Primary w/ two(2) secondary routers

[Zerpersande]

I currently have a RT-AC3200 as my primary and a RT-AC85U as a secondary. The primary is used with a cable connection for my wife’s Zoom conferences. She’s complained of connection quality/problems recently. The only problem I found was discussed in a recent post andbit has nothing to do with her connection but with the AC85U.

But while delving into the AC85U situation I came across the idea of having a main router with two separate routers creating two separate networks. From the specs of the TP-Link AX3000 on Amazon it’s a faster router and could be used as the ‘Main’ router with the AC3200 and AC85U routers setup as completely separate networks.

i don’t know if this has any speed/connectivity advantages but anything that works to ‘isolate’ my wife’s connection is good. Plus, I’d like to do it just for sh**s and giggles, to do it because it can be done. IF it doesn’t cause problems.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

​

 

[drinkingbird]

I'd want to confirm that there is something being maxed out on the router (CPU, throughput, etc) before spending money on a replacement. TP Link makes decent routers but in my opinion not as good as the Asus and it could end up being a downgrade. The router could be dying but you'd probably be seeing more symptoms than just one person having issues.

I'd say to start, upgrade the AC3200 to the latest firmware (if not already) and do a factory reset and reconfigure from scratch (not a backup). That can solve some "unexplained" issues and is a good idea to do from time to time. If that doesn't help, it is more likely an issue with your ISP, her PC, or wireless signal quality, as that is a plenty powerful enough router (unless you're also doing lots of other stuff at the same time, in which case you should look into using QOS on the router).

Daisy chaining her off two routers if anything would cause more issues not less in most cases. The exception is if you have a lot of IOT or other devices that are very "chatty" between themselves, putting THEM on an isolated network could help, but I'd leave your main stuff on the main router.

Using Guest Wireless 1 on the latest firmware is a good way to put your IOT devices or stuff you want isolated onto its own segment and reduce its impact on the main network. GW1 gets its own subnet and can either be partially or totally (access intranet disabled) isolated that way.

Since you already have two routers you could try daisy chaining them and using one for the isolated IOT network but don't think that would buy you much over using one router as your main and one as just an AP to extend your coverage. I'd do some research into which is the more powerful/reliable router (not sure off the top of my head) and just use that as your router, with the other as an AP if you need extra coverage, or as a secondary router for your IOT/lower priority stuff if you decide you want to try that. If you use the 85 as your main router I would also upgrade that to the latest firmware, factory reset, and reconfigure it from scratch.

You could actually use the 85 as a test to see if it helps her issue, get it all reset and reconfigured, then swap it in place of the 3200, see if anything changes. If she still has problems then you need to start narrowing it down, maybe unplug any smart home stuff you have, watch the bandwidth usage while she's on a call, etc. You can try hardwiring her to the router to see if that helps, if so you know there is a wireless signal issue. It could be as simple as some process running on her PC that is interfering, or a wireless driver was just auto-updated and is causing problems, etc.

There are test sites where you can look at the quality of your internet connection for latency, jitter, packet loss, etc all of which affect voice/video quality.

Heck, assuming she has a decent firewall on her PC (windows firewall is fine as long as it hasn't been messed with) you could plug her directly into your ISP device (modem or whatever), reboot it, and see if her problem is still there. If it is, then you've just narrowed it down to either her PC or your internet connection.

Don't see anything that having a 3rd would get you, unless you need more coverage. The "main" router in that setup would be severely underused and a waste of money.

For reference, I have an RT-AC1900 (similar to the RT-AC68U), quite old, and my 350/350 internet connection can be maxed out no problem and I do Zoom and Teams calls all day (over wireless). I don't have a ton of devices on my network though, and nothing IOT other than a Fire TV stick.

Long story short, in networking, KISS principle usually is correct, adding more complexity probably isn't going to be the solution.

 

[Tech9]

Plus, I’d like to do it just for sh**s and giggles, to do it because it can be done. IF it doesn’t cause problems.

As per previous thread, your RT-AC85U router is currently in AP Mode connected to RT-AC3200. If you switch RT-AC85U to Router Mode and restrict access to RT-AC3200 network, this router and its network will be completely separate. You'll have no access to attached to it devices and your wife will have no access to attached to RT-AC3200 devices. Yes, it can be done. As a result you can't share files or printers anymore. If you are looking for problems with your wife though - there are better ways.

 

[Zerpersande]

I don't have a ton of devices on my network though, and nothing IOT other than a Fire TV stick.

Same here

Long story short, in networking, KISS principle usually is correct, adding more complexity probably isn't going to be the solution.

This is generally true. Also, if it ain’t broken, don’t a) mess with or b) buy a new one. Unfortunately I’m retired and looking for something to do. My wife is currently in Germany (work and visiting our daughter currently living there). She is used to coming home and my telling her…. In my defense, I was left unsupervised. Doesn’t mean she LIKES it, just that she IS used to it.

I checked Amazon and the Asus RT-AX3000 V2 was 16,600¥ with a 1600¥ coupon. Add in that I have a US-based credit card and there’s an artificially high exchange rate right now and I bought the router for $110. So now I have something to do.
My current plan is to replace the AC3200 with the RT-AX3000 V2 and move the AC3200 downstairs. The AC85U can be installed in my daughters apartment as repeater(I hope??)

Thanks for the info. It was presented a bit above my level but still where I got what you were saying.

 

[Tech9]

RT-AX3000 V2

This router is limited to Asuswrt firmware only. No Asuswrt-Merlin support where more interesting things to do are.

 

[Zerpersande]

If you switch RT-AC85U to Router Mode and restrict access to RT-AC3200 network, this router and its network will be completely separate.

This will work by switching the AC3200 to Router Mode and restricting access to the new RT-AX3000 network. My computer will be wired into the RT-AX3000 but I’ll just switch to the WiFi on the AC3200 if I have to use my computer during her Zoom meetings.

 

[Tech9]

My computer will be wired into the RT-AX3000 but I’ll just switch to the WiFi on the AC3200 if I have to use my computer during her Zoom meetings.

What's the idea behind this setup?

 

[Zerpersande]

This router is limited to Asuswrt firmware only. No Asuswrt-Merlin support where more interesting things to do are.

But my guess is that those ‘more interesting things to do’ are currently beyond my Experience Level. For now, as long as I'm getting a potentially faster router that will duplicate my current system, I’m good to go.

 

[Zerpersande]

What's the idea behind this setup?

Allowing my wife’s Zoom conferences to be on a separate network with only her wired connection on there.

And of course have something to do.

 

[Tech9]

Allowing my wife’s Zoom conferences to be on a separate network with only her wired connection on there.

You still share the same Internet connection. There will be no difference in Zoom connection quality.

For now, as long as I'm getting a potentially faster router

It's a newer model, but entry-level and not much faster than your RT-AC3200. You may not notice any difference.

 

[drinkingbird]

This will work by switching the AC3200 to Router Mode and restricting access to the new RT-AX3000 network. My computer will be wired into the RT-AX3000 but I’ll just switch to the WiFi on the AC3200 if I have to use my computer during her Zoom meetings.

Is your wife on wifi? If so leaving yourself hardwired may actually be better. The more routers/APs/devices you have using the spectrum, the more utilization and interference there is. Unless you're planning on doing huge file transfers etc, you should be fine sharing the same router amongst you (wired, wifi, mix of both). Even if you do want to do a lot of file transfer or heavy activity, you could look into prioritizing her computer in QOS. I do tons of work while on Zoom/Teams meetings and no issues at all.

What is the speed of your internet connection (down and up)?

You can reuse one of the routers for your daughter - they should all support repeater mode (note that you will get 1/2 the normal wifi throughput best case via the repeater). Not sure how close the apartment is but hardwiring the backhaul would be better if an option.

 

[drinkingbird]

This will work by switching the AC3200 to Router Mode and restricting access to the new RT-AX3000 network. My computer will be wired into the RT-AX3000 but I’ll just switch to the WiFi on the AC3200 if I have to use my computer during her Zoom meetings.

I'd say just leave the AC3200 in AP mode (or use AiMesh) and leave it strictly for downstairs coverage (if in fact you even need that, you may be fine with just the one router. Less is more when it comes to wifi (unless you really need better signal).

Let the AX be your router, DHCP server, DNS server, etc. Simpler setup, no double NAT, everything is managed in one place for the most part.

Of course after all this, she may still be having issues. That's when you need to start looking at her computer and your internet connection. If she has problems hardwired right to the ISP device, then you know it is something on their side.

What is the ISP device, just a modem, modem/router, if router is it in bridge mode etc?

 

[Zerpersande]

I'd say just leave the AC3200 in AP mode (or use AiMesh) and leave it strictly for downstairs coverage (if in fact you even need that, you may be fine with just the one router.

The entire thing started when my wife complained that my using my iPad or TV to stream was screwing up her wifi in her second floor office. So I moved the ISP modem moved from downstairs to my upstairs office and then hard-wired both my wife’s office and my own computer. While I was doing that I decided to run a cable downstairs to the Firestick, hoping to ensure consistent feed. THAT made me decide to just add another router while I was at it.

Let the AX be your router, DHCP server, DNS server, etc. Simpler setup, no double NAT, everything is managed in one place for the most part.

My life would honestly be easier if I could honestly tell her that a) she is on a completely different network from that of the downstairs router and b) that the setup is such that the only way I can ensure any less interference is to pay to have a totally different internet service line installed.

Of course after all this, she may still be having issues.

Some of this is a NTB issue* and thus cannot be resolved.

What is the ISP device, just a modem, modem/router, if router is it in bridge mode etc?

ISP provided a modem and in ’Wireless Router Mode’.

* Need To Bitch

 

[Zerpersande]

You still share the same Internet connection. There will be no difference in Zoom connection quality.

That’s cool. As I just told DrinkingBird, if I can honestly say that she is on an entirely different network by herself and that there is nothing that can be done to reduce interference further other than pay for another internet line, then I’m golden.

It's a newer model, but entry-level and not much faster than your RT-AC3200. You may not notice any difference.

It’s raining outside and I can’t work on my camper van or take my dog for a hike. I’ve got a new toy. My knowledge/ability of networking is probably higher than the average person, but in in over my head on this forum and know it. It’s a learning experience.

Right now I’m sitting in a swivel chair at my dining room table. I just swiveled to the left and took a pic of my fridge. My desk is right over that colored area. And there’s not even any insulation in that ceiling space. Then i swiveled to my right and took a pic of my TV in my living room. The AC85U is sitting behind those pictures on top.

Sometimes I do things I don’t NEED to do, just things I WANT to try.
Sometimes things turn out less than ideal.
But if I get bored, well, shi-, I mean ‘stuff’ happens.
The last time my wife came home from Germany the 3rd pic had happened. Just 8 weeks then.

 

[Zerpersande]

Is your wife on wifi?

Nope, she MUST use a hardwired connection for those conference calls.

What is the speed of your internet connection (down and up)?

From my Macbook on a 5G connection from the AC3200 I just got 595Mbps download and 174Mbps upload. On my iPad, same 5G I got 509/471. IPhone gives 440/365. Are those decent?

You can reuse one of the routers for your daughter … Not sure how close the apartment is but hardwiring the backhaul would be better if an option.

Heavy, earthquake resistant, lots of concrete steel, multi-story apartment building. Router in closet next to front door, TV at opposite end of apartment. Apparently no problems but iffy connection when we use it through my Macbook with VPN to Germany to watch soccer. (Son-in-law is a pro player there. They won last night.) We currently use a cable from a port in the living room.

 

[drinkingbird]

The entire thing started when my wife complained that my using my iPad or TV to stream was screwing up her wifi in her second floor office. So I moved the ISP modem moved from downstairs to my upstairs office and then hard-wired both my wife’s office and my own computer. While I was doing that I decided to run a cable downstairs to the Firestick, hoping to ensure consistent feed. THAT made me decide to just add another router while I was at it.


My life would honestly be easier if I could honestly tell her that a) she is on a completely different network from that of the downstairs router and b) that the setup is such that the only way I can ensure any less interference is to pay to have a totally different internet service line installed.

Some of this is a NTB issue* and thus cannot be resolved.


ISP provided a modem and in ’Wireless Router Mode’.

* Need To Bitch

1. Is your ISP device connected via ethernet - if so, ask them if you can remove it completely and make your new AX router the main router (right now theirs is the main router).
2. If not (connected via coax and that can't be changed to ethernet) can it be put into bridge mode, disabling the routing/NAT functionality, which would still let you make the AX router the "main" router? Some ISPs need their router in the path if you use their TV service (FIOS in the US does) as On Demand and TV Guide use the internet. But others do not need it at all. Some will let you bridge it, some won't. Usually you can go into the admin interface and change it if they allow it.

Since that is acting as a router currently, you're already in a double NAT situation, and their router may very well be the one causing issues if it is older, misconfigured, or malfunctioning. At the very least I'd disable the wifi in it and just leave it as a wired router only. Their wifi is just consuming spectrum that you need for your own devices.

If their router must stay configured as a rouer, if you do want to do 2 or 3 completely isolated routers then you would plug each one into the ISP router directly.

If you can get their router into bridge mode (acting as a modem only) then you could use your new router as your main router and hang the other one off that if you want. The second router would be double NAT'ing but generally not an issue. "Her" router would be directly connected now with no double NAT.

What is your internet up/down speed? Could just be that you don't have enough bandwidth for her conferencing and whatever you're doing. In which case QOS might help but separate routers will do nothing to help that.

 

[drinkingbird]

Nope, she MUST use a hardwired connection for those conference calls.

From my Macbook on a 5G connection from the AC3200 I just got 595Mbps download and 174Mbps upload. On my iPad, same 5G I got 509/471. IPhone gives 440/365. Are those decent?



Heavy, earthquake resistant, lots of concrete steel, multi-story apartment building. Router in closet next to front door, TV at opposite end of apartment. Apparently no problems but iffy connection when we use it through my Macbook with VPN to Germany to watch soccer. (Son-in-law is a pro player there. They won last night.) We currently use a cable from a port in the living room.

Yes your speeds are plenty, (though your macbook seems to have something limiting its upload speed, or maybe it was just a fluke with that speed test). You should have no issue with her being able to join calls via wifi even while you do stuff (unless you're downloading/uploading big files). If she can't video call while on wifi then I would suspect a driver or setting issue on her laptop is messed up (or she's just too far from the router). Even if you're streaming a 4k video, you have plenty of bandwidth for Zoom/Teams/etc even if she has the best webcam in the world consuming as much bandwidth as it can.

I thought you meant repeat your internet to your daughters apartment (nearby). If just using it as a repeater within her place, then yes it will work fine, flash latest firmware, factory reset, and set it to repeater mode during the initial setup. Place it somewhere midway between the router and the other end of the apartment. Though it sounds like your macbook has some issues so maybe that is the cause of the iffy connection and not her router?

 

[drinkingbird]

Nope, she MUST use a hardwired connection for those conference calls.

Another thing to check, when her PC is connected, make sure both sides report "1000/Full" and are set to "Auto". I believe the Asus doesn't allow you to hardcode but PCs typically do, you don't want one end hardcoded with the other end auto. Granted it is less of an issue with gig but still can result in problems. Also check the cabling being used, make sure it is at least Cat 5e and is less than 100 meters. No damage to the cable or ends, try to minimize running it parallel to power cords, etc.

I'm really starting to suspect either an issue with the ISP router or possibly their network (latency, jitter, packet loss).

Intermittent packet loss can often be seen by doing several speed tests from the same device (ideally the fastest one), if the speeds are pretty consistent, probably not an issue, if they vary, then that can be packet loss on their network. Latency and jitter, unless it is really bad, can be accounted for and overcome with Zoom and Teams so probably not the issue.

 

[Zerpersande]

1. Is your ISP device connected via ethernet - if so, ask them if you can remove it completely and make your new AX router the main router (right now theirs is the main router).

Guessing that, and probably most anything that requires a change to their modem, will get a hard NO. See pic at bottom. Top to bottom is the optical line in the telephone line, the line to my router and the power. No switches, no additional ports, just that modem.

2. tSome ISPs need their router in the path if you use their TV service (FIOS in the US does) as On Demand and TV Guide use the internet. But others do not need it at all. Some will let you bridge it, some won't.

With no switches on the outside and my experience with things Japanese, I’m guessing ‘No’.

Usually you can go into the admin interface and change it if they allow it.

Any idea how to do that? Or are you saying the admin interface for my router?

Since that is acting as a router currently, you're already in a double NAT situation, and their router may very well be the one causing issues if it is older, misconfigured, or malfunctioning. At the very least I'd disable the wifi in it and just leave it as a wired router only. Their wifi is just consuming spectrum that you need for your own devices.

All the wifi we are using is configured through out Asus modems.

If their router must stay configured as a rouer, if you do want to do 2 or 3 completely isolated routers then you would plug each one into the ISP router directly.

No can do. See pic.

 

[Zerpersande]

Yes your speeds are plenty, (though your macbook seems to have something limiting its upload speed, or maybe it was just a fluke with that speed test).

Just did the test again on the Macbook. Got 638/368.