RT-AX86S vs RT-AX86U vs RT-AX86U Pro

[bones5050]

The Guest Network Pro feature is only available in the 3.0.0.6.x firmware. It is not available at this time in the Asus Merlin firmware. To use Guest Network Pro on a RT-AX86U Pro you would have to flash/install the latest Asus 9.0.0.6.102.4856 Beta firmware from 2023/03/21:
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/wireless/RT-AX86U Pro/FW_RT_AX86U_Pro_90061024856.zip?model=RT-AX86U Pro

Thank you!

 

[Slickone]

Welcome to the forums @indiehouse.

None of these models are worth spending money on today. Crippled hardware that will soon be obsolete and left behind.

You don't state your ISP speeds, but the best bang for the buck models today (running RMerlin firmware, of course) are the GT-AX6000 and the newer RT-AX88U Pro. For expected ISP speeds below ~600Mbps for the next few years, the RT-AX68U is also a good buy if it is available in your area. (The former two models suggested are capable of ~2.5Gbps speeds, of course. And are something to keep in mind if your local ISP may offer that in the near or not-too-distant future).

How are they crippled? You're saying the AX86S is crippled and nearly obsolete, but the AX68U isn't?

 

[L&LD]

The RT-AX86S is crippled. Hardware-wise.

The RT-AX68U is suitable and priced correctly (when on sale, particularly) for ISP speeds ~600Mbps or lower. With great coverage, excellent low latency (for its class), superior throughput for its price point, and proven dependability and reliability. It may only have 512MB of RAM, but when used as it should be, it doesn't need more. And although the CPU is only dual-core, it is still at the same 1.8GHz speed.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

The RT-AX86S has half the RAM of the original RT-AX86U, is only a 3x3:3 RF design for the 2.4GHz band, and two years later, is still only offering a single 2.5GbE Port. The much older RT-AX86U (orig) can be excused for that faux pas because of its age (but today, it has almost been 100% confirmed that it won't receive 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware going forward, so it too is not on any recommended list today).

Even if someone buys the RT-AX86S today because they believe 'that's all they need', they're simply ignoring the fact that for a few dollars more, they'll be able to get the superior RT-AX88U Pro which will not only benefit them during their time with it, but it will also be worth more when they may be looking to give it away, sell it, or re-use it when they eventually upgrade.

Yes, the RT-AX68U is not trying to be anything more than it is. But the RT-AX86S and RT-AX86U Pro are both well past their prime (even when they were originally introduced).

ASUS RT-AX88U with Asuswrt-Merlin firmware - Few queries

I have an ASUS RT-AX88U WiFi router. It doesnt currently support VLAN. So if I update the firmware with Asuswrt-Merlin one (RT-AX88U_3004_388.6_0) 1. Would I get an option to setup VLAN? 2. Would I be able to use AiProtection? 3. Would I be able to install OpenVPN clients? 4. What all...

www.snbforums.com

Having/not having the ISP speed (today) or having/not having the client devices (today) isn't a reason to buy inferior hardware.

Particularly when buying a superior option (RT-AX88U Pro) is just a few dollars more (and depending on sales at any specific time, even less than those crippled and obsolete models that should be avoided today).

 

[vlord]

The RT-AX86S is crippled. Hardware-wise.

The RT-AX68U is suitable and priced correctly (when on sale, particularly) for ISP speeds ~600Mbps or lower. With great coverage, excellent low latency (for its class), superior throughput for its price point, and proven dependability and reliability. It may only have 512MB of RAM, but when used as it should be, it doesn't need more. And although the CPU is only dual-core, it is still at the same 1.8GHz speed.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

The RT-AX86S has half the RAM of the original RT-AX86U, is only a 3x3:3 RF design for the 2.4GHz band, and two years later, is still only offering a single 2.5GbE Port. The much older RT-AX86U (orig) can be excused for that faux pas because of its age (but today, it has almost been 100% confirmed that it won't receive 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware going forward, so it too is not on any recommended list today).

Even if someone buys the RT-AX86S today because they believe 'that's all they need', they're simply ignoring the fact that for a few dollars more, they'll be able to get the superior RT-AX88U Pro which will not only benefit them during their time with it, but it will also be worth more when they may be looking to give it away, sell it, or re-use it when they eventually upgrade.

Yes, the RT-AX68U is not trying to be anything more than it is. But the RT-AX86S and RT-AX86U Pro are both well past their prime (even when they were originally introduced).

ASUS RT-AX88U with Asuswrt-Merlin firmware - Few queries

I have an ASUS RT-AX88U WiFi router. It doesnt currently support VLAN. So if I update the firmware with Asuswrt-Merlin one (RT-AX88U_3004_388.6_0) 1. Would I get an option to setup VLAN? 2. Would I be able to use AiProtection? 3. Would I be able to install OpenVPN clients? 4. What all...

www.snbforums.com

Having/not having the ISP speed (today) or having/not having the client devices (today) isn't a reason to buy inferior hardware.

Particularly when buying a superior option (RT-AX88U Pro) is just a few dollars more (and depending on sales at any specific time, even less than those crippled and obsolete models that should be avoided today).

The key difference is that the AX86s/u is 3x3 on the 2.4Ghz whereas the AX88U Pro is 4x4. I personally do not have any devices that are 4x4 on any band much less 2.4 and generally relegate IOT to 2.4Ghz. Half the RAM for the S model and 200Mhz less in CPU power for both are all dependent on the use case. If you aren’t running anything on top of out of the box settings with the Trend Micro turned off and no VPN server than either will have more than enough power for 1Gb internet from my own testing. Point taken, however, that they may be on the road to being discontinued and unsupported with firmware updates prior to the AX88U-Pro receiving the same treatment, but for me, I just can’t justify a family member on a fixed budget spending an extra $75-$150 more on a newer model that doesn’t provide any functional benefit. I know you aren’t a fan, but I’ve had really good luck picking up second hand AX86s/u off eBay for family members. For me that’s the sweet point in the second hand market. I agree that I would not buy either of these models NIB on the primary market unless they were significantly discounted.

 

[L&LD]

I don't treat anyone here as a 'family member'. Meaning, I feel they're here to get the most performance possible for the longest time for their investment. A few dollars more spent today is equivalent to spending a few hundred more in a few short years (with possibly worse future performance too, compared to what will be available and 'recommended' then).

I also don't recommend eBay or second-hand equipment (mostly because I can't vouch for the condition of the hardware anyone will receive).

So, I can see that if the total cost for a used router is $75 to $150, spending that much more for a decent current example is 'a lot' for some.

But that is not what I was recommending against (or for).

The price difference between new models is inconsequential. Particularly when on sale, when the much better model is even lower than the inferior option.

And the case for RF differences (vis-a-vis client device capabilities and current ISP speeds) isn't strong either.

More streams mean more throughput and lower latency at the same or further distance. (Almost) regardless of the client device used. Just physics/RF design facts.

While you may rely on luck to get good deals to family members from eBay, I have to be a little more particular to the customers I recommend equipment and design setups to.

BTW, what is 'NIB'?

 

[Piotrek]

but today, it has almost been 100% confirmed that it won't receive 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware going forward, so it too is not on any recommended list today

Which 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware features are you currently using?
Which 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware features do you think are essential in every home?

 

[L&LD]

None. Not available for the routers I use in my environment.

 

[vlord]

I don't treat anyone here as a 'family member'. Meaning, I feel they're here to get the most performance possible for the longest time for their investment. A few dollars more spent today is equivalent to spending a few hundred more in a few short years (with possibly worse future performance too, compared to what will be available and 'recommended' then).

I also don't recommend eBay or second-hand equipment (mostly because I can't vouch for the condition of the hardware anyone will receive).

So, I can see that if the total cost for a used router is $75 to $150, spending that much more for a decent current example is 'a lot' for some.

But that is not what I was recommending against (or for).

The price difference between new models is inconsequential. Particularly when on sale, when the much better model is even lower than the inferior option.

And the case for RF differences (vis-a-vis client device capabilities and current ISP speeds) isn't strong either.

More streams mean more throughput and lower latency at the same or further distance. (Almost) regardless of the client device used. Just physics/RF design facts.

While you may rely on luck to get good deals to family members from eBay, I have to be a little more particular to the customers I recommend equipment and design setups to.

BTW, what is 'NIB'?

NIB = New in Box. I guess you really don’t use eBay.

 

[Piotrek]

None. Not available for the routers I use in my environment.

Why do you recommend others to buy routers with software that is unnecessary and that you do not use?
Why do you recommend others to buy routers you don't use (GT-AX6000 and RT-AX88U Pro have 3.0.0.6.xxx firmware)?

 

[L&LD]

You're not reading my posts carefully or fully.

I'm not recommending something I don't use. But, I'm not blind to it's possible future usefulness.

Your assessment of unnecessary is not necessarily true.

I have the GT-AX6000 (as a node) and have installed and regularly use RT-AX88U Pro hardware.

 

[Piotrek]

You're not reading my posts carefully or fully.

I read it, but you are not consistent and factual in your statements.

I have the GT-AX6000 (as a node) and have installed and regularly use RT-AX88U Pro hardware.

ASUS GT-AX6000 Firmware version 3.0.0.6.102_21514 2023/06/20 https://rog.asus.com/networking/rog-rapture-gt-ax6000-model/helpdesk_bios/
ASUS RT-AX88U Pro Firmware version 3.0.0.6.102_21514 2023/06/20
ASUS RT-AX88U Pro Firmware version 3.0.0.6.102_33308 2024/01/12 https://www.asus.com/networking-iot...8u-pro/helpdesk_bios/?model2Name=RT-AX88U-Pro

None. Not available for the routers I use in my environment.

As you can see, these models have 3.0.0.6.102_xxx firmware from 20 June 2023...
Anticipating your answer, I will add that Pro are cool marketing names, but it will probably take a few years before it all starts to really work.
Additionally, almost no one needs these functions at home - you don't use them yourself, even though they have been available on your routers for a long time.

 

[L&LD]

Your lack of communication skills isn't a problem on my end.

Good luck.

 

[jerry6]

Your lack of communication skills isn't a problem on my end.

Good luck.

really , don't understand you are trying to help and all you get from this poster is grief . Give up and ignore

 

[vlord]

I've spent some time scouring FCC documentation for these models (and also the GT-AX6000) and updated the wikipedia page to reflect the components used per the teardown pics

Key tech differences:

1. AX86U has 4 vs 2 core CPU, same speed at 1.8GHz
2. AX86U includes an extra 2.5 Gbit ethernet port
3. AX86U has 2 USB 3.0 ports vs 1 3.0 and 1 2.0 port
4. AX86U has 1Gb Ram vs 512Mb
5. AX86U-Pro has a faster quad core processor vs the U and S

According to Asus's own testing, wifi (specifically DFS) is the same across the models. Check page 9 here

View attachment 50345

So rest assured, if you are looking at any of these models, unless you can utilize the added hardware, there is no benefit to stepping up to the U/Pro.

I recently discovered a teardown of the RT-AX86U Pro where it has been reported that the 5Ghz chip is, in fact, a BCM6715. Why is this significant? Well it just so happens that this is a wifi 6E chip that supports 6Ghz.

The BCM6715 is a 4x4 IEEE 802.11ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E MAC/PHY/radio system-on-a-chip (SoC) device. The BCM6715 device can operate in 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz bands selectively up to 160MHz channel bandwidth. Taking advantage of multi-user technologies such as OFDMA (downlink and uplink) and MU-MIMO (downlink and uplink), the BCM6715 delivers better throughput and reach to consumer devices in a home network. The device can be used in routers, residential gateways, Wi-Fi extenders and Wi-Fi mesh configurations.

Features​

• Supports 4 spatial streams of IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E
• Selectable 2.4GHz, 5 GHz, 6 GHz support
• Up to 160 MHz channel bandwidth
• 1024-QAM modulation rate in all bands
• Automated Frequency Coordination (AFC)
• Uplink and downlink OFDMA increases Wi-Fi capacity in congested environments
• Uplink and downlink MU-MIMO
• Supports LDPC in both TX and RX direction for increased wireless coverage
• ZeroWait DFS
• DPD external FEMs to lower system power consumption
• Full compliance with IEEE and Wi-Fi Alliance (WFA) Wi-Fi 6/6E specifications

Does this mean that Asus will enable these pro devices for 6Ghz? Unlikely, but it's interesting that they have that capability. I'm also not sure how this passed through FCC certification without a retest. I could not find any RT-AX86U Pro specific documentation on their site.

Also, as previously noted this teardown also shows the BCM4912 2.0 GHz quad core CPU as compared to the BCM4908 1.8 GHz quad core CPU

 

[OzarkEdge]

I recently discovered a teardown of the RT-AX86U Pro where it has been reported that the 5Ghz chip is, in fact, a BCM6715. Why is this significant? Well it just so happens that this is a wifi 6E chip that supports 6Ghz.

View attachment 58731

The BCM6715 is a 4x4 IEEE 802.11ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E MAC/PHY/radio system-on-a-chip (SoC) device. The BCM6715 device can operate in 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz bands selectively up to 160MHz channel bandwidth. Taking advantage of multi-user technologies such as OFDMA (downlink and uplink) and MU-MIMO (downlink and uplink), the BCM6715 delivers better throughput and reach to consumer devices in a home network. The device can be used in routers, residential gateways, Wi-Fi extenders and Wi-Fi mesh configurations.

Features​

• Supports 4 spatial streams of IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E
• Selectable 2.4GHz, 5 GHz, 6 GHz support
• Up to 160 MHz channel bandwidth
• 1024-QAM modulation rate in all bands
• Automated Frequency Coordination (AFC)
• Uplink and downlink OFDMA increases Wi-Fi capacity in congested environments
• Uplink and downlink MU-MIMO
• Supports LDPC in both TX and RX direction for increased wireless coverage
• ZeroWait DFS
• DPD external FEMs to lower system power consumption
• Full compliance with IEEE and Wi-Fi Alliance (WFA) Wi-Fi 6/6E specifications

Does this mean that Asus will enable these pro devices for 6Ghz? Unlikely, but it's interesting that they have that capability. I'm also not sure how this passed through FCC certification without a retest. I could not find any RT-AX86U Pro specific documentation on their site.

Also, as previously noted this teardown also shows the BCM4912 2.0 GHz quad core CPU as compared to the BCM4908 1.8 GHz quad core CPU

Maybe they can at least enable the U-NII-4 band to permit a third 5.0 160MHz option... my problem is that this equipment will be obsolete before I have clients and need for more throughput... better idea could be to enable the 6.0 band for dedicated wireless backhaul, a dual-band to tri-band fw upgrade. Not likely.

OE

 

[Tech9]

Does this mean that Asus will enable these pro devices for 6Ghz?

No. BCM6756 in entry-level RT-AX3000 V2 is also Wi-Fi 6E capable. For 6GHz band the product has to be FCC recertified and can't have removable antennas.

 

[vlord]

No. BCM6756 in entry-level RT-AX3000 V2 is also Wi-Fi 6E capable. For 6GHz band the product has to be FCC recertified and can't have removable antennas.

So if the BE88U comes to the US and is certified on 6GHz, it will have to have non-removable antennas? If so, the likelihood that it’s 6GHz capable in the US is going to be really small.

 

[L&LD]

It doesn't matter what capabilities the SoC has. It only matters what is enabled/certified.

Recertification has never happened (to enable huge upgrades like this), and it won't start now.

 

[Tech9]

So if the BE88U comes to the US and is certified on 6GHz

This is a dual-band router. I don't think it will come to the US with 2.4GHz + 6GHz bands. This is a region specific model and we may not see it at all around here.

 

[vlord]

I recently discovered a teardown of the RT-AX86U Pro where it has been reported that the 5Ghz chip is, in fact, a BCM6715. Why is this significant? Well it just so happens that this is a wifi 6E chip that supports 6Ghz.

View attachment 58731

The BCM6715 is a 4x4 IEEE 802.11ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E MAC/PHY/radio system-on-a-chip (SoC) device. The BCM6715 device can operate in 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz bands selectively up to 160MHz channel bandwidth. Taking advantage of multi-user technologies such as OFDMA (downlink and uplink) and MU-MIMO (downlink and uplink), the BCM6715 delivers better throughput and reach to consumer devices in a home network. The device can be used in routers, residential gateways, Wi-Fi extenders and Wi-Fi mesh configurations.

Features​

• Supports 4 spatial streams of IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E
• Selectable 2.4GHz, 5 GHz, 6 GHz support
• Up to 160 MHz channel bandwidth
• 1024-QAM modulation rate in all bands
• Automated Frequency Coordination (AFC)
• Uplink and downlink OFDMA increases Wi-Fi capacity in congested environments
• Uplink and downlink MU-MIMO
• Supports LDPC in both TX and RX direction for increased wireless coverage
• ZeroWait DFS
• DPD external FEMs to lower system power consumption
• Full compliance with IEEE and Wi-Fi Alliance (WFA) Wi-Fi 6/6E specifications

Does this mean that Asus will enable these pro devices for 6Ghz? Unlikely, but it's interesting that they have that capability. I'm also not sure how this passed through FCC certification without a retest. I could not find any RT-AX86U Pro specific documentation on their site.

Also, as previously noted this teardown also shows the BCM4912 2.0 GHz quad core CPU as compared to the BCM4908 1.8 GHz quad core CPU

@L&LD - I know you aren't a fan, but I was able to pick up a RT-AX86U Pro off eBay for $60 US. It was missing a power supply which was $10 US off Amazon. Really pleased.