Reviewing Products for Reliability/Stability?

[DaveMcLain]

I enjoy The Small Net Builder website a great deal. I've learned a ton of useful information from the articles and reviews but I have one question. Is there any way possible for you to include overall reliability and stability when you review a wireless and or networking product? The reason I'm asking is that I have a D-Link DIR-655 router A2 version that I can only get about 2 days of service from before having to reboot the box. I have upgraded the firmware(probably a mistake from what I've read) and it's just not reliable. The hardware is nice and I like the router when it's working.

I have a Netgear WGR614V9 that I bought for $40 which I have in my network now and it works great for months without any rebooting required. It's not as powerful as the D-Link example and is only using 802.11g but it's been RELIABLE. I need to have a network that works not one that requires work every few days. I can live without "N" because I don't make any really large file transfers to my NAS via wireless anyway.

This seems like a very important factor in a review for this sort of equipment but I'm not sure how it could be evaluated accurately if you only have the equipment in hand for a short period of time.......

I know the WGR614 has been out for ages in 9 versions but has it ever been reviewed on Small Net Builder? I couldn't find an article.

 

[thiggins]

It's just not practical for me to do reliability / stability testing on products. It takes too long and there are too many variables involved to produce meaningful results.

The only thing I have been doing for wireless products is running them at least for an hour with full-speed receive/transmit IxChariot script, to see if that produces any problems. It's not much, I know.

I actually have a WGR614 V7 that I had NETGEAR send for testing quite some time ago. But I got consumed with draft 11n product and never got around to it.

 

[DaveMcLain]

Again using the D-Link DIR-655 as an example. In my case the load on the router was always pretty light but over time it would simply quit working. Power cycling cures the problem. In my experience I've had many routers which are without question inferior when it comes to routing performance, simultaneous connections or features run for incredibly long time periods without a hitch(I think that all routers should be able to do this). Is this something that's becoming worse or better as newer models from Linksys, D-Link, Netgear etc come onto the scene?

Where should someone look when they want to buy something that once it's set up it'll work till you pull the plug?

I do wish you would review the little Netgear WGR614 because I've never found a comprehensive review done on that product. I've only used the V7 and the V9 which have been good for me but I can't speak for the other versions.

 

[thiggins]

Draft N routers are using new chipsets and bugs are still being worked out. Also, the chipsets run faster and hotter, so thermal issues are at play, too.

Your best bet is to check forums for comments on prospective buys. I usually check dslreports.

I might test the WGR614, but it's not worth doing a full review on at this point.

 

[DaveMcLain]

A little over a week ago I did some more reading on the DIR-655 and what causes the hangs with the 1.32 firmware version. DNS relay is the culprit and after disabling that feature it's been solid and working perfectly for a week. Wireless range is excellent etc. The whole problem with the device is firmware related and in the case of the D-Link you CAN'T downgrade to an older and more stable version! Uggh. Who writes and tests these firmware products anyway? Do companies like D-Link do this in house or is it something that's farmed out? This could make an interesting story especially with 3rd party firmwares being available for many routers. Do OEM's ever take ideas/code from the 3rd party firmwares to make their stuff better? Or are firmwares like DD-WRT generally any more reliable than anything else on a given piece of hardware?

 

[tipstir]

A little over a week ago I did some more reading on the DIR-655 and what causes the hangs with the 1.32 firmware version. DNS relay is the culprit and after disabling that feature it's been solid and working perfectly for a week. Wireless range is excellent etc. The whole problem with the device is firmware related and in the case of the D-Link you CAN'T downgrade to an older and more stable version! Uggh. Who writes and tests these firmware products anyway? Do companies like D-Link do this in house or is it something that's farmed out? This could make an interesting story especially with 3rd party firmwares being available for many routers. Do OEM's ever take ideas/code from the 3rd party firmwares to make their stuff better? Or are firmwares like DD-WRT generally any more reliable than anything else on a given piece of hardware?

Yes you can downgrade it can be done. But DLINK won't let you downgrade. I have this router also and DNS Relay isn't the only issue. You can't even assign IP addresses if you do then you'll have issues with Reserved/Revoked. Xtreme N has been Lousy N. I've gone with Belkin N+ never needed to reboot it until now. I can't even get into the Web Admin to check on things it been running for 5 months with out any power drops from the Power Light company. Now of these N routers seem stable, I waiting for the Standard N to appear more.

 

[tipstir]

Belkin N+ broadcasting again in 802.11n mode only and DIR-655 802.11n only at 40Hz but only access point.

 

[DaveMcLain]

My DIR-655 has been up and running now for about three weeks without any problems at all.

I have DNS relay and advanced DNS features set to disabled. This seemed to be the fix that was needed to make this box reliable in my application.

I don't really understand why DNS relay was really ever needed. I use Speakeasy's DNS server and I have that entered into the router and that's what it assigns to the clients through DHCP. I don't see what is really gained by having 192.168.1.1(the routers IP address) assigned instead as the DNS server.

I do have several(3) devices on my network which use static IP addresses but I'm not having to use the router to assign them so I can't speak about that feature.

It just seems wacky to me that certain rather basic features have to be turned off so that the router will run reliably. How could they release it with these problems? Did they really do no testing? High performance and advanced features can be nice but reliability should be the number one feature in this sort of product. 99% of all the users will have it in a setup that's very simple like mine where the box serves about 10 client devices max.

 

[jdabbs]

I don't see what is really gained by having 192.168.1.1(the routers IP address) assigned instead as the DNS server.

If your ISP changes the DNS servers in its lease to your router, your clients won't need an updated lease.

 

[DaveMcLain]

Yes that's true but in my case where I'm not using a DNS server that's assigned by the ISP it shouldn't matter right?

 

[jdabbs]

Yes that's true but in my case where I'm not using a DNS server that's assigned by the ISP it shouldn't matter right?

It doesn't matter who assigns it. If it needs to be changed for any reason, DNS relay would save the effort of having to update clients.

Actual benefit depends on how often the DNS info changes, and the number of clients. Personally, I'd have it turned off for easier troubleshooting.

 

[ablevy]

Reverting to the question originally posed, why not do a poll similar to those Consumer Reports does. Open it to anyone in the forum. You could then gather the data and get a feel for which models seem to be more reliable. The problem may be complicated by firmware versions, but in fact could be handled.

Alan

 

[thiggins]

Reverting to the question originally posed, why not do a poll similar to those Consumer Reports does. Open it to anyone in the forum. You could then gather the data and get a feel for which models seem to be more reliable. The problem may be complicated by firmware versions, but in fact could be handled.

In the first incarnation of SmallNetBuilder (many years ago), we didn't have the Charts, but had product databases. For each product, anyone was free to rate the product on reliability, features and performance on a 1-5 scale, plus post comments.

I may bring something like that back.

 

[LeeNYPost]

In the first incarnation of SmallNetBuilder (many years ago), we didn't have the Charts, but had product databases. For each product, anyone was free to rate the product on reliability, features and performance on a 1-5 scale, plus post comments.

I may bring something like that back.

That sounds like a great idea Tim. Between all the users rating and your reviews I'm sure it will just further peoples knowledge and help everyone make educated decisions when buying new gear.

 

[Osamede]

In my experience I've had many routers which are without question inferior when it comes to routing performance, simultaneous connections or features run for incredibly long time periods without a hitch(I think that all routers should be able to do this).....Where should someone look when they want to buy something that once it's set up it'll work till you pull the plug?

This is what I keep telling folks when they swallow all the marketing manure shovelled at us about the latest shiny doo dad from LinkGearSys and company. Most of them are just thrown up against the wall for 5 mins of marketing hype and then on to next product hype - they are just far too unstable.

A router is something you're supposed to install, stick in a closet and never have to think about. It should be invisible. If you gotta wonder about roboting and firmware updates every other week or whatever, its not worth the time or 10% "discount" or 10 dollar rebate that you had to wait 4 weeks in the mail for.

And for me so far Draytek is the only router that has met that standard.