Router reliability

[System Error Message]

Yeah but you are also comparing $3-7000 worth of new hardware plus configuration to . . . what? A $20 best buy special? Even your beloved mikrotik CCR line with a specialist paid to configure it is less than the $3000 or so needed for all true server grade parts with fully redundant hardware.

Entry level CCR is around $400 and the RAM can be replaced. Havent had any reliability issues with it and even the entry level CCRs have at least 2 sources of power and some have 3. I even modded my noisy CCR to be even quieter than the ERPRO and it only involved some fans and tape, looks the same from the outside. There is a CCR1009 that is passively cooled but im using the 36 core variant.

For routing use you can set aside $1000 for server grade x86 hardware for very good performance, reliability and features. Routers dont need GPUs unless you're using something like packetshader.

 

[sfx2000]

A quick comment - it's not just HW quality, it's the software side...

Consumer Grade Router/AP's - pretty much the focus for them at the moment is Features (VPN/FileShare/DNLA/WTF/etc) and Performance - Security and Stability take a secondary consideration...

And even then, build quality of the HW itself is questionable, see Asus RT-AC5300 and it's floppy antennae - and this is a $450-500USD device...

And it's no more secure or stable than a Linksys WRT-54GL - it's based on the same SW platform... as are most other consumer grade Router/AP's...

Security is a mess with them - advanced features are a mess with them, most folks struggle to figure out why it don't work?

So there's a few that see another path - maybe it's Ubiquity, MicroTik, roll your own with pfSense/Monowall/VyOS and OpenWRT/DD-WRT for devices that cannot run something a bit more advanced (OpenWRT is pretty awesome for those devices)...

And we've had enough...

I've broken out functionality within my network to best of class within each function at the moment - routing is pfSense/Intel, NAS is QNAP/Intel which also does some media sharing, and a decent 8 port managed switch - and my Wireless is taken care of by a couple of decent AP's (which by themselves are good enough, even though they have routing, I don't use it). I run two LAN's within my house, the trusted side, and the untrusted, so two subnet's, each on their own dedicated distribution - and the streams cross where I want them to - everything is safe/secure/stable...

You can take a Consumer Grade Router/AP - and put some third party firmware, or get shell/telnet/ssh, and do some creative things for routing, but at the end of the day, it's still a consumer grade router built to the lowest possible bill of materials...

 

[sfx2000]

Sorry for the rant, folks - but seriously - I've had enough of hearing about folks trying to run OpenVPN (tunnels no less), Fileshares, etc... it's the creeping features that vendors have put into these devices (Consumer Router/AP's) that have caused most of the comments here on SNB - I'm at a point where I've answered the same question 50 times, and I not going to any more - mostly because it don't matter...

Going to the user experience - the classic WRT54G UI is probably enough - but vendors want to make their products stand out, checking off feature boxes for things that basically shouldn't be on what is the firewall on your network, and... heck, I'll need a break now - let's just say I've lost patience with the vendors...

Now that I have that off my chest...

Stop putting crap on the shelves - Netgear, Linksys, D-Link, Asus - you're all about consumers - do something about it - put more focus on stability and security, and performance will follow in hand...

 

[Cloud200]

Sorry for the rant, folks - but seriously - I've had enough of hearing about folks trying to run OpenVPN (tunnels no less), Fileshares, etc... it's the creeping features that vendors have put into these devices (Consumer Router/AP's) that have caused most of the comments here on SNB - I'm at a point where I've answered the same question 50 times, and I not going to any more - mostly because it don't matter...

There is one thing that I have been seeing that is far more useful than you give it credit for . . .
VPN services built into the router itself.

For things like IPSec site to site or OpenVPN site to site it is orders of magnitude (as measured in time to troubleshoot) easier to have it running off the router than a pair of servers behind the router.

 

[sfx2000]

There is one thing that I have been seeing that is far more useful than you give it credit for . . .
VPN services built into the router itself.

For things like IPSec site to site or OpenVPN site to site it is orders of magnitude (as measured in time to troubleshoot) easier to have it running off the router than a pair of servers behind the router.

For site to site, or dial-in, it's a nice to have feature - but it's severely limited by a CPU that has less horsepower than a low-end smartphone - and most folks are not using it for the use-case scenarios you mention in any event..

If one is serious about site to site/office to office - likely not using OpenVPN, but something more reliable and robust like L2TP/IPSec on something more purpose built... and on a connection that's probably less asymmetric than a typical consumer broadband connection (e.g. 50 down/5 up).

 

[RMerlin]

For site to site, or dial-in, it's a nice to have feature - but it's severely limited by a CPU that has less horsepower than a low-end smartphone - and most folks are not using it for the use-case scenarios you mention in any event..

A recent survey indicated that the average Internet speed in Canada was a bit over 8 Mbps. Even an RT-N66U can handle that with OpenVPN without any problem.

VPN capabilities in routers absolutely makes sense. Bottleneck always end up being the upstream at both ends, so even your high speed 300-500 Mbps connections are still bottlenecked at 10-25 Mbps.

Symetrical FTTH is still a very limited market in North America.

 

[kamina]

this thread still going on. I remember the older days when establishments would use windows or linux servers as routers and firewalls as they were not only faster, power hungry and configurable but also because they dont freeze up and had ECC ram and RAID disks. If you want reliable, some inexpensive low profile computers/servers can be obtained that support ECC ram and will run for 24/7 but they do require quite a lot of skill to set up compared to your everyday consumer router. At least when such a server fails it is always the user's fault, not the manufacturer's.

We still do, and they happily handle about 10 gigabits/s of mostly small packages per datacenter when properly configured (with about 50 subnets and hundreds of rules). The thing is, dedicated routers that would do the same would cost ridiculous amounts.

I currently run an edgerouter at home, has worked perfectly. Before that I had mikrotik which also mostly worked fine (some issues with dhcp client). Ran many different consumer routers and all but apple and wrt54g had issues with stability (and wrt54g is pretty slow these days).

 

[sfx2000]

wrt54g is pretty slow these days

Oddly enough - one can still purchase direct from Linksys the WRT54GL...

 

[sfx2000]

Oddly enough - one can still purchase direct from Linksys the WRT54GL...

http://www.linksys.com/us/p/P-WRT54GL/

 

[kamina]

Seems to have the same CPU it had 10 years ago... Mine was probably almost 15 years old, was fine for ADSL but not really for fiber, and had 100mbit ports.

 

[TonyH]

Sorry for the rant, folks - but seriously - I've had enough of hearing about folks trying to run OpenVPN (tunnels no less), Fileshares, etc... it's the creeping features that vendors have put into these devices (Consumer Router/AP's) that have caused most of the comments here on SNB - I'm at a point where I've answered the same question 50 times, and I not going to any more - mostly because it don't matter...

Going to the user experience - the classic WRT54G UI is probably enough - but vendors want to make their products stand out, checking off feature boxes for things that basically shouldn't be on what is the firewall on your network, and... heck, I'll need a break now - let's just say I've lost patience with the vendors...

Now that I have that off my chest...

Stop putting crap on the shelves - Netgear, Linksys, D-Link, Asus - you're all about consumers - do something about it - put more focus on stability and security, and performance will follow in hand...

Human nature I guess. Having Champagne taste with beer budget or only wishing and dreaming, LOL! Wishing Honda Civic drive like a Porsche 911.... No matter what is done to a Civic, it'll never drive like a 911.

 

[sfx2000]

Human nature I guess. Having Champagne taste with beer budget or only wishing and dreaming, LOL! Wishing Honda Civic drive like a Porsche 911.... No matter what is done to a Civic, it'll never drive like a 911.

I look at consumer grade routers hitting the $400-500 USD range and shake my head... not to be mean spirited, but many of them are truly junk compared to other options that are even more affordable...

 

[TonyH]

I look at consumer grade routers hitting the $400-500 USD range and shake my head... not to be mean spirited, but many of them are truly junk compared to other options that are even more affordable...

I'll say. Again human nature I guess. Enterprise class stuffs look differeent and it involves some steep learning curve so not many folks are interested in them. Some surplus stuffs are still quite capable boxes.

 

[sfx2000]

I'll say. Again human nature I guess. Enterprise class stuffs look diferreent and it involves some steep learning curve so not many folks are not interested in them. Some surplus stuffs are still quite capable boxes.

pfSense is free - Netgate 2440 will set one back about $350 and change - and pfSense will walk most folks thru a basic setup on install...

Convert existing Router/AP to AP only, and one is right as rain...

Those $450 dollar consumer AC-5300 class Router/AP's are about $100 dollars worth of chips/plastics/labor - and yes, it's fairly profitable...

I've done the BOM teardowns - used to design these things as carrier CPE...

 

[sfx2000]

See here - not good news...

http://www.snbforums.com/threads/new-ac-router-which-will-be-supported-longest.31493/#post-250410