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RT-AX86S vs RT-AX86U vs RT-AX86U Pro
- Thread starter vlord
- Start date
How are they crippled? You're saying the AX86S is crippled and nearly obsolete, but the AX68U isn't?
L&LD
Part of the Furniture
The RT-AX86S is crippled. Hardware-wise.
The RT-AX68U is suitable and priced correctly (when on sale, particularly) for ISP speeds ~600Mbps or lower. With great coverage, excellent low latency (for its class), superior throughput for its price point, and proven dependability and reliability. It may only have 512MB of RAM, but when used as it should be, it doesn't need more. And although the CPU is only dual-core, it is still at the same 1.8GHz speed.
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The RT-AX86S has half the RAM of the original RT-AX86U, is only a 3x3:3 RF design for the 2.4GHz band, and two years later, is still only offering a single 2.5GbE Port. The much older RT-AX86U (orig) can be excused for that faux pas because of its age (but today, it has almost been 100% confirmed that it won't receive 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware going forward, so it too is not on any recommended list today).
Even if someone buys the RT-AX86S today because they believe 'that's all they need', they're simply ignoring the fact that for a few dollars more, they'll be able to get the superior RT-AX88U Pro which will not only benefit them during their time with it, but it will also be worth more when they may be looking to give it away, sell it, or re-use it when they eventually upgrade.
Yes, the RT-AX68U is not trying to be anything more than it is. But the RT-AX86S and RT-AX86U Pro are both well past their prime (even when they were originally introduced).
www.snbforums.com
Having/not having the ISP speed (today) or having/not having the client devices (today) isn't a reason to buy inferior hardware.
Particularly when buying a superior option (RT-AX88U Pro) is just a few dollars more (and depending on sales at any specific time, even less than those crippled and obsolete models that should be avoided today).
The RT-AX68U is suitable and priced correctly (when on sale, particularly) for ISP speeds ~600Mbps or lower. With great coverage, excellent low latency (for its class), superior throughput for its price point, and proven dependability and reliability. It may only have 512MB of RAM, but when used as it should be, it doesn't need more. And although the CPU is only dual-core, it is still at the same 1.8GHz speed.
[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)
There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...
www.snbforums.com
The RT-AX86S has half the RAM of the original RT-AX86U, is only a 3x3:3 RF design for the 2.4GHz band, and two years later, is still only offering a single 2.5GbE Port. The much older RT-AX86U (orig) can be excused for that faux pas because of its age (but today, it has almost been 100% confirmed that it won't receive 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware going forward, so it too is not on any recommended list today).
Even if someone buys the RT-AX86S today because they believe 'that's all they need', they're simply ignoring the fact that for a few dollars more, they'll be able to get the superior RT-AX88U Pro which will not only benefit them during their time with it, but it will also be worth more when they may be looking to give it away, sell it, or re-use it when they eventually upgrade.
Yes, the RT-AX68U is not trying to be anything more than it is. But the RT-AX86S and RT-AX86U Pro are both well past their prime (even when they were originally introduced).
ASUS RT-AX88U with Asuswrt-Merlin firmware - Few queries
I have an ASUS RT-AX88U WiFi router. It doesnt currently support VLAN. So if I update the firmware with Asuswrt-Merlin one (RT-AX88U_3004_388.6_0) 1. Would I get an option to setup VLAN? 2. Would I be able to use AiProtection? 3. Would I be able to install OpenVPN clients? 4. What all...
www.snbforums.com
Having/not having the ISP speed (today) or having/not having the client devices (today) isn't a reason to buy inferior hardware.
Particularly when buying a superior option (RT-AX88U Pro) is just a few dollars more (and depending on sales at any specific time, even less than those crippled and obsolete models that should be avoided today).
vlord
Regular Contributor
The key difference is that the AX86s/u is 3x3 on the 2.4Ghz whereas the AX88U Pro is 4x4. I personally do not have any devices that are 4x4 on any band much less 2.4 and generally relegate IOT to 2.4Ghz. Half the RAM for the S model and 200Mhz less in CPU power for both are all dependent on the use case. If you aren’t running anything on top of out of the box settings with the Trend Micro turned off and no VPN server than either will have more than enough power for 1Gb internet from my own testing. Point taken, however, that they may be on the road to being discontinued and unsupported with firmware updates prior to the AX88U-Pro receiving the same treatment, but for me, I just can’t justify a family member on a fixed budget spending an extra $75-$150 more on a newer model that doesn’t provide any functional benefit. I know you aren’t a fan, but I’ve had really good luck picking up second hand AX86s/u off eBay for family members. For me that’s the sweet point in the second hand market. I agree that I would not buy either of these models NIB on the primary market unless they were significantly discounted.The RT-AX86S is crippled. Hardware-wise.
The RT-AX68U is suitable and priced correctly (when on sale, particularly) for ISP speeds ~600Mbps or lower. With great coverage, excellent low latency (for its class), superior throughput for its price point, and proven dependability and reliability. It may only have 512MB of RAM, but when used as it should be, it doesn't need more. And although the CPU is only dual-core, it is still at the same 1.8GHz speed.
[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)
There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...
The RT-AX86S has half the RAM of the original RT-AX86U, is only a 3x3:3 RF design for the 2.4GHz band, and two years later, is still only offering a single 2.5GbE Port. The much older RT-AX86U (orig) can be excused for that faux pas because of its age (but today, it has almost been 100% confirmed that it won't receive 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware going forward, so it too is not on any recommended list today).
Even if someone buys the RT-AX86S today because they believe 'that's all they need', they're simply ignoring the fact that for a few dollars more, they'll be able to get the superior RT-AX88U Pro which will not only benefit them during their time with it, but it will also be worth more when they may be looking to give it away, sell it, or re-use it when they eventually upgrade.
Yes, the RT-AX68U is not trying to be anything more than it is. But the RT-AX86S and RT-AX86U Pro are both well past their prime (even when they were originally introduced).
ASUS RT-AX88U with Asuswrt-Merlin firmware - Few queries
I have an ASUS RT-AX88U WiFi router. It doesnt currently support VLAN. So if I update the firmware with Asuswrt-Merlin one (RT-AX88U_3004_388.6_0) 1. Would I get an option to setup VLAN? 2. Would I be able to use AiProtection? 3. Would I be able to install OpenVPN clients? 4. What all...
Having/not having the ISP speed (today) or having/not having the client devices (today) isn't a reason to buy inferior hardware.
Particularly when buying a superior option (RT-AX88U Pro) is just a few dollars more (and depending on sales at any specific time, even less than those crippled and obsolete models that should be avoided today).
L&LD
Part of the Furniture
I don't treat anyone here as a 'family member'. Meaning, I feel they're here to get the most performance possible for the longest time for their investment. A few dollars more spent today is equivalent to spending a few hundred more in a few short years (with possibly worse future performance too, compared to what will be available and 'recommended' then).
I also don't recommend eBay or second-hand equipment (mostly because I can't vouch for the condition of the hardware anyone will receive).
So, I can see that if the total cost for a used router is $75 to $150, spending that much more for a decent current example is 'a lot' for some.
But that is not what I was recommending against (or for).
The price difference between new models is inconsequential. Particularly when on sale, when the much better model is even lower than the inferior option.
And the case for RF differences (vis-a-vis client device capabilities and current ISP speeds) isn't strong either.
More streams mean more throughput and lower latency at the same or further distance. (Almost) regardless of the client device used. Just physics/RF design facts.
While you may rely on luck to get good deals to family members from eBay, I have to be a little more particular to the customers I recommend equipment and design setups to.
BTW, what is 'NIB'?
I also don't recommend eBay or second-hand equipment (mostly because I can't vouch for the condition of the hardware anyone will receive).
So, I can see that if the total cost for a used router is $75 to $150, spending that much more for a decent current example is 'a lot' for some.
But that is not what I was recommending against (or for).
The price difference between new models is inconsequential. Particularly when on sale, when the much better model is even lower than the inferior option.
And the case for RF differences (vis-a-vis client device capabilities and current ISP speeds) isn't strong either.
More streams mean more throughput and lower latency at the same or further distance. (Almost) regardless of the client device used. Just physics/RF design facts.
While you may rely on luck to get good deals to family members from eBay, I have to be a little more particular to the customers I recommend equipment and design setups to.
BTW, what is 'NIB'?
Which 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware features are you currently using?
Which 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware features do you think are essential in every home?
vlord
Regular Contributor
I don't treat anyone here as a 'family member'. Meaning, I feel they're here to get the most performance possible for the longest time for their investment. A few dollars more spent today is equivalent to spending a few hundred more in a few short years (with possibly worse future performance too, compared to what will be available and 'recommended' then).
I also don't recommend eBay or second-hand equipment (mostly because I can't vouch for the condition of the hardware anyone will receive).
So, I can see that if the total cost for a used router is $75 to $150, spending that much more for a decent current example is 'a lot' for some.
But that is not what I was recommending against (or for).
The price difference between new models is inconsequential. Particularly when on sale, when the much better model is even lower than the inferior option.
And the case for RF differences (vis-a-vis client device capabilities and current ISP speeds) isn't strong either.
More streams mean more throughput and lower latency at the same or further distance. (Almost) regardless of the client device used. Just physics/RF design facts.
While you may rely on luck to get good deals to family members from eBay, I have to be a little more particular to the customers I recommend equipment and design setups to.
BTW, what is 'NIB'?
NIB = New in Box. I guess you really don’t use eBay.
Why do you recommend others to buy routers with software that is unnecessary and that you do not use?
Why do you recommend others to buy routers you don't use (GT-AX6000 and RT-AX88U Pro have 3.0.0.6.xxx firmware)?
L&LD
Part of the Furniture
You're not reading my posts carefully or fully.
I'm not recommending something I don't use. But, I'm not blind to it's possible future usefulness.
Your assessment of unnecessary is not necessarily true.
I have the GT-AX6000 (as a node) and have installed and regularly use RT-AX88U Pro hardware.
I'm not recommending something I don't use. But, I'm not blind to it's possible future usefulness.
Your assessment of unnecessary is not necessarily true.
I have the GT-AX6000 (as a node) and have installed and regularly use RT-AX88U Pro hardware.
I read it, but you are not consistent and factual in your statements.
ASUS GT-AX6000 Firmware version 3.0.0.6.102_21514 2023/06/20 https://rog.asus.com/networking/rog-rapture-gt-ax6000-model/helpdesk_bios/
ASUS RT-AX88U Pro Firmware version 3.0.0.6.102_21514 2023/06/20
ASUS RT-AX88U Pro Firmware version 3.0.0.6.102_33308 2024/01/12 https://www.asus.com/networking-iot...8u-pro/helpdesk_bios/?model2Name=RT-AX88U-Pro
As you can see, these models have 3.0.0.6.102_xxx firmware from 20 June 2023...
Anticipating your answer, I will add that Pro are cool marketing names, but it will probably take a few years before it all starts to really work.
Additionally, almost no one needs these functions at home - you don't use them yourself, even though they have been available on your routers for a long time.
jerry6
Very Senior Member
really , don't understand you are trying to help and all you get from this poster is grief . Give up and ignore
vlord
Regular Contributor
I recently discovered a teardown of the RT-AX86U Pro where it has been reported that the 5Ghz chip is, in fact, a BCM6715. Why is this significant? Well it just so happens that this is a wifi 6E chip that supports 6Ghz.
The BCM6715 is a 4x4 IEEE 802.11ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E MAC/PHY/radio system-on-a-chip (SoC) device. The BCM6715 device can operate in 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz bands selectively up to 160MHz channel bandwidth. Taking advantage of multi-user technologies such as OFDMA (downlink and uplink) and MU-MIMO (downlink and uplink), the BCM6715 delivers better throughput and reach to consumer devices in a home network. The device can be used in routers, residential gateways, Wi-Fi extenders and Wi-Fi mesh configurations.
Features
- Supports 4 spatial streams of IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ax release 2 Wi-Fi 6/6E
- Selectable 2.4GHz, 5 GHz, 6 GHz support
- Up to 160 MHz channel bandwidth
- 1024-QAM modulation rate in all bands
- Automated Frequency Coordination (AFC)
- Uplink and downlink OFDMA increases Wi-Fi capacity in congested environments
- Uplink and downlink MU-MIMO
- Supports LDPC in both TX and RX direction for increased wireless coverage
- ZeroWait DFS
- DPD external FEMs to lower system power consumption
- Full compliance with IEEE and Wi-Fi Alliance (WFA) Wi-Fi 6/6E specifications
Does this mean that Asus will enable these pro devices for 6Ghz? Unlikely, but it's interesting that they have that capability. I'm also not sure how this passed through FCC certification without a retest. I could not find any RT-AX86U Pro specific documentation on their site.
Also, as previously noted this teardown also shows the BCM4912 2.0 GHz quad core CPU as compared to the BCM4908 1.8 GHz quad core CPU
OzarkEdge
Part of the Furniture
Maybe they can at least enable the U-NII-4 band to permit a third 5.0 160MHz option... my problem is that this equipment will be obsolete before I have clients and need for more throughput... better idea could be to enable the 6.0 band for dedicated wireless backhaul, a dual-band to tri-band fw upgrade. Not likely.
OE
Tech9
Part of the Furniture
No. BCM6756 in entry-level RT-AX3000 V2 is also Wi-Fi 6E capable. For 6GHz band the product has to be FCC recertified and can't have removable antennas.
vlord
Regular Contributor
So if the BE88U comes to the US and is certified on 6GHz, it will have to have non-removable antennas? If so, the likelihood that it’s 6GHz capable in the US is going to be really small.
Tech9
Part of the Furniture
This is a dual-band router. I don't think it will come to the US with 2.4GHz + 6GHz bands. This is a region specific model and we may not see it at all around here.
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