New Router Recommendation

[Vager]

Hi Everyone,

Looking for everyones opinion.

I'm currently running an RT-68U (1.4 Dual Core Processor Version) as my main router.
Along with an RT-68U (1 Ghz Dual Core) as a wired connected Mesh device.

Right now I average about 59 total connected devices to my home network. Majority are 2.4 Ghz, with some 5 Ghz wifi.
I'm running 2 POE cameras, and 2 WifI cameras. Lots of wifi smart plus, 6 Google home devices, and at least 9 mobile connected devices.
Also, I'm running a Plex Server on a QNAP NAS , which is my NVR as well. Also a couple of local Java Minecraft servers in which my kids play with their friends (usually about 4 at a time).
I'm using the Per Client DNS filtering and customized DHCP filtering.

I've had this set up for about 2 years now, and it's been working ok., things lately have been laggy lately and I'm not sure if it's because of upstream network congestions or of my router can't handle the loads any more.
My connection is run off a 150Mbps Down / 15Mbps Up cable provider.
I'm currently running Current Version : 384.14_0

Some additional stats
CPU Model ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l) - Rev. c0 (Cores: 2)
CPU Frequency 1400 MHz
CPU Load Average (1, 5, 15 mins) 0.45, 0.39, 0.26 *(I will have to check this when the network is busier)
Memory
Total 249.68 MB
Free 107.01 MB
Buffers 3.47 MB
Cache 18.64 MB
Swap No swap configured
Internal Storage
NVRAM usage 61759 / 65536 bytes
JFFS 16.86 / 62.75 MB

Wifi coverage in my home is good, so coverage really isn't an issue.. I'm just thinking that with the increased amount of home network activity with the kids playing online games, while facetime chatting with their friends, and other streaming Netflix youtube etc.. if you think a main router upgrade would improve things for me.

Just looking for some opinions.

Thanks

 

[cmkelley]

Hi Everyone,

Looking for everyones opinion.

I'm currently running an RT-68U (1.4 Dual Core Processor Version) as my main router.
Along with an RT-68U (1 Ghz Dual Core) as a wired connected Mesh device.

Right now I average about 59 total connected devices to my home network. Majority are 2.4 Ghz, with some 5 Ghz wifi.
I'm running 2 POE cameras, and 2 WifI cameras. Lots of wifi smart plus, 6 Google home devices, and at least 9 mobile connected devices.
Also, I'm running a Plex Server on a QNAP NAS , which is my NVR as well. Also a couple of local Java Minecraft servers in which my kids play with their friends (usually about 4 at a time).
I'm using the Per Client DNS filtering and customized DHCP filtering.

I've had this set up for about 2 years now, and it's been working ok., things lately have been laggy lately and I'm not sure if it's because of upstream network congestions or of my router can't handle the loads any more.
My connection is run off a 150Mbps Down / 15Mbps Up cable provider.
I'm currently running Current Version : 384.14_0

Some additional stats
CPU Model ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l) - Rev. c0 (Cores: 2)
CPU Frequency 1400 MHz
CPU Load Average (1, 5, 15 mins) 0.45, 0.39, 0.26 *(I will have to check this when the network is busier)
Memory
Total 249.68 MB
Free 107.01 MB
Buffers 3.47 MB
Cache 18.64 MB
Swap No swap configured
Internal Storage
NVRAM usage 61759 / 65536 bytes
JFFS 16.86 / 62.75 MB

Wifi coverage in my home is good, so coverage really isn't an issue.. I'm just thinking that with the increased amount of home network activity with the kids playing online games, while facetime chatting with their friends, and other streaming Netflix youtube etc.. if you think a main router upgrade would improve things for me.

Just looking for some opinions.

Thanks

IMHO, it's doubtful a router upgrade would help. I'm seeing increased internet lag at home and we don't even have kids who are home from school. It's just network congestion. It's possible that replacing the main router and using the current main router as a second mesh node may help somewhat by reducing the number of wireless clients attached to any one radio, but with the number of devices you have connecting, I'm not sure you'd see a noticeable improvement.

Just my $.02

 

[bbunge]

If you want to spend the money get an RT-AC86U. Use the AC68U as a mesh node. There is no reason to go to an AX router as, I bet, none of your clients support AX.

 

[Val D.]

I'm currently running an RT-68U (1.4 Dual Core Processor Version) as my main router.
Along with an RT-68U (1 Ghz Dual Core) as a wired connected Mesh device.

My connection is run off a 150Mbps Down / 15Mbps Up cable provider.

Wifi coverage in my home is good, so coverage really isn't an issue.. I'm just thinking that with the increased amount of home network activity

You basically already answered your question. What you may need to upgrade is your ISP line only.

 

[L&LD]

@Vager can you specify which routers you actually have right now? The two RT-68U you spec'd twice isn't a model I easily recognize.

I would recommend upgrading to RMerlin 384.15_0 when you can do so without interrupting the rest of the family. You may also want to redistribute your wireless devices so that the fastest/most used are on 5GHz and the slow/less important ones are on the slower 2.4GHz band (but try to keep each band at a maximum of about 30 or 32 client devices).

You may also want to wait for RMerlin 384.16 final release (maybe coming in the next couple of weeks) or, just jump to the very stable 384.16 Beta 3 right now.

But with a seemingly full house and lots of users depending on this network, it may be wisest to just wait while the network is doing what you need for now.

 

[Vager]

@Vager can you specify which routers you actually have right now? The two RT-68U you spec'd twice isn't a model I easily recognize.

I would recommend upgrading to RMerlin 384.15_0 when you can do so without interrupting the rest of the family. You may also want to redistribute your wireless devices so that the fastest/most used are on 5GHz and the slow/less important ones are on the slower 2.4GHz band (but try to keep each band at a maximum of about 30 or 32 client devices).

You may also want to wait for RMerlin 384.16 final release (maybe coming in the next couple of weeks) or, just jump to the very stable 384.16 Beta 3 right now.

But with a seemingly full house and lots of users depending on this network, it may be wisest to just wait while the network is doing what you need for now.

Thanks for the feedback.. I will look doing the upgrade on the software. As for the models I have, what I mean is the Main router is the RT-AC68U running merlin, and the other same model is running AI Mesh.

 

[Vager]

If you want to spend the money get an RT-AC86U. Use the AC68U as a mesh node. There is no reason to go to an AX router as, I bet, none of your clients support AX.

Is having a the Quad Core 1.8Ghz CPU worth it on the AX88U vs the Dual Core 1.8Ghz on the AC86U.

I was thinking of adding a 2nd node for another Mesh device in my home, and right now I can get the AC86U on sale for $199 CDN

 

[Val D.]

and right now I can get the AC86U on sale for $199 CDN

RT-AC86U is much newer and better router, but not as reliable as your existing RT-AC68U routers. Make sure you keep the purchase receipt. Quite a few members here on SNB had to test ASUS warranty product replacement procedure, some of them few times. If you purchase one of those, use it a main router with RT-AC68U routers as nodes.

 

[Klueless]

I've had this set up for about 2 years now, and it's been working ok., things lately have been laggy lately and I'm not sure if it's because of upstream network congestions or of my router can't handle the loads any more ... My connection is run off a 150Mbps Down / 15Mbps Up cable provider.

I like that you are trying to understand the problem before you just throw money at it.

Are any of your wired devices showing "lagginess" or is it just your wireless devices?

Take a look at your builtin Asus traffic monitors. Does the "Internet view" suggest that 150 x 15 ain't enough? What's it look like when things are "lagging"? Same with your 2.4 & 5 GHz views; anything grab your attention?

What's laggy? Sometimes games appear laggy while everyone else on your network is fine. Co-players and the remote "gaming network" itself contribute greatly to the user experience.

Have you tried QoS? (In your case you might fix bandwidth at 130 x 13 and prioritize gaming, browsing, streaming and then ... everything else?)

I'm using the Per Client DNS filtering and customized DHCP filtering

Ok, I'm a dummy. What is that?​

As you think it could be "upstream" you might consider trying something like "Ping Plotter"? It's a combo ping/tracert package that shows latency and packet loss (and even where it's coming from). It runs for hours at a time and presents as a graphic summary so you can zoom in on problem areas and times. It can even help separate local problems from ISP problems.

Run it over a wire one day, over 5 GHz for a day, over the other 5 GHz service for a day, 2.4 and so on. You may start to notice something?​

 

[Smokey613]

RT-AC86U is much newer and better router, but not as reliable as your existing RT-AC68U routers. Make sure you keep the purchase receipt. Quite a few members here on SNB had to test ASUS warranty product replacement procedure, some of them few times. If you purchase one of those, use it a main router with RT-AC68U routers as nodes.

I guess I lucked out. I replaced my RT-AC68U with a new RT-AC86U from Amazon a few months back and other than it failing to reboot one time during the initial setup, it has never failed to reboot from gui since. I think I may have a “keeper”.

 

[Val D.]

I replaced my RT-AC68U with a new RT-AC86U...

Actually, RT-AC68U is probably much worse model for ASUS' business... it works much longer than expected.

 

[Vager]

I like that you are trying to understand the problem before you just throw money at it.

Are any of your wired devices showing "lagginess" or is it just your wireless devices?

Not really, just some of my family members complaining to me that they say the Wifi isn't working (Which means that they can't load whatever application they are using).

Take a look at your builtin Asus traffic monitors. Does the "Internet view" suggest that 150 x 15 ain't enough? What's it look like when things are "lagging"? Same with your 2.4 & 5 GHz views; anything grab your attention?

What's laggy? Sometimes games appear laggy while everyone else on your network is fine. Co-players and the remote "gaming network" itself contribute greatly to the user experience.

Have you tried QoS? (In your case you might fix bandwidth at 130 x 13 and prioritize gaming, browsing, streaming and then ... everything else?)

I'm going to have to pay closer attention to the numbers, to see if anything stands out.
The part that's laggy that appears when I'm at home is that at times, when my kids are playing with friends, they usually facetime video chat, in groups of 3 or 4.
The connections will drop or freeze.
In other cases, when I'm working from home, my VPN will drop and will have to connect. I'm begging to think that the root of issues has mostly been the drastic change in the internet behaviour because of what's happening. More and more people are using Video chat, which is a really latency and bandwitdh intensive.

As for QoS, I'm using it customized right now to give priority to my VOIP phone line that I use for my home phone. Everything else is default. I can look to see if there's other setting I can play with.

What's lead me to this post, has been me wondering if my existing setup had the horsepower to handle the shift in usage as well. My biggest concern has been that over the years with this setup, I've lost all communication with the Router GUI page about maybe 3 times, in which the only way to recover was to do a power reboot. Before the reboot however, all internet traffic is still working, I just can't log in to the device.
This may be software related to the version I'm running. I'm going to look at upgrading the OS very soon, to see if this happens again.
Looking through the ASUS page, I noticed that I'm a few updates behind, and I also found this in one of the notes:
"- Fixed UI bugs."

Vager said: ↑
I'm using the Per Client DNS filtering and customized DHCP filtering

Ok, I'm a dummy. What is that?​

Best way to explain it is here. https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/access-management/what-is-dns-filtering/

I'm running my own DNS server on my home network as well on a Rasberry Pi (Home Assistant) and I'm using Ad-Guard (I never mentioned this before, but I don't believe this is a problem). This allows me to customize specific DNS filtering for my kids and their devices. Gives me the ability to turn things off a the click of a button like YouTube when they misbehave. Also blocks un-wanted pages and does Global ad-blocking. If you aren't doing DNS filtering, I suggest you take a look in to it.

you might consider trying something like "Ping Plotter"

Thanks I will have to take a look at this as well.

​

 

[Val D.]

I'm running my own DNS server on my home network as well on a Rasberry Pi (Home Assistant) and I'm using Ad-Guard (I never mentioned this before, but I don't believe this is a problem). This allows me to customize specific DNS filtering for my kids and their devices.

You can do it directly on the router, Asuswrt-Merlin already has DNSFilter available. You can force all clients to use specific DNS and specific clients to use another DNS. Your router acts as your own DNS server for connected devices anyway, no extra device is needed. If you run you own DNS resolver on this extra device though, than it's a different story.

 

[Vager]

You can do it directly on the router, Asuswrt-Merlin already has DNSFilter available. You can force all clients to use specific DNS and specific clients to use another DNS. Your router acts as your own DNS server for connected devices anyway, no extra device is needed. If you run you own DNS resolver on this extra device though, than it's a different story.

Yeah, I'm running my own DNS resolver on the Ad-Guard Home I'm running. I'm using the Router to force specific clients to point to that device, and others not to. I have way more control on my Ad-Guard home DNS, vs lets say using something like OpenDNS filtering. Namely, I wanted to be able to see which clients are connecting to un-wanted pages through the logs on Ad-Guard.

Actually my main reason for going with ASUS merlin in the first place a few years ago was for having the ability to force DNS filtering. I must say that it's been awesome so far, and the work that he does is great.

 

[Val D.]

Yeah, I'm running my own DNS resolver on the Ad-Guard Home I'm running.

OK, looks like AdGuard's version of Pi-Hole software running on a dedicated hardware.

 

[Klueless]

As for QoS, I'm using it customized right now to give priority to my VOIP phone line that I use for my home phone

I find it intriguing that "dropped calls" wasn't on your list of problems?

my kids are playing with friends, they usually facetime video chat, in groups of 3 or 4 ... connections will drop or freeze ... my VPN will drop and will have to connect ... I'm begging to think that the root of issues has mostly been the drastic change in the internet behaviour because of what's happening ... more and more people are using ...

You may well be onto something. If you can find the actual IP address of some of these services you could check them out with ping, tracert and/or ping plotter.

But all those apps are running over WiFi? I'm left wondering if they'd still exhibit problems if they ran over a LAN port?

My biggest concern has been that over the years with this setup, I've lost all communication with the Router GUI page about maybe 3 times, in which the only way to recover was to do a power reboot. Before the reboot however, all internet traffic is still working, I just can't log in to the device.

That's your "biggest concern" : -) I'm left thinking that I want you to set up all my networks!

I only have a few sites and that happens on one of them every couple of months. I usually notice it when I go to check out a problem. Other times I think it's a predictor of problems to come.

I've seen that problem brought up in other threads throughout this site. For some it's happened so frequently that they've written scripts to schedule automatic reboots before it happens.

I'm looking forward to learning more from you.

 

[Trip]

family members complaining [...] wifi isn't working [...] when my kids are playing with friends, they usually facetime video chat, in groups of 3 or 4. The connections will drop or freeze. In other cases, when I'm working from home, my VPN will drop and will have to connect. I'm begging to think that the root of issues has mostly been the drastic change in the internet behaviour because of what's happening. More and more people are using Video chat, which is a really latency and bandwitdh intensive.

Could be latency and/or packet loss on the ISP's infrastructure, but highly likely it could also (or instead) be bufferbloat on your gateway's WAN interface. You can self-evaluate your gear by going to DSLReports Speedtest and running a test (select "Cable"). Anything less than a B+/A- for a bufferbloat score and you probably could stand to implement some form of SQM. Even though Merlin offers fq_codel, you may be best running SQM on non-Broadcom hardware (ie. not Asus), as there's a high chance it will be apply to apply that shaping/queuing more effectively, due to much more accessible kernel driver integration vs. Broadcom's proprietary binary blobs.

 

[Vager]

Could be latency and/or packet loss on the ISP's infrastructure, but highly likely it could also (or instead) be bufferbloat on your gateway's WAN interface. You can self-evaluate your gear by going to DSLReports Speedtest and running a test (select "Cable"). Anything less than a B+/A- for a bufferbloat score and you probably could stand to implement some form of SQM. Even though Merlin offers fq_codel, you may be best running SQM on non-Broadcom hardware (ie. not Asus), as there's a high chance it will be apply to apply that shaping/queuing more effectively, due to much more accessible kernel driver integration vs. Broadcom's proprietary binary blobs.

Thanks for this link.. a good read for sure.. I did the test here are my results.
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/61689916

Seems pretty good right now.. Also, I've been noticing lately that although I'm paying for 150Mbs/15Mbs I've been getting better than those numbers.

Working from home yesterday, my ISP cable modem did reset a few times, so it's looking like more and more to be an ISP problem..

 

[Trip]

Thanks for the report. Yeah, not a lot of bloat, so that's good on the part of your router setup at least.

If you've narrowed down on your modem, any chance that Rogers would allow you to roll your own? (Arris SB, Motorola MB or Netgear CM models with Broadcom chips are usually the best choice for North American cable providers). Or do they force you to use their modems/gateways?

 

[Vager]

Thanks for the report. Yeah, not a lot of bloat, so that's good on the part of your router setup at least.

If you've narrowed down on your modem, any chance that Rogers would allow you to roll your own? (Arris SB, Motorola MB or Netgear CM models with Broadcom chips are usually the best choice for North American cable providers). Or do they force you to use their modems/gateways?

I have the Hitron Modem from Rogers, and I have to use the one they provide me. These are the specs.
http://gditechnology.com/manuals/Hitron-CGN3-Data-Sheet-Specs.pdf

I did a google search, and I came across this page.. https://www.approvedmodems.com/do-not-buy-list.html It would appear that my modem is on this list.
I will have to inquire to see if they have other modem options for me to try.. If they do, it may be difficult to try and get a tech out here, unless they are willing to ship one to me. We will have to see.

Thanks to everyone for giving me lots of options to try.