Question on how to convert point to point MOCA2.0 to tree

[kalex1114]

Hello

I'm currently running 2 ECB6250 adapters to extend my LAN to my main floor from the garage. Now i need to add second location and I don't want to setup another point to point connection but rather convert my current setup to a tree setup so that I can just add one more ecb6250 to the location where i need ethernet.

Here is a picture of what it looks like now. Location i'm trying to add is office.

How do I accomplish this? Where do i put the moca 2.0 splitter?

Thank you

 

[degrub]

What does the physical cable layout look like ?
The above appears to be logical layout.

 

[kalex1114]

What does the physical cable layout look like ?
The above appears to be logical layout.

Dotted lines are physical coax cables. All coax runs aggregate in the garage. Office location has coax run to the garage

 

[degrub]

then you split at the coax aggregation point.

Check other posts in this forum or the FIOS tech support pages for example installations.

i believe this will be a physical star with each of the Actiontec coax in ports connected to the splitter.

 

[kalex1114]

Tried searching but didn’t find anything
Would putting moca 2.0 splitting at the garage coax in do the trick?

 

[tannebil]

You don't show a coax run from the office to either the garage or the main floor. You need a coax run from either the garage or the main floor. That's where you'll install the splitter.

 

[kalex1114]

You don't show a coax run from the office to either the garage or the main floor. You need a coax run from either the garage or the main floor. That's where you'll install the splitter.

There is a coax run from office to garage.

 

[kalex1114]

Do i put a splitter before coax in on ecb6200 in the garage?

 

[tannebil]

Your coax physical wiring is unclear from the diagram. Are all the cable outlets in the house connected back to the garage? If so, install a MoCA 2.0 compatible splitter in the garage that connects the ONT (input) to all the coax runs you are using. Don’t daisy-chain the MoCA adapters.

If that doesn’t describe your coax wiring, I’ll need a more accurate description/diagram of your coax wiring.

You do need to remember that the splitter will reduce the signal strength on all the lines. If we are only talking about three lines, you should be fine but if there are actually eight lines, it could become an issue. Not so much for MoCA but for the TiVo and any other ser-top boxes you are using.

 

[kalex1114]

tannebil - I have a total of 5 locations with coax runs. 3 bedrooms, living room, office. all of them come back to the garage. ONT is also in the garage. Currently i have 2 ecb6200 adapters. One in the garage and one in the living room where tivo is. ONT cable connects to coax in and living room coax cable connects to stb/tv out on that ecb6200. On the living room ecb cable from the wall plate connects to coax in and then another coax connects to tivo from stb/tv on ecb6200. I use that to connect my living room devices to the network (network switch, tivo, amazon firetv and phillips hue hub). it works fine. I only care about 2 locations - living room and office. I ordered Moca 2.0 2 way splitter which will arrive today. Also ordered 3rd ecb6200 which arrived yesterday for the office location.

If I understand it correctly i will remove ONT coax from coax in on the garage ecb6200 and put a moca splitter on it. Then one output from the splitter will connect to coax in on ecb6200 in the garage and second one will connect to the office coax run?

 

[kalex1114]

Ok So i think i got it working.
I connected Coax from ONT to coax in on ecb6200 adapter in the garage. Then used stb/tv out connection to connect it to moca splitter in and connected living room coax run to first out on the splitter and office coax run as second out on the splitter. Seems to work fine.
Living room has coax from the wall going into ecb6200 coax in and then coax from TV out on ecb6200 to tivo coax in. Ethernet goes to a small 8 port switch at the same location
Office has coax from the wall plate going into ecb6200 coax in and Ethernet cable into mini 5 port switch.
Pictures attached. Does this connection make sense? i have ethernet connectivity at both locations and Tivo has fios tv signal.

 

[tannebil]

I've never daisy-chained MoCA adapters the way you are doing it but it sounds like it works.

A more conventional configuration would be to connect the ONT to a 3-way splitter with one output from the splitter going to the coax-in on the moca adapter in the garage, the living room, and the office. The only obvious issue with the way you've done it is that if there is a problem with the garage ecb6200, it's likely to knock out the connections to the other two rooms as well.

 

[kalex1114]

I've never daisy-chained MoCA adapters the way you are doing it but it sounds like it works.

A more conventional configuration would be to connect the ONT to a 3-way splitter with one output from the splitter going to the coax-in on the moca adapter in the garage, the living room, and the office. The only obvious issue with the way you've done it is that if there is a problem with the garage ecb6200, it's likely to knock out the connections to the other two rooms as well.

I'll try that. Just need to get 3 way splitter. I only got 2 way.

Is there a difference between 5.5db and 7.5db spliltters? should I go for 5.5 or 7.5?

 

[degrub]

That number refers to how much signal strength is lost passing through the splitter. Always go for the lower number for longer or runs with several connections. Every connection costs 3dB of signal strength. You have to count the signal loss for each path by adding up the number of connections and connections through special devices like a splitter. So worst case is likely from one MOCA adapter to the furthest away MOCA adapter going via the splitter.
If you get a splitter with more than 3 ports or have unused ports, be sure to install the 75 ohm termination cap on the unused port. Otherwise you can have issues with the signal on the wire.

 

[tannebil]

The only 3-way MoCA splitters I've seen are "unbalanced" with two outputs at -7.5db loss and one at 3.5db. Think of it like a 2-way splittter daisy-chained with a second 2-way. One port on the first splitter has a 3.5 loss while the two ports on the second one each have 3,5+3.5. The extra 0.5db is likely the loss on the second iuput port.

Wouldn't be surprised if that's actually what is going on internal to the 3-way but don't actually know the mechanical details in splitters.

 

[krkaufman]

The only 3-way MoCA splitters I've seen are "unbalanced" with two outputs at -7.5db loss and one at 3.5db.

Holland's GHS-PRO-M series (specs here) offers either:

• Unbalanced 3-way (3.9, 7.7, 7.7)
  
• Balanced 3-way (5.5, 5.5, 5.5)

Just need to get 3 way splitter. ...

Is there a difference between 5.5db and 7.5db spliltters? should I go for 5.5 or 7.5?

Assuming you're referring to a balanced ("5.5") vs unbalanced ("7.5") 3-way splitter, one would use an unbalanced splitter where the low-loss output connects to either a device requiring a stronger signal, or if there's another split downstream and connecting this line via the low-loss output then results in a more balanced signal across all coax outlets.

 

[krkaufman]

If you get a splitter with more than 3 ports or have unused ports, be sure to install the 75 ohm termination cap on the unused port. Otherwise you can have issues with the signal on the wire.

And seriously consider right-sizing your splitters to the number of ports needed, rather than leaving ports unused (even if properly terminated, per @degrub's recommendation).

 

[degrub]

Ok So i think i got it working.
I connected Coax from ONT to coax in on ecb6200 adapter in the garage. Then used stb/tv out connection to connect it to moca splitter in and connected living room coax run to first out on the splitter and office coax run as second out on the splitter. Seems to work fine.
Living room has coax from the wall going into ecb6200 coax in and then coax from TV out on ecb6200 to tivo coax in. Ethernet goes to a small 8 port switch at the same location
Office has coax from the wall plate going into ecb6200 coax in and Ethernet cable into mini 5 port switch.
Pictures attached. Does this connection make sense? i have ethernet connectivity at both locations and Tivo has fios tv signal.

So connecting to the stb/tv out port only passes signal below 1,000 MHz if i recall correctly from the specs. Not sure you can run MOCA2 bandwidth as it uses D extended channels which are above that. Maybe MOCA 1 or 1.1. Have you tried running iperf or looked at the ECB diagnostic page to confirm physical rate between the ECBs ?

 

[krkaufman]

So connecting to the stb/tv out port only passes signal below 1,000 MHz if i recall correctly from the specs. Not sure you can run MOCA2 bandwidth as it uses D extended channels which are above that.

Right. The adapters supposedly use a diplexer as the means for diverting the MoCA/sub-MoCA signals where they need to go, so a very small MoCA setup may still be able to connect using that port, but the performance should be affected. If the MoCA adapters *are* able to make a connection via that port, the stats will likely show that they are either having to work much harder to make/maintain the connection -- exhibited by higher power levels or a sub-optimal link rate. A parallel thread, here, from just the other day provided an example where a connection is possible even when improperly connected to another MoCA adapter's pass-through port; a connection would become more difficult as the coax connection grows more complex.

edit: p.s. @kalex1114, it would be interesting to see what your Main Floor ECB6200 is reporting for stats, when it is connected via the STB/TV Out port of the Garage ECB6200. Looking for the table/chart similar to the following:

 

[krkaufman]

Do i put a splitter before coax in on ecb6200 in the garage?

Yes, and as has since been discussed, you need a 3-way or greater splitter if you're looking to hook-up 3 locations. That you've been able to make and maintain a MoCA connection when connecting via the STB/TV Out pass-through port of a MoCA adapter is a bit surprising, per the just-prior posts. You may want to check/document the MoCA stats reported for your MoCA adapters before making too many changes.

As for additional feedback on the setup...

• I'm more than a little perplexed at how you have a LAN or Internet connection, owing to the absence of any router in the diagram. Do you have a G1100, MI424-WR or other box(es) somewhere outside the scope of the diagram? If so, what specific model, and in what room/location?
  
  edit: Or is the device in the Garage connected to the ECB6200's Ethernet port your gateway, which is connected via (a not depicted) Cat6 cable to the ONT for its Ethernet WAN connection?
  
  
• As the number of splits needed to service device endpoints grows, how you split the incoming signal may matter. Typically, you'd want to ensure that the modem/gateway and any DVRs have the best possible signal, while MoCA-only endpoints don't require the incoming signal at all. edit: Basically what @tannebil said earlier...
  

  You do need to remember that the splitter will reduce the signal strength on all the lines. If we are only talking about three lines, you should be fine but if there are actually eight lines, it could become an issue. Not so much for MoCA but for the TiVo and any other ser-top boxes you are using.

  
  
• The diagram doesn't depict a "PoE" MoCA filter. Though a fiber setup such as this doesn't require a "PoE" MoCA filter for the purpose of securing the MoCA network, the "PoE" MoCA filter also provides a performance benefit, more critical as the complexity of a coax tree grows. For best performance, the "PoE" MoCA filter should be installed directly on the input of the root/top-level splitter. (more info here)

• What is your spec'd Internet download/upload speed?

• TURBO/Enhanced MoCA 2.0, as possible with a point-to-point connection between 2 adapters, offers a slight bump in max throughput, 1000 Mbps vs the 800 Mbps max of bonded MoCA 2.0.

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edit: p.s. A couple alternatives ...

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