Primary w/ two(2) secondary routers

[drinkingbird]

Guessing that, and probably most anything that requires a change to their modem, will get a hard NO. See pic at bottom. Top to bottom is the optical line in the telephone line, the line to my router and the power. No switches, no additional ports, just that modem.


With no switches on the outside and my experience with things Japanese, I’m guessing ‘No’.

Any idea how to do that? Or are you saying the admin interface for my router?


All the wifi we are using is configured through out Asus modems.

No can do. See pic.

OK so that is the ONT device, if there are no other devices, and it is configured as a "wireless router" that would imply that you require that device (it is acting as both ONT and wifi router), but may be able to put it in bridge mode or at least disable the wifi.

Does it broadcast its own wifi network?

Are you able to access the admin interface on that device? If so does it let you choose bridge, passthrough, modem only, something like that? To access the admin interface it often will say how on the side or in their documentation. The IP you'd access would be whatever your main Asus is getting as its "default gateway' if it is a router, probably a private IP. If it is just a modem then you can try 192.168.100.1, but if it is just a modem you don't need to change anything.

Here in the US the ONT is usually just a modem type device, no router or wifi functionality in it. But may be different there.

Does your Asus that is connected to it get a private or public IP address on the WAN? If public, it sounds like it is already running in bridge mode.

If it has to remain in router mode you could put a switch inline potentially and connect multiple devices to it, assuming it doesn't have some sort of limit in it. Usually if it is handing out private IPs then it doesn't care how many devices are connected since it is acting as a router.

 

[Zerpersande]

Another thing to check, when her PC is connected, make sure both sides report "1000/Full" and are set to "Auto". I believe the Asus doesn't allow you to hardcode but PCs typically do, you don't want one end hardcoded with the other end auto.

Check where, in the router GUI?

Also check the cabling being used, make sure it is at least Cat 5e and is less than 100 meters. No damage to the cable or ends, try to minimize running it parallel to power cords, etc.

Cat 7, heavy duty cable, either 10 or 15m long, so max length is 50’. It shares a channel with a DC adapter cord, but not near any AC cords.

I'm really starting to suspect either an issue with the ISP router or possibly their network (latency, jitter, packet loss).

Don’t neglect NTB issues.

Latency and jitter, unless it is really bad, can be accounted for and overcome with Zoom and Teams so probably not the issue.

Oh, yeah, she usually uses Teams. The most recent problem at least she thinks is a Teams issue. I use Zoom for 2 of my classes and the only problems I have had are with getting my students to setup the software correctly. NO connection problems EVER and I’m on the same router with a similar hardwired connection.

The difference is my situation is all domestic participants. The wife deals with some participants being in Japan and others being in Germany, Sweden, the US and a couple of others.

 

[Zerpersande]

OK so that is the ONT device, if there are no other devices, and it is configured as a "wireless router" that would imply that you require that device (it is acting as both ONT and wifi router), but may be able to put it in bridge mode or at least disable the wifi.

Maybe. I can already hear air being sucked their teeth followed by “それはちょっと” which is literally ‘That’s a little…’ and cognitively similar to ‘When pigs fly’.

Does it broadcast its own wifi network?

Not that I know of. Really don’t think so.

Are you able to access the admin interface on that device? If so does it let you choose bridge, passthrough, modem only, something like that?

No access that I know of.

Does your Asus that is connected to it get a private or public IP address? If public, it sounds like it is already running in bridge mode.

How can I determine that?

 

[drinkingbird]

Check where, in the router GUI?

Yeah there and also on her PC under the network properties, it will be in there somewhere.

Cat 7, heavy duty cable, either 10 or 15m long, so max length is 50’. It shares a channel with a DC adapter cord, but not near any AC cords.

Should be fine there as long as no damage to the cable and the ends are secure (cable hasn't pulled out).

Don’t neglect NTB issues.

LOL

Oh, yeah, she usually uses Teams. The most recent problem at least she thinks is a Teams issue. I use Zoom for 2 of my classes and the only problems I have had are with getting my students to setup the software correctly. NO connection problems EVER and I’m on the same router with a similar hardwired connection.

The difference is my situation is all domestic participants. The wife deals with some participants being in Japan and others being in Germany, Sweden, the US and a couple of others.

That could very well be the issue. I regularly use teams between the US and UK and rarely any issues (occasionally but it is often the person's internet connection having issues). With APAC it can be a bit more spotty due to the high latency, but usually still fine 98% of the time. If the issue is mostly with distant participants there may just be nothing you can do other than put her on her own segment as you said, to basically absolve yourself of any fault. The fact that she seems to think it is only when you are streaming could just be coincidence or conjecture. With your speeds (very good) I can't see any problems doing teams and zoom simultaneously, even with lots of participants.

Is it something that used to work then started having issues, or just has never worked well with Teams?

 

[Zerpersande]

Also, I appreciate your assistance on this. Other than the NTB incidence rate the actual problem hasn’t presented itself to me. I don’t like the ‘Not connected to internet’ being displayed on the AC85U but the router is working fine.

 

[drinkingbird]

Maybe. I can already hear air being sucked their teeth followed by “それはちょっと” which is literally ‘That’s a little…’ and cognitively similar to ‘When pigs fly’.

Not that I know of. Really don’t think so.

No access that I know of.

How can I determine that?

When you log into the Asus (the one connected to their device) you should be able to see the "WAN IP" right on the main page. If it starts with 192, 172, or 10 it is a private IP. If it starts with 100 - that is Carrier NAT and a whole other ballgame but still considered "public".

If you are getting something other than 192, 172, or 10 then their device is probably just acting as a modem/bridge. Where do you see "wireless router". Was that in the Asus?

If you click on the globe on the asus (to the left of where it says WAN IP) on the right side you should be able to see the gateway. If it is in one of those private ranges, you can try accessing that IP in your web browser, but you'd need to know the login info. Here it is usually printed on the device but sounds like they're more restrictive there. And if it isn't a private range, then it likely is not a router anyway and there is nothing in it to manage anyway.

 

[drinkingbird]

Also, I appreciate your assistance on this. Other than the NTB incidence rate the actual problem hasn’t presented itself to me. I don’t like the ‘Not connected to internet’ being displayed on the AC85U but the router is working fine.

Gives me something to do at 3AM while monitoring the UK market open.

If the AC85U is daisy chained off the AC3200 that can just mean it isn't getting everything it needs from DHCP or could just be a bug. A setting tweak may fix that but if it is working, then not a big deal.

 

[Zerpersande]

Does your Asus that is connected to it get a private or public IP address on the WAN? If public, it sounds like it is already running in bridge mode.

WAN connection type: Automatic IP

 

[Zerpersande]

When you log into the Asus (the one connected to their device) you should be able to see the "WAN IP" right on the main page. If it starts with 192, 172, or 10 it is a private IP. If it starts with 100 - that is Carrier NAT and a whole other ballgame but still considered "public".

WAN IP: 139.

 

[drinkingbird]

WAN connection type: Automatic IP

Yeah that's normal, but what is the IP seen in the spot I've circled in red (just the first few digits, whatever is before the first "." is fine, for privacy)

 

[drinkingbird]

WAN IP: 139.

Ah ok, so their device is just a bridge, so your AC3200 is acting as the main router, which is good. No need to change anything on their device. The "wireless router" you were seeing I'm assuming was in the Asus.

 

[Zerpersande]

If you click on the globe on the asus (to the left of where it says WAN IP) on the right side you should be able to see the gateway. If it is in one of those private ranges, you can try accessing that IP in your web browser, but you'd need to know the login info.

That’s new and interesting. Seems I don’t own that address, just lease it. A 6 hr lease which expires in about 2.5 hrs.

 

[Zerpersande]

Yeah that's normal, but what is the IP seen in the spot I've circled in red (just the first few digits, whatever is before the first "." is fine, for privacy)

View attachment 45477

Starts with 139. Ditto for the DNS and Gateway

 

[Zerpersande]

Ah ok, so their device is just a bridge, so your AC3200 is acting as the main router, which is good. No need to change anything on their device. The "wireless router" you were seeing I'm assuming was in the Asus.

Cool

 

[Zerpersande]

If the AC85U is daisy chained off the AC3200 that can just mean it isn't getting everything it needs from DHCP or could just be a bug. A setting tweak may fix that but if it is working, then not a big deal.

Ir wouldn’t let me update the firmware b/c of that situation. I guess the ‘bugk convinced the router that there was no connection so the router doesn’t ‘look’.

 

[drinkingbird]

That’s new and interesting. Seems I don’t own that address, just lease it. A 6 hr lease which expires in about 2.5 hrs.

Yup, totally normal (my ISP only gives 2 hours leases). If you pay for a static IP that goes away but no reason to do that for you. You'll typically keep that IP for a long time unless you reboot the device or leave it offline for a while.

OK so we've determined that your ISP device is just a bridge to convert the fiber to ethernet (and link into the phone system). That's the same as ONTs (Optical Network Terminals) here in the US. You're already connected to it via ethernet which is also good, your router is the "master" of sorts.

I would say if you really want to isolate her (from a networking perspective, I can't comment on the other type of isolation ), put the new AX router connected to their box, then connect her directly to one port on the AX, and your AC router (whichever one you want to keep) off another port. Then all your devices other than her laptop will use the AC router (wired and/or wifi).

Note that on the AC router you'll need to pick a different LAN subnet from the default or it will conflict with the AX router. I think their newer routers are now using something other than 192.168.1.x so you may actually be ok out of the box, since the AC is using the older 192.168.1.x.

Anything off the AC router will get double NAT'd but that is typically not an issue.

On the AX router you can make sure you're getting good link speeds on this screen at the bottom. I'd expect your WAN, and the ports connecting to her and your AC router to all report 1 Gbps (my wired devices are all asleep and they revert to 100M when sleeping).

You can confirm the same on the "other end" but looking in the AC router to make sure the uplink to the AX is showing 1G and also on her computer which should show 1000/Full or in newer versions of windows it may just say 1Gbps. I don't think you have a speed/duplex issue if you've got good cabling.

 

[drinkingbird]

Ir wouldn’t let me update the firmware b/c of that situation. I guess the ‘bugk convinced the router that there was no connection so the router doesn’t ‘look’.

EDIT - to summarize my rambling
Main router - currently 3200, eventually AX router - click on LAN on the left menu, your current one probably has 192.168.1.1 for the IP. The new AX may use another range (I think they're now using 192.168.50.1), but you can change it back to 192.168.1.1 for simplicity. Whatever you put there, the "DHCP" tab on that same screen will automatically update to use 2-254 for the DHCP range.

Second router - make sure it is using something different from the main router in the second to last number. 192.168.2.1 is probably the simplest. It will automatically update DHCP range. After saving you'll need to log in to the new IP or close your browser and open a fresh one and go to "router.asus.com" which should pick up the new IP of the router. That router should now be happy, see that it has an internet connection, be able to update firmware, etc. If it was in fact using the same LAN range that the main router was, I'm surprised internet was working at all, at least without lots of weirdness.

 

[drinkingbird]

While I finish my beer -

If you're set on the dual router setup, here is what I would do

AX router - WAN connected to the ISP box, and one LAN port connected to her PC. If she has no plans to use wireless, disable it completely in the AX. Or if she wants to try it, set up a unique SSID for that router. Incorporate NTB in the name if you have a death wish.
LAN IP 192.168.1.1

Whichever AC router you keep
Plug WAN into LAN of the AX router.
LAN IP 192.168.2.1
WIFI SSID different from the AX router (if you enable wifi on the AX).
If you use wifi on both, make sure they aren't using the same channel on either 2.4 or 5ghz. If you leave them to auto they should pick different channels from each other, or you can hard code them to use different ones.

From your machine, if you have wifi enabled on both, you can now choose which router to connect to based on the SSID. Maybe if her issues are gone, you can secretly connect to the AX wifi while she's on a call and see if the issues stay gone. Again, if you have a death wish, toss out an "I told you so".

 

[Zerpersande]

EDIT - to summarize my rambling

All of the info will become very useful when my ‘same day delivery’ router arrives in about an hour.

Second router - make sure it is using something different from the main router in the second to last number. 192.168.2.1 is probably the simplest. It will automatically update DHCP range.

I was using 192.168.1.2 for the AC85U with the AC3200 at 192.168.1.1

 

[Tech9]

I was using 192.168.1.2 for the AC85U with the AC3200 at 192.168.1.1

Because your RT-AC85U is/was an Access Point. Use 192.168.2.1 if/when you switch it to Router. Make sure you keep the same residential address with your wife after all the changes. You don't need 2x or 3x routers, except to play around with some settings and kill some time. Just one router with her computer wired to it and Wi-Fi enabled is all you really need. I have an idea what's the average size apartment in Japan.