Router for P2P usage

[eigna]

I just received the Netopia 2210-02 from AT&T here in Miami. While researching as to why my connection felt sluggish at times even while limitting my P2P download to half my down speed and up speed. I ran the connection analyzer at:
http://www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php
and saw that my MTU said 1448. Yet I have it set to 1492 on my NIC. I dug deeper and found:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20740269-Modem-Netopia-2210-MTU-cap

So it seems that it IS capped thru the modem/router itself. Also in moderate p2p (Bitorrent or eMule) even limitting the speed to half seems to still give me bad results in online games (high latency of 1000+).

Now I haven't changed my MTU yet on my NIC, but I am just thinking of putting it in bridged mode and using a router that I'll go out and buy. But I would like to know if doing something else would maybe yield better result.

1. Would changing the MTU on the NIC to 1448 provide better latency due to no fragmenting of packets?

2. If not or if I should go with a router what router should I get? I'm looking for something around the $50 or so range. I've used a DLink EBR-2310 Rev. A, before and it crashes/reboots under moderate to heavy P2P use. I've also used a DIR-655 and that seems to do well, but it's in the $100+ range. I don't care whether it's a wired or wireless router, but it has to have at least 1 wired port, since I actually don't have a wireless NIC. I would like a cheap router that can handle many concurrent connections.

I have looked at the cheap router roundup, but that article is quite dated, and the Airlink seems extinct. Any chance it could get updated every 1-2 years, since tech changes quickly?

I'm not averse to spending a bit more in order to get the number of connections, but I would like to save a few bucks where if possible.

Thanks for any help you may provide.

 

[jdabbs]

Capable, cheap, stable: choose two. And you want to game and P2P at the same time.

You could get a DIR-625 for $54 via Amazon. That price is more than $20 lower than the next guy, so don't expect that rate to wait.

There are better routers, and they cost more. Sub-$50 means wading through mediocrity to find the least-crippled hardware.

 

[tipstir]

I just received the Netopia 2210-02 from AT&T here in Miami. While researching as to why my connection felt sluggish at times even while limitting my P2P download to half my down speed and up speed. I ran the connection analyzer at:
http://www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php
and saw that my MTU said 1448. Yet I have it set to 1492 on my NIC. I dug deeper and found:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20740269-Modem-Netopia-2210-MTU-cap

So it seems that it IS capped thru the modem/router itself. Also in moderate p2p (Bitorrent or eMule) even limitting the speed to half seems to still give me bad results in online games (high latency of 1000+).

Now I haven't changed my MTU yet on my NIC, but I am just thinking of putting it in bridged mode and using a router that I'll go out and buy. But I would like to know if doing something else would maybe yield better result.

1. Would changing the MTU on the NIC to 1448 provide better latency due to no fragmenting of packets?

2. If not or if I should go with a router what router should I get? I'm looking for something around the $50 or so range. I've used a DLink EBR-2310 Rev. A, before and it crashes/reboots under moderate to heavy P2P use. I've also used a DIR-655 and that seems to do well, but it's in the $100+ range. I don't care whether it's a wired or wireless router, but it has to have at least 1 wired port, since I actually don't have a wireless NIC. I would like a cheap router that can handle many concurrent connections.

I have looked at the cheap router roundup, but that article is quite dated, and the Airlink seems extinct. Any chance it could get updated every 1-2 years, since tech changes quickly?

I'm not averse to spending a bit more in order to get the number of connections, but I would like to save a few bucks where if possible.

Thanks for any help you may provide.

MTU
DSL=1492
CABLE=1500

AT&T well former SBC and Bell South (where you are) if it's DSL it's going to be slow. I had SBC portion for years with SBC Yahoo DSL. Sure you can try to speed it up but in the end it's going to be slow and sluggish. Now with the throttling back it's worst. I think you now have Comcast in your area too. I know they're in Boca Raton where I am at in the Summer Home. What plan did you get with them AT&T? I had there best one before leaving them 6mb/s down and don't remember the up. I could only get 5mb/s then they told me only 3mb/s was allowed.

Oh well can you get Cable internet? If you stick with AT&T you can follow this design I had used with SBC former. Managed 30kb/s with the below.

If you have module box outside the home you can stick DSL line filter in there and then get better downloads speeds maybe 50kb/s - 100kb/s. Then you don't need to have DSL line filters in the home. All I know when the tier lever 3 tech check my lines it was very strong from the modem back to the SBC DSL office in NC. Don't use phone cord that they provide you I always use Belkin Ultra phone line Cat 5e, but APC also makes that now. Hey everything helps to make DSL a bit faster.

If you need fast router DGL4100 wired there are BT routers gig wired routers from Planex you can find those on newegg. Or the DIR-625 can be a wired router, just disable the wireless feature. All wireless routers can do this if they have the feature to disable the radio (wireless).

Note: Pictured with NID (network interface device) older homes usually have these. They should be replace to use the module type which you could access and stick in your own DSL line filter which you would only need one to use. Just to let you know in time they do go bad and screw the DSL badly.

 

[eigna]

jdabbs: thanks for that link, I will definately be considering that one as under the review on the site it can take 200 simultaneous connections.

tipstir: ATM DSL is the cheaper alternative to me. Luckily the lines around here seem to be fine. A friend of mine has Xtreme 6.0 and does get 6.0+ speeds. My issue is centered more around the supplied modem and it's limitations. Seems to me that the DIR-625 has almost the same feature set to the DGL-4100. QOS seems to be the main selling point. No Gigabit seems to me the only difference? (My NIC is only 100) Are there others?

 

[tipstir]

jdabbs: thanks for that link, I will definately be considering that one as under the review on the site it can take 200 simultaneous connections.

tipstir: ATM DSL is the cheaper alternative to me. Luckily the lines around here seem to be fine. A friend of mine has Xtreme 6.0 and does get 6.0+ speeds. My issue is centered more around the supplied modem and it's limitations. Seems to me that the DIR-625 has almost the same feature set to the DGL-4100. QOS seems to be the main selling point. No Gigabit seems to me the only difference? (My NIC is only 100) Are there others?

Which DSL modem (make/model) do you have?

 

[eigna]

The Netopia 2210, as I referenced thru the link in my original post as to the MTU hardlimit on it.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20740269-Modem-Netopia-2210-MTU-cap

 

[tipstir]

The Netopia 2210, as I referenced thru the link in my original post as to the MTU hardlimit on it.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20740269-Modem-Netopia-2210-MTU-cap

Modem from Motorola again. I know there cable modems aren't as fast as mine. I see you have a lot reporting on your problem on Broadband reports. The best modem that was introduce was the DSL SpeedStream 5370 after that it gone down hill. 4100 was crap. I see you're not happen with the new installment.

 

[eigna]

Well headed to OfficeMax and picked up a DIR-625 rev C2 with 3.04 firmware, that I upgraded to 3.06. For some reason it drops my PPP connection after many connections. The router does not reboot, but just disconnects from the DSL. I've deleted my IPs. This does not happen if I use the modem itself. Here is the log:

[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 Time synchronized
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 Requesting time from 64.7.210.145
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 Time server ntp1.dlink.com is at IP address 64.7.210.145
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 Starting WAN Services
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 Estimating speed of WAN interface
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 WAN interface is up. Connection to Internet established with IP Address *deleted* and default gateway *deleted*
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:18 2008 PPP network up with IP Address *deleted*
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 WAN interface is down
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 LCP sets local options: ACCM: 00000000, ACFC: 1, PFC: 0, MRU: 1492
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 LCP sets remote auth: C223
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 LCP sets remote options: ACCM: FFFFFFFF, ACFC: 1, PFC: 0, MRU: 1492
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 PPPoE session 0x0164 established
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 PPPoE confirming session offer
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 PPPoE received session offer
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:27:17 2008 Trying to establish a PPPoE connection
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:47 2008 Terminating PPPoE session 0x39D4
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:47 2008 PPP network down
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:47 2008 WAN interface is down
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:47 2008 LCP sets remote auth: 00000000
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:47 2008 LCP sets remote options: ACCM: FFFFFFFF, ACFC: 1, PFC: 0, MRU: 1492
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:47 2008 LCP sets local options: ACCM: 00000000, ACFC: 1, PFC: 0, MRU: 1492
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:46 2008 Stopping WAN Services
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:46 2008 WAN interface is down
[INFO] Fri Sep 05 21:26:46 2008 PPP network down


I also picked up a DIR-628 rev A1 FW 1.00 that I updated to 1.12. This one does not reboot or have these PPP issues and I'm sure I've done more than 100 connections on it.
Oddly enough on the Router Charts http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/chart,124/
it maxxed out at 32. I'd venture to say I've probably have gone 150+

Is there any software I can run locally that will show how many connections I have open? Free hopefully.

Anyways my point seems to be that the 625 option seems busted since it can't keep my connection open for some reason. Just to test I changed out to the modem and connection didn't drop. Switch back to the 625, kept dropping every 5 mins or so, not rebooting, so it seems really weird. On the 628 I used the exact same settings, QOS, port forwarding etc. The QOS seems quite addictive as I can change priorities (lower) on P2P ports and game fine. So my search continues for around $50 or so.

I think the 625 reviewed says C1 next to it on the charts, I presume that it was rev C1. Which is also a great idea to add next to each router in the charts what revision and firmware it was done under.

 

[tipstir]

Why did you get those two routers? Can you try the DIR-655, Costco have them cheaper, if you're a member otherwise Best Buy, Brands Mart USA shown have them and I know there in Miami I only been there once.

 

[jdabbs]

Sorry to hear you're having problems with the DIR-625.

Would you mind performing a little troubleshooting with the DIR-625? I'd like to know if it's a router or line failure (initiated disconnect). I figure if the router itself is having issues, if you connect the 628 to the modem, then cascade the 625 off of that, then the 625 will still forget the IP provided by the 628. If it works, then further investigation may be warranted.

It also wouldn't hurt to reset the config after the firmware update and manually rebuild it from scratch, if you haven't already done so.

 

[tipstir]

JJ those are slower routers.. 625 doesn't even support gig ports.

 

[eigna]

@tipstir: I'm looking for a cheap ~$50 router, looking for the best cheapest I can get that will support P2P, gaming, etc. w/o crashing/rebooting on me.
I also don't mind that they are not gigabit, I don't have a gigabit card anyways. Just looking for something cheap that will not crash under 200 connections. The 655 is $99 at Costco, Newegg has it for 94.99 and free shipping, it would be cheaper online, shop price and no tax. Yes it's cheaper than it's been for a while, even now at Bestbuy, Officemax etc it's $99, no rebates, gift cards etc. Which leads me to believe they're trying to sell all their inventory and that something new is coming in. My main goal was/is to try to stay near the $50 range.


Anyone know what products are planned to take over at 655 price point?


@jdabbs: How do I go about correctly cascading the 625 off the 628. Specifics please
Also I did reset both to factory defaults via the back reset button and within the Admin account after the firmware updates. So about the only thing left to do is do the cascade.

 

[tipstir]

Okay you want something that won't reboot on the LAN/WAN or crash and still give you better P2P downloads. Okay here you go:

You'll have to order this from Amazon as it is not sold at Best Buy anymore. Still supported on their site. It's has DLINK PCA board inside. Extremely FAST and also very cheap..

Dynex DX-E401 4-Port Ethernet Broadband Router - Router + 4-port switch
I've taken the one I've own apart to see what makes it tick. Marvel @ 150MHz CPU, 8MB of RAM, 4MB Flash buffer size 192KB for the switch ports 10/100.

Best downloads on P2P client was 1.63 mb/s. This cost anywhere from $8.99 to $39.99 now. Still available.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00078855W/?tag=snbforums-20

Remember this is a wired router, you'll need an wireless access point to use with it if you want... This was my prior setup with using this router.
If you need a wireless access point you can go to Office Depot get their brand. If you want or get one online. Still will come out cheaper.

Layout 1

 

[eigna]

My issue isn't with the speed of the download as much as it is from opening so many connections from having multiple items downloading. With that 8MB of RAM it won't get choked up on 150+ connections? Sucks the 8.99's are used. I'll give it some thought, after shipping the "new" come out to $25. Pity Best Buy doesn't carry them any more to test one. Is the 402 any good? A store a 30 mins away seems to have one on their site. I might take a "trip" that way in the coming week or so

 

[tipstir]

You won't have problems with connections I max out for download 1.63mb/s using my down loader software using java client. Just have to tweak the box and software and you'll be all set. The 402 is not the same. You could get and try it out compare the two. But the 401 is so quick! Plus it doesn't run hot! I still have mine I did pay $39 for it at Best Buy in 2006. 402 is a 2007 model. Make sure you download the latest firmware for 401 though it gives you WAN speed settings auto/10, 10/100, 100 Once I got that it was even better. If you need help let me know..?

 

[jdabbs]

@jdabbs: How do I go about correctly cascading the 625 off the 628. Specifics please
Also I did reset both to factory defaults via the back reset button and within the Admin account after the firmware updates. So about the only thing left to do is do the cascade.

Modem<>628WAN
628LAN<>625WAN
625LAN<>P2P client system

You don't have to do this, but changing the subnet of one of the routers (from 192.168.0.X to 1.X) would help in diagnosing the specific point of failure.

I've been looking around for people with the same problem you're describing; aside from Shaw (for which there was a later firmware update) your problem is fairly unique. It may be you've got a defective unit--I don't know. I'd doublecheck your configuration though; there are a few options that may impact the uptime of your DSL connection, like Max Idle Time and Reconnect Mode.

 

[eigna]

A friend sent me a this link to the Netgear WGR614NA. Any info on this and it's connections etc?

 

[tipstir]

They say it's good, but I didn't buy one so I can't comment on it.. You can try it and see if it works for you. The one a recommend will work also, quite faster than the basic DLINK wired router.

 

[Mike48236]

If you're feeling ambitious, and you're willing to spend some money, you could do what I did. When I upgraded my ISP to Fios (20/20 connection), I found that I was having all kinds of problems with throughput and router crashing due to the number of p2p connections. Frustrated, I bit the bullet and bought a Cisco 871 router (~$400). I had no direct prior experience with Cisco, so there was a lot to learn. However, there is an out of box configuration tool that will get you set up without knowing Cisco IOS (but still give yourself a few ours to setup). The router runs absolutely rock solid and I have never since had a slowdown with p2p. I get up to 2.5 MB/s download speeds. And my VOIP hasn't had a hickup, even while downloading - this is without Qos setup.

Now that it is up, it also gives me the opportunity to learn a little Cisco IOS and expand my knowledge. I'm now working on getting client/server VPN setup on the thing.

The computer I was doing p2p on also used to be connected via wireless - which in itself provided major issues. I'm renting and didn't want to run cable, so I bought a pair of Linksys PLE200's to do Ethernet over Powerline. I'm actually shocked at how well it works (no pun intended). I'm in an old house and was expecting all kinds of problems. Tomorrow is the last day for me to return the PLE200's and I saw that the PLK300 kit is now available at Best Buy, so I am going to throw caution to the wind and try them (even though they aren't even on the Linksys site yet!).

 

[valentin]

I use Linksys WRT54G v5. It works perfectly, I get up to 4MBytes /sec download speed on torrents, no problems at all.
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