Observations on switching from RT-AC86U to GT-AX6000

[L&LD]

GT-AX6000 is better than the crippled 'pro'.

 

[Clark Griswald]

@maxbraketorque
I've been happy with my Main/AP setup, and I was curious how your setup has been?
Have you "upgraded" to RMerlin fw, or have you found benefits in the current official/beta fws?

 

[maxbraketorque]

@maxbraketorque
I've been happy with my Main/AP setup, and I was curious how your setup has been?
Have you "upgraded" to RMerlin fw, or have you found benefits in the current official/beta fws?

I've been on the 4856 beta pretty much since I installed the units, so about 1.5 months now. My original reason for running the beta was to try out the built-in VLAN capability for setting up an isolated guest network across both routers. Its been 100% reliable, but I feel now that Merlin 388 might be the better choice due to more options and configurability. Here are the reasons:

• With some help from others, I can now enable a guest network VLAN across a main/AP setup in 386.10/11 and 388.x, so the value of the 9.0.0.6.102.xxxx built-in VLAN is marginalized for my needs. However, if anyone needs a VLAN for reasons besides an isolated wireless guest network, then the beta may have more value.
• I really like the Merlin NTP server feature. I miss this more than I realized I would.
• 4856 is inexplicably still using OVPN 2.4.x. I cannot understand why ASUS isn't at least running 2.5.x.
• I like the ability to set custom firewall configs in Merlin using the firewall script.
• The client list is still broken in 4856.
• If anyone has drives connected to their router, 388.x is valuable to have because of the automatic disk check feature that is available through AMTM.

So I'll be switching back over to 388.x after I've got a few other chores off my list.

 

[cmkelley]

I use the ASUS main/AP mode for my two router home network. This setup requires wired backhaul. It lacks some features of Aimesh, but its 100% reliable, and I have full control over the radio settings on the AP. I replaced both the main and the AP RT-AC86Us with GT-AX6000s. My home network already incorporates a multigig switch for the wired network, so moving from the RT-AC86U to the GT-AX6000 allowed me to bring the wireless part of the network up to 2.5 gbps. I'm running the current latest beta firmware - 9.0.0.6.102.4856. A few thoughts on the move to the GT-AX6000 main/AP combo:

• The GT-AX6000 is definitely larger than the RT-AC86U, but its not really that much more of an eyesore than the RT-AC86U because the body of the GT-AX6000 sits horizontal rather than vertical. If a set of more normal looking antennas were used, it would look less obtrusive than the RT-AC86U.
• N and AC wireless range and speed at long range are about the same as my RT-AC86U. No surprise here as the RT-AC86U is known to have excellent wireless range, and I guess the good news is that the GT-AX6000 range is as good rather than worse.
• Maximum wireless speeds are now of course higher due to 2.5 gbps networking and AX mode, but not a lot higher. Close range, large file transfer speeds between my wired server and my wireless 3x3 AC laptop went from 80 MB/sec with the RT-AC86U to 90 MB/sec with the GT-AX6000. I wouldn't expect my AX laptop to be any faster because its only 2x2 (which now seems to be the standard for built-in AX wifi, even on Macs). I have yet to try a folder of small files which may be more relevant because backup software (which everyone should be using) is often chatty and uses lots of small transfers.
• I've not yet experimented to see if my AX devices have better range in AX mode than in AC mode. I may try that at some point.
• Not surprisingly, the router GUI runs noticeably faster on the GT-AX6000 despite the RT-AC86U GUI being no slouch.
• The ROG web GUI design is annoying.
• I'm just beginning to explore the beta firmware features. Not much to say here yet except that the Network Map is still broken (stops updating after a while) with the new beta firmware. I guess ASUS is never going to fix this.
• Based on my experience thus far, I would say there is no clear benefit to the upgrade except to have access to the next generation ASUS firmware which hopefully will be significantly better.
• If someone wants to get one of the ASUS Pro-level routers, I see no reason not to choose the GT-AX6000 for dual band needs because it has all the features and capability of the RT-AX88U Pro and RT-AX86U Pro but runs significantly less expensive at this time.

Well, "significantly less expensive at this time" depends on where in the world you are. In the U.S., the GT-AX6000 is the most expensive of the three (on Amazon, but there's rarely much difference between online stores). AX86U Pro is $250, AX88U Pro is $270, and the GT-AX6000 is $330. Previously, someone said the situation is the reverse in Norway, and I'm guessing without evidence that's probably true in most of Europe. I would expect (again without evidence) Canadian pricing to be similarly structured to the U.S.

 

[ColDen]

Well, "significantly less expensive at this time" depends on where in the world you are. In the U.S., the GT-AX6000 is the most expensive of the three (on Amazon, but there's rarely much difference between online stores). AX86U Pro is $250, AX88U Pro is $270, and the GT-AX6000 is $330. Previously, someone said the situation is the reverse in Norway, and I'm guessing without evidence that's probably true in most of Europe. I would expect (again without evidence) Canadian pricing to be similarly structured to the U.S.

In Canada the GT-AX6000 is currently the least expensive of the three (on Staples) and almost in par with your US price. The AX86U Pro is $390 Cdn, AX88U Pro is $400 Cdn, and the GT-AX6000 is $350 Cdn. Therefore ASUS have clearly different pricing policies in different countries.

 

[cmkelley]

In Canada the GT-AX6000 is currently the least expensive of the three (on Staples) and almost in par with your US price. The AX86U Pro is $390 Cdn, AX88U Pro is $400 Cdn, and the GT-AX6000 is $350 Cdn. Therefore ASUS have clearly different pricing policies in different contries.

Whiskey. Tango. Fox. That's ~$65UD cheaper in Canada than the U.S. for the AX6000, while the AX86U Pro is ~$45UD more expensive in Canada than the U.S.

Maybe they perceive U.S. gamers as more willing to shell out for a "gaming" router. Clearly "best value" depends on where you live.

 

[ColDen]

Whiskey. Tango. Fox. That's ~$65UD cheaper in Canada than the U.S. for the AX6000, while the AX86U Pro is ~$45UD more expensive in Canada than the U.S.

Maybe they perceive U.S. gamers as more willing to shell out for a "gaming" router. Clearly "best value" depends on where you live.

ASUS' marketing works in mysterious ways!!!

 

[L&LD]

Yes, marketing is mysterious.

That doesn't stop me from seeing the true value of certain models. Even when more expensive, the GT-AX6000 is still the superior router today. Well worth a few extra dollars when you'll be using it for the next few years (a coffee or two a year difference, at the most).

 

[cmkelley]

Yes, marketing is mysterious.

That doesn't stop me from seeing the true value of certain models. Even when more expensive, the GT-AX6000 is still the superior router today. Well worth a few extra dollars when you'll be using it for the next few years (a coffee or two a year difference, at the most).

That depends ENTIRELY on your use case.

Dunno about you, but to me, $80 isn't a "few" extra dollars for a 2.5Gbit WAN port that I don't have any use for. As far as I can tell, that's the only real difference between the two routers. Same CPU, same flash, same ram, same USB ports. The 1Gbit WAN port on my AX86U Pro is more than sufficient for the ~350Mbit I have. And I could trade the 2.5Gbit LAN port into a 2.5Gbit WAN port if I wanted. I don't even have a 2.5GBit card in my file server yet.

Oddly enough, even living in Orange County, CA, gigabit internet availability is spotty at best, and nobody seems in a hurry to expand their networks. I check every year or so and the answer is the always the same, not in my neighborhood. So I'm just not worried about not having a fast enough WAN port. It's me and my wife, and neither of us game. What's the advantage of the AX6000 for me? None that I can see.

 

[Piotrek]

Today in Poland:
RT-AX86S - 175 USD
RT-AX86U Pro - 264 USD
RT-AX88U Pro - 285 USD
GT-AX6000 - 283 USD
Approximate price after converting from local currency.

 

[Tech9]

What's the advantage of the AX6000 for me?

You can scare your children with it. "See the face-hugger there? Behave!"...

You can use it as night light. It has Wi-Fi range enhancing RGB technology built-in.

In reality - Raspberry Pi with 2.5GbE ports. Not serious 2.5GbE capable hardware anyway. NAT acceleration hacks based device, up to whatever it can do. You set Bandwidth Limiter on a Guest Network and it's dead. The CPU is good for about 400Mbps WAN-LAN only. RGB light works always though.

 

[L&LD]

No, use case has nothing to do with it. Better hardware is objectively better. Even when the difference was $100 or more, the GT-AX6000 was still the better model. And your budget doesn't change the worth of the router either.

Nobody knows what the future may bring, but one thing is for sure, the model with the better hardware will still be worth more to a future owner (whether sold or given to them).

And why am I discounting your argument @cmkelley? Because your use case doesn't apply to the points made above.

If normal users replaced this equipment on an annual basis, I might agree with your logic. But the truth is that most keep working router until they need to upgrade again. And for most, that is years from now.

In that time frame, ISP speeds change, client devices change, and most importantly, our expectations of our equipment changes too. In that sense, spending $80 more today is trivial.

 

[Piotrek]

Better hardware is objectively better.

What hardware GT-AX6000 is better than hardware RT-AX88U Pro and RT-AX86U Pro?

In that time frame, ISP speeds change, client devices change, and most importantly, our expectations of our equipment changes too.

My ISP download speed has been ~300 Mbps for about 5 years now and I don't need or plan to increase it in the next few years.

 

[Tech9]

What hardware GT-AX6000 is better

Think about ROG GT-AX11000 Pro EVA Edition. The only ROG and Pro with RGB and Mirror top!

Two in AiMesh and wall mounted with RGB enabled! This is what I see as better hardware. One day...

 

[cmkelley]

No, use case has nothing to do with it. Better hardware is objectively better. Even when the difference was $100 or more, the GT-AX6000 was still the better model. And your budget doesn't change the worth of the router either.

Nobody knows what the future may bring, but one thing is for sure, the model with the better hardware will still be worth more to a future owner (whether sold or given to them).

And why am I discounting your argument @cmkelley? Because your use case doesn't apply to the points made above.

If normal users replaced this equipment on an annual basis, I might agree with your logic. But the truth is that most keep working router until they need to upgrade again. And for most, that is years from now.

In that time frame, ISP speeds change, client devices change, and most importantly, our expectations of our equipment changes too. In that sense, spending $80 more today is trivial.

Sorry, with the lone exception of the 2.5Gbit WAN port, AFAIK, the hardware between the AC86U Pro and the AX6000 is identical (the AX86U Pro has the 4th antenna inside instead of outside, but there's still 4 antennas). I mean, you could be ridiculous and say even if the difference is $10,000 the AX6000 is the "better" model for having the extra 2.5Gbit WAN port, but I hardly think you would argue that port is "worth" $10,000. So yes, use case is relevant because "worth" is relative. The extra port is worthless to me, it has zero worth. In fact, the aesthetics of the AX86U Pro are "worth" probably $30 to me. I'd probably pay $30 more for an AX86U Pro over an AX6000 because to me, the AX6000 is fugly. If we had any cats I'd probably pay $50 more just to avoid having a warm flat place that would undoubtedly attract cats to sit on it.

You're conflating extra features (a 2.5Gbit WAN port) with "worth", and the two aren't the same thing at all. A top of the line, tricked out Subaru WRX STi undoubtedly has better hardware than a stock Honda Civic and will have a much higher resale value, but that doesn't at all mean everyone should go out and buy a WRX STi. And if "better" is your only yardstick, why not recommend the AXE16000? Clearly that's "better" hardware, with dual 10Gig ports in addition to a 2.5Gbit WAN port. I mean, what's $600 (US, Amazon) over the life of a router?

If you just want to talk "better" hardware, then don't recommend consumer routers at all.

 

[L&LD]

What hardware GT-AX6000 is better than hardware RT-AX88U Pro and RT-AX86U Pro?

My ISP download speed has been ~300 Mbps for about 5 years now and I don't need or plan to increase it in the next few years.

The RT-AX88U Pro may be better (still to be proven). The RT-AX86U Pro isn't even in the running today.

Yes, now. The only constant is change.

 

[L&LD]

Sorry, with the lone exception of the 2.5Gbit WAN port, AFAIK, the hardware between the AC86U Pro and the AX6000 is identical (the AX86U Pro has the 4th antenna inside instead of outside, but there's still 4 antennas). I mean, you could be ridiculous and say even if the difference is $10,000 the AX6000 is the "better" model for having the extra 2.5Gbit WAN port, but I hardly think you would argue that port is "worth" $10,000. So yes, use case is relevant because "worth" is relative. The extra port is worthless to me, it has zero worth. In fact, the aesthetics of the AX86U Pro are "worth" probably $30 to me. I'd probably pay $30 more for an AX86U Pro over an AX6000 because to me, the AX6000 is fugly. If we had any cats I'd probably pay $50 more just to avoid having a warm flat place that would undoubtedly attract cats to sit on it.

You're conflating extra features (a 2.5Gbit WAN port) with "worth", and the two aren't the same thing at all. A top of the line, tricked out Subaru WRX STi undoubtedly has better hardware than a stock Honda Civic and will have a much higher resale value, but that doesn't at all mean everyone should go out and buy a WRX STi. And if "better" is your only yardstick, why not recommend the AXE16000? Clearly that's "better" hardware, with dual 10Gig ports in addition to a 2.5Gbit WAN port. I mean, what's $600 (US, Amazon) over the life of a router?

If you just want to talk "better" hardware, then don't recommend consumer routers at all.

I'm sure you meant the RT-AX86U Pro (not AC). And the hardware may be identical otherwise. Doesn't make the 'pro' balanced though. This is a router, after all.

The ace up its sleeve is that the GT-AX6000 has proven itself over the last year. No such data for the 'pro', even with its disadvantages.

Of course, at $10K extra the worth would shift. Don't bring strawman arguments to the table.

No, I'm not conflating anything. On the contrary, you are. Using your example, the stock Honda Civic would be worth more if the WRX only came with 3 wheels. But let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees here.

If you paid attention, I usually suggest/recommend models I've used. I don't recommend models on specs.

As for aesthetics? I don't and have never bought into that. I pay for the best product at the lowest price with the most hardware at a certain time. The looks will be what they are. They never contribute to performance in any case.

Again, my definition of better hardware has been explained many times on the forum. The hardware, or the firmware/software, on their own, isn't the final criteria, ever. To save you from searching; a proven model such as the GT-AX6000, at a fair or excellent price (e.g. when on sale), with exceptional performance, and with the hardware to take advantage of that performance, along with RMerlin support, and also being something I have used personally (and therefore have recommended professionally to many) is what is deemed recommendable by me.

PS. Your car example doesn't work here. They both get you from point A to B equally well (within legal limits). And they both have all the necessary parts to do so right from the dealer.

The GT-AXE16000 is still in its teething phase for some today. And 10GbE ports are hardly 'consumer' grade for the masses. Besides, Gen 2 AXE class routers will easily surpass it soon, I'm sure (both in performance and in stability/reliability).

If they come out before Gen 2 of WiFi 7, that is.

 

[Tech9]

stock Honda Civic

It’s the same Honda Civic with more stickers on it and dual exhaust.

 

[sfx2000]

Much like the Synology RT6600ax - the Honda Accord of Routers...

It's not great at any one thing, but it's very good at everything

 

[maxbraketorque]

The 2.5 gbe WAN and LAN ports are well worth it if your site utilizes wired ethernet and your computing can benefit from higher network speeds. Otherwise, get the router that most suits your wallet or appearance tastes.