallnetbuilder.com and other forums, it seems like it works very well.

Although I haven't tried it myself, it seems pretty clear that seamless roaming does work without special client software using Unifi WAPs.

From the review, it seems to say that all the APs appear as one with the same Mac address so there is no need for the client to reassociate with a different WAP. Honestly I have no idea how it works but it seems quite awesome.

I'd love to hear an explanation as to how it works.

 

[remixedcat]

Cisco/Cisco Meraki has L3 roaming as well. Works great. Lots of hotels/hospitals have that. The WLC has the software that manages this. Meraki does it with a VM or security appliance so no seperate controller hardware is needed. But Cisco has a WLC that manages the roaming, etc.

 

[bmather9]

Cisco/Cisco Meraki has L3 roaming as well. Works great. Lots of hotels/hospitals have that. The WLC has the software that manages this. Meraki does it with a VM or security appliance so no seperate controller hardware is needed. But Cisco has a WLC that manages the roaming, etc.

One quick look, and it seems their cheapest AP costs $400. No thanks.

The Unifi AP's seem to run about $80.

 

[remixedcat]

Thing is ubiquity is not as polished and has some shaky hardware from what I've heard.

Also the mall here uses them and nobody can ever connect. The mall management is like 'good luck trying to get connected I can't even connect on all 5 of my phones' I mabye only seen one person with a macbook in all the years I've shopped here managed to connect to thier wifi. LOL. I managed to only get connected once on a dell laptop.

 

[bmather9]

Thing is ubiquity is not as polished and has some shaky hardware from what I've heard.

Also the mall here uses them and nobody can ever connect. The mall management is like 'good luck trying to get connected I can't even connect on all 5 of my phones' I mabye only seen one person with a macbook in all the years I've shopped here managed to connect to thier wifi. LOL. I managed to only get connected once on a dell laptop.

That's the first I've heard of problems with the Unifi stuff, other than some mixed reviews about their newest 802.11ac AP which costs too much for me anyway. Everything else I've seen says they're rock solid.

Who know how that mall is managing them anyway, maybe they have some settings wrong or old firmware?

The bottom line is, I think I'm going with 802.11n Unifi, unless someone can make a case for using consumer grade 802.11ac routers.