New Router - R7800 vs AC86U - Am I Missing Anything?

[Aup808]

Hey everyone,

Been doing a bit of research over the past two days for a new mid-range router, and I am torn between the AC86U and R7800. Based on the research I've done on Reddit and on these forums, both seem like solid routers, with the following differences:

• R7800 seems to have a better 5Ghz range (and stability).
• AC86U has better firmware capabilities (and with Merlin installed, seems to be very powerful).
• AC86U has had issues with the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz band (and a soft reset issue).
• R7800 recently had a Voxel firmware update and there seems to be some bugs working themselves out of the firmware update.
• R7800 is a bit older than the AC86U, so probably has a shorter shelf life?
• AC86U has more support from ASUS, it seems.

I am not really one who would use VPN, which folks who have AC86U claim it works very well. I would love just a strong, solid router that I don't need to customize too much (besides either Merlin or Voxel custom firmware), and while it seems like the R7800 is the winner with that description, I am worried on the latest Voxel update that was released and if I am selling myself short with buying the X4S in 2020 (when I should be going probably with the newer model of router in the AC86U).

Does anyone have other opinions or advice on if they have used both, or if I am missing something in my list that I should really be considering? I do live in a house (three stories, one basement) with the router living on the first story. My current router is ASUS N66U and it worked great (so I do like ASUS routers), but I know not every ASUS router is the same.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Val D.]

AC86U has had issues with the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz band (and a soft reset issue).

Since you did your homework and know the potential issues already, get one from a reputable supplier and keep the warranty card and the purchase receipt in a safe place. If it fails, ASUS will replace it for you. Don't buy used or refurbished units. Keep the old router as a backup. It's always good to have a backup router anyway. Asuswrt-Merlin is more capable firmware and is already familiar to you, so I would go with ASUS in your case. You also have a great support for Asuswrt-Merlin here on SNB.

 

[Aup808]

Since you did your homework and know the potential issues already, get one from a reputable supplier and keep the warranty card and the purchase receipt in a safe place. If it fails, ASUS will replace it for you. Don't buy used or refurbished units. Keep the old router as a backup. It's always good to have a backup router anyway. Asuswrt-Merlin is more capable firmware and is already familiar to you, so I would go with ASUS in your case. You also have a great support for Asuswrt-Merlin here on SNB.

Thanks for the reply! And yeah, I definitely would buy new; don't want to risk with refurbished/used. Out of curiosity, you mentioned ASUS will replace routers if you have the warranty card / receipt - do you know how NETGEAR's customer service is? Are they comparable to ASUS, or have you found ASUS support to be a lot better?

 

[Val D.]

Are they comparable to ASUS, or have you found ASUS support to be a lot better?

I don't know. I personally never used any warranty on a consumer router.

 

[Aup808]

Thanks for your reply! Does anyone else have thoughts?

 

[Trip]

For starters, yes, I'm fully aware it's roughly half again as costly, but have you considered jumping up to the AX88U? Apparently it's hardware is less failure-prone than the 86U, on average at least, and it's Merlin-compatible as well. That said, we all have budgets to stick to, and I'm sure you'd be fine enough with the 86U, presuming you get a good one.

 

[cybrnook]

If OpenWRT is an option for you, the R7800 is one of the best OpenWRT options at the moment. Sky is the limit with firmware options there.

 

[Aup808]

For starters, yes, I'm fully aware it's roughly half again as costly, but have you considered jumping up to the AX88U? Apparently it's hardware is less failure-prone than the 86U, on average at least, and it's Merlin-compatible as well. That said, we all have budgets to stick to, and I'm sure you'd be fine enough with the 86U, presuming you get a good one.

I am happy to invest in the AX88U, but it seems the models on Amazon are slightly used (although in very good condition, probably only used briefly before being returned). Is it really worth the extra $ on the upgrade? Again, if it's a night and day of AX88U between the AC86U/R7800, happy to consider that route, but just have to figure out where to purchase it.

If OpenWRT is an option for you, the R7800 is one of the best OpenWRT options at the moment. Sky is the limit with firmware options there.

I was mainly researching Voxel, but could be open to OpenWRT. Is there a big difference between those two firmwares, or is it preference based on the developers/support?

 

[cybrnook]

I was mainly researching Voxel, but could be open to OpenWRT. Is there a big difference between those two firmwares, or is it preference based on the developers/support?

Voxel is an updated, modified version of the stock firmware. OpenWRT is an opensource firmware with it's own buildsystem. Using that, you can compile you own firmware and add/modify/tweak to your hearts content. However, it would require you to be very much involved with your setup, not really a set it and forget it approach. If that's what you want, then Voxel would be a good option. But, if you are tinkerer, for example, R7800 is already on Kernel 5.4 if that means anything to you, then OWRT may be worth a try. With that said, on OpenWRT you are not using the closed source blob firmware for your radios (like Voxels), you would be using one of two flavors of opensource. If you go with R7800, you can of course try either. The Asus units are (typically) broadcom based, so no real Opensource option. There are pocket cases where you can use the upstream bcm firmware, but it's not as robust as the closed source blob.

OWRT is good if you want to play with your setup, learn how QoS works, learn how to create/manage your own firewall rules (all good stuff to know). Asus/Voxel is good if you want Voxel and Merlin to figure it all out for you , for the most part. I mean that in the most respectful way possible, there are very talented people that use Asus and Netgear firmware.

Here's a good starting point: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/build-for-netgear-r7800/316

And Ansuel working on 5.4 Kernel: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/pr-ipq806x-kernel-5-4-bump-code-propose/53875

 

[Aup808]

Voxel is an updated, modified version of the stock firmware. OpenWRT is an opensource firmware with it's own buildsystem. Using that, you can compile you own firmware and add/modify/tweak to your hearts content. However, it would require you to be very much involved with your setup, not really a set it and forget it approach. If that's what you want, then Voxel would be a good option. But, if you are tinkerer, for example, R7800 is already on Kernel 5.4 if that means anything to you, then OWRT may be worth a try. With that said, on OpenWRT you are not using the closed source blob firmware for your radios (like Voxels), you would be using one of two flavors of opensource. If you go with R7800, you can of course try either. The Asus units are (typically) broadcom based, so no real Opensource option. There are pocket cases where you can use the upstream bcm firmware, but it's not as robust as the closed source blob.

OWRT is good if you want to play with your setup, learn how QoS works, learn how to create/manage your own firewall rules (all good stuff to know). Asus/Voxel is good if you want Voxel and Merlin to figure it all out for you , for the most part. I mean that in the most respectful way possible, there are very talented people that use Asus and Netgear firmware.

Here's a good starting point: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/build-for-netgear-r7800/316

And Ansuel working on 5.4 Kernel: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/pr-ipq806x-kernel-5-4-bump-code-propose/53875

Thanks for this detailed reply. I am leaning toward R7800, since it seems to have good open support with Voxel and OWRT, either way I go (honestly, might just go with Voxel and let it go - while I would love to tinker in the future, I think I'm good for now). You don't foresee a lack of support anytime soon, right? My only other concern is this is a several-year-old router, and don't want to invest when it's on the downswing of its life. Hoping to get at least 2-3-4 years or so (before upgrading to WiFi 6).

 

[cybrnook]

Thanks for this detailed reply. I am leaning toward R7800, since it seems to have good open support with Voxel and OWRT, either way I go (honestly, might just go with Voxel and let it go - while I would love to tinker in the future, I think I'm good for now). You don't foresee a lack of support anytime soon, right? My only other concern is this is a several-year-old router, and don't want to invest when it's on the downswing of its life. Hoping to get at least 2-3-4 years or so (before upgrading to WiFi 6).

Well, the R7800 has already been out for 2-3-4 years Same with the RT-AC86U, at least 3 years. With that said, both companies are still pushing firmware updates, though I have to tip the hat to Asus on the "supporting older routers with current firmware". They really are in a league all their own when it comes to that. I mean that towards consumer based, off the shelf routers.

With that said, the next few years will see WiFi 6 becoming the new standard, especially with 6E that's poking it's head around the corner, already rendering current WiFI 6 routers on their own islands. You are coming into an AC router at beginning of AX. BUT, don't let that deter you, WiFi 5 (AC) is pretty much solid at this point, and most all clients in the world are still AC (Laptops, TV's, Receivers, IoT crap). So either unit you go with, will be pretty good with their inherent caps, 1300Mbps on 5Ghz and about 450 on the 2.4. Even 1300 requires you to at least have a 3 pole antenna to work, and most clients have 2 meaning you will cap at 867.

Both have their pro's and con's, as does life. Do you plan to "Mesh" anything, I know that's a real hot buzzword lately. If so, Asus AiMesh is pretty easy to setup, and you can mix and match routers on stock firmware with that. On Netgear side, they don't have anything like that in stock firmware. However in something like OWRT, you are just looking for something called WDS or Wireless Relay (concept of mesh has been around for a while). https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/wifi/relay_configuration
As you can see, it's much more involved from your side, while the Asus does it all for you. But you aren't learning anything

My last though would be that Thiggins/Merlin and team have a great community here, and you will really only get use of that with the Asus router. However OWRT has a good forum as well, you won't get much support here for that.

Oh, and R7800 has 4 x ant while RT-AC86U has 3 x. So has to be better...... right?

Do you plan on running a VPN? I think both routers will get you in the range of about 150Mbps with OpenVPN.
If you want to live life on the wild side My friends and I use a VPN provider called Mullvad, and they support a new standard called Wireguard. Wireguard is not OpenVPN, and it's not your mom's VPN either OWRT is the only place you will get Wireguard on a router right now, and you can get upwards of 500Mbps I am sure using WG on a OTS router. My friend in Canada hit's his full link bandwidth of 190Mbps on a Linksys router running OWRT, and his CPU usage is about %20. This is an ARM CPU mind you with no native acceleration.

 

[Aup808]

Well, the R7800 has already been our for 2-3-4 years Same with the RT-AC86U, at least 3 years. With that said, both companies are still pushing firmware updates, though I have to tip the hat to Asus on the "supporting older routers with current firmware". They really are in a league all their own when it comes to that. I mean that towards consumer based, off the shelf routers.

With that said, the next few years will see WiFi 6 becoming the new standard, especially with 6E that's poking it's head around the corner, already rendering current WiFI 6 routers on their own islands. You are coming into an AC router at beginning of AX. BUT, don't let that deter you, WiFi 5 (AC) is pretty much solid at this point, and most all clients in the world are still AC (Laptops, TV's, Receivers, IoT crap). So either unit you go with, will be pretty good with their inherent caps, 1300Mbps on 5Ghz and about 450 on the 2.4. Even 1300 requires you to at least have a 3 pole antenna to work, and most clients have 2 meaning you will cap at 867.

Both have their pro's and con's, as does life. Do you plan to "Mesh" anything, I know that's a real hot buzzword lately. If so, Asus AiMesh is pretty easy to setup, and you can mix and match routers on stock firmware with that. On Netgear side, they don't have anything like that in stock firmware. However in something like OWRT, you are just looking for something called WDA or Wireless Relay (concept of mesh has been around for a while). https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/wifi/relay_configuration
As you can see, it's much more involved from your side, while the Asus does it all for you. But you aren't learning anything

My last though would be that Thiggins/Merlin and team have a great community here, and you will really only get use of that with the Asus router. However OWRT has a good forum as well, you won't get much support here for that.

Oh, and R7800 has 4 x ant while RT-AC86U has 3 x. So has to be better...... right?

Do you plan on running a VPN? I think both routers will get you in the range of about 150Mbps with OpenVPN.
If you want to live life on the wild side My friends and I use a VPN provider called Mullvad, and they support a new standard called Wireguard. Wireguard is not OpenVPN, and it's not your mom's VPN either OWRT is the only place you will get Wireguard on a router right now, and you can get upwards of 500Mbps I am sure using WG on a OTS router. My friend in Canada hit's his full link bandwidth of 190Mbps on a Linksys router running OWRT, and his CPU usage is about %20. This is an ARM CPU mind you with no native acceleration.

Ah, yeah - WiFi 6 is something I was reading about, and while one thought of me is saying, "Why would you spend $ on a router if you can get AX/WiFi 6 now?", I don't know if spending the extra money is worth it at the moment. I have a Galaxy S10, so that (I think) has WiFi 6, but other than that... nothing would really benefit from getting WiFi 6 router. And based on things I've read, I rather wait another year (or two) to have more WiFi 6 clients out there and potential other routers to choose from (and maybe they'll be a little cheaper). As of now, I'm leaning that WiFi 6 may not be an investment I want to start right now, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I was very much leaning on R7800, but then your latest comment sparked something - so, for Asus AiMesh, in theory, if I took my old Asus N66U, could that be a router that can turn into a Mesh, and I can install that somewhere? Cause an AS86U + N66U mesh is an interesting combo, and in theory, that could cover more range than R7800. But then I lose the benefits you described by not going on the R7800.

And I don't plan on running a VPN. That's another reason I was leaning R7800. I mean, if I was, ASUS would be a no-brainer, but I just want a router that is stable, runs really well, and once I set something up I can leave it alone. Based on the forum, that sounds more like R7800, but I guess the other side of my brain is telling me that I'm sacrificing customization, flexibility, ad blocker, and some of these other features (i.e. mesh) that I can easily obtain with ASUS with minimal homework.

 

[cybrnook]

Ah, yeah - WiFi 6 is something I was reading about, and while one thought of me is saying, "Why would you spend $ on a router if you can get AX/WiFi 6 now?", I don't know if spending the extra money is worth it at the moment. I have a Galaxy S10, so that (I think) has WiFi 6, but other than that... nothing would really benefit from getting WiFi 6 router. And based on things I've read, I rather wait another year (or two) to have more WiFi 6 clients out there and potential other routers to choose from (and maybe they'll be a little cheaper). As of now, I'm leaning that WiFi 6 may not be an investment I want to start right now, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I was very much leaning on R7800, but then your latest comment sparked something - so, for Asus AiMesh, in theory, if I took my old Asus N66U, could that be a router that can turn into a Mesh, and I can install that somewhere? Cause an AS86U + N66U mesh is an interesting combo, and in theory, that could cover more range than R7800. But then I lose the benefits you described by not going on the R7800.

And I don't plan on running a VPN. That's another reason I was leaning R7800. I mean, if I was, ASUS would be a no-brainer, but I just want a router that is stable, runs really well, and once I set something up I can leave it alone. Based on the forum, that sounds more like R7800, but I guess the other side of my brain is telling me that I'm sacrificing customization, flexibility, ad blocker, and some of these other features (i.e. mesh) that I can easily obtain with ASUS with minimal homework.

Ah, I should qualify **Any supporting AiMesh Asus Router** That means anything newer than the RT-AC68U for the most part. Your N66U is not support (via Asus).

And yes, you are right, I would hold off on WiFI 6 for now. It's already gotten the point where most people who bought WiFI 6 routers today, will not get WiFi 6E tomorrow, since it will require new hardware. So, you would be getting a draft form of WiFI 6 today, it would not be what it will be in a year or so.

I also have a S10 (+), and outside of seeing the pretty "6" symbol next to your WiFi bars, it's not doing much for you on your phone. You could run some iperf tests and smile, but in real world you haven't gotten much. You would want all your client to support WiFi 6, and from the bandwidth you would only smile when you are doing local client to client transfers. Most providers offer up to Gigabit internet speed, so unless you have Gigabit, or higher, you ain't getting anything on the WAN side either. WiFi 6 does support some new traffic managing features, but if you have a wifi network of 20 devices, and only 1 or 2 support WiFI 6 then again haven't gotten much.

If you run VPN, check this out. Super cool app Stangri made in OWRT, and support policy based routing as well as most VPN standards (wireguard included): https://github.com/stangri/openwrt_packages/blob/master/vpn-policy-routing/files/README.md

I am looking for a list of AiMesh supported routers, and I know it's around somewhere. But in the meantime, keep in mind that unless you have a Tri-Band router (neither of these are), you are just splitting bandwidth on an already likely congested band. Only in Tri-Band could you dedicated one 5Ghz radio for "backhaul" and then freely use the other 5Ghz and 2,4 Ghz for clients.

Found it, scroll to the bottom: https://www.asus.com/Microsite/AiMesh/ea/

 

[Val D.]

Oh, and R7800 has 4 x ant while RT-AC86U has 3 x. So has to be better...... right?

I think both routers will get you in the range of about 150Mbps with OpenVPN.

Check your facts before you give advice.

- RT-AC86U has 3x3 2.4GHz radio and 4x4 5GHz radio, the 4-th antenna is internal.
- BCM4906 CPU used in RT-AC86U has hardware AES support and can actually do 250Mbps on OpenVPN.

 

[cybrnook]

Check your facts before you give advice.

- RT-AC86U has 3x3 2.4GHz radio and 4x4 5GHz radio, the 4-th antenna is internal.
- BCM4906 CPU used in RT-AC86U has hardware AES support and can actually do 250Mbps on OpenVPN.

You are right, so point taken and OP should take your addition into the mix when making a decision. So they are more on par than I explained them to be. I am a bit embarrassed as I have them both Should have known.

So I would say the R7800, using OpenVPN would hit about 150, and RT-AC86U could do up to 250*

And for the radios, the same applies to both as well that the majority of clients out there, that come out of the box, wont be able to use the full fat of either, a 3x3 2.4 or a 4x4 5.0 unless you specifically invest in clients that can do that.

 

[Aup808]

Got it, thanks for your help. I think I am going to lean to the R7800 for now, based on what I have heard and these posts. I'll install Voxel's latest for now, but in the future it I want to us OpenWRT, I know that's an option with a lot of different things. Thanks again!

 

[cybrnook]

Enjoy!

 

[jim trudel]

Got it, thanks for your help. I think I am going to lean to the R7800 for now, based on what I have heard and these posts. I'll install Voxel's latest for now, but in the future it I want to us OpenWRT, I know that's an option with a lot of different things. Thanks again!

Don't forget dd wrt, very solid on R7800.


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