Small Network Packet Loss

[chocrates]

Hey All,

Hope this is the right spot for this.

Problem​

I am experiencing packet loss on my small wireless network.
Symptoms include Discord video dropping quality to minimum, Youtube buffering quite a bit, Zoom sporadically "freezing".
The last one is particularly frustrating when I am leading meetings for work. It's gotten to the point that if my wife or I have something important to do on the network (proctored exam or large zoom class we are leading) the other will basically not use the internet as much as possible for fear of using up all the bandwidth.

Network Layout​

WAN -> 1000mbps ATT Modem/Router -> ASUS RT-AX88U AX6000 -> 6 - 8 Devices between 2 people

Modem is set to IP Passthrough to Asus Router

Modem speed check consistently gets 1Gbps but router is never above 200 mbps

Any idea how I can debug this?

 

[eibgrad]

Is it possible to try these same devices w/ a wired connection? If only to confirm it is specifically a wireless issue and not something upstream, like the ISP or other service provider.

Whenever you have a problem like this, it's best to try and see if you can isolate the problem and not just assume it's wireless. You have two routers there, both minimally wired, and so I say use them for comparison purposes. Nothing worse than wasting your time debugging wireless when it's something else entirely.

 

[chocrates]

Is it possible to try these same devices w/ a wired connection? If only to confirm it is specifically a wireless issue and not something upstream, like the ISP or other service provider.

Whenever you have a problem like this, it's best to try and see if you can isolate the problem and not just assume it's wireless. You have two routers there, both minimally wired, and so I say use them for comparison purposes. Nothing worse than wasting your time debugging wireless when it's something else entirely.

Speed test is largely the same between wired and wireless. 2.4ghz I think is about half of the speed as 5ghz.
I can't really test the Zoom issues since they happen when i am in meetings but I can probably test discord, so I will give that a shot tonight if I can.

 

[thiggins]

Your answer is a bit unclear. What speeds do you measure using an Ethernet connection?

What are your router bandwidth and channel settings? What band are your devices using? Are you using a single SSID, i.e. smart connect?

I suggest that you disable Smart Connect and use separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5 GHz. Set your 2.4 GHz channel bandwidth to 20 MHz, set your 5 GHz bandwidth to 20/40/80. Disable 160 MHz channels if it's enabled.

Make sure your devices connect to 5 GHz.

 

[chocrates]

Your answer is a bit unclear. What speeds do you measure using an Ethernet connection?

What are your router bandwidth and channel settings? What band are your devices using? Are you using a single SSID, i.e. smart connect?

I suggest that you disable Smart Connect and use separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5 GHz. Set your 2.4 GHz channel bandwidth to 20 MHz, set your 5 GHz bandwidth to 20/40/80. Disable 160 MHz channels if it's enabled.

Make sure your devices connect to 5 GHz.

Curious, what does setting 2.4 to 20Mhz do?

Speed test results from one machine. ATT's website is not loading for me for some reason so I can't run their speed test, but again its never been anything but 1Gbps

Network	Speed (mbps)
2.4 Ghz no load	110
5ghz no load	460
2.4ghz no load 10 am	93
5ghz no load 10 am	330
Ethernet no load 10am	780

Above results were after I made the suggested changes from above.
Right on cue as the network speeds dropped presumably as people in the area started to get on meetings, my Zoom meetings started to stutter and freeze and get the unstable network message.
Based on these tests I kind of think that ATT is the culprit as load on their network picks up?

 

[thiggins]

There are only three non-overlapping 20 MHz wide channels in 2.4 GHz. Setting the channel width to 20 avoids problems with overlap from wider channels. APs/routers are supposed to fall back to 20 MHz operation if they detect activity in the second 20 MHz channel, but many don't or have settings that allow overriding this feature.

If speed drops during busy periods, I agree this points to the ISP. Is your Gigabit service fiber or cable based?

 

[chocrates]

Interestingly, we have had similar issues since we got the service, but they seemed to pick up when I turned IP Passthrough on and hooked up my own router.
I believe it is fiber based. At least fiber to the apartment, and then the modem is hooked up to the wall via copper.

 

[thiggins]

I believe it is fiber based.

That's interesting. Cable modem service is known for lower throughput when a node gets busy. Maybe it's the same for fiber...

 

[SilentStorm]

That's interesting. Cable modem service is known for lower throughput when a node gets busy. Maybe it's the same for fiber...

It's likely Fibre to the Network, and then switches to a coax cable.

 

[chocrates]

I can confirm the zoom issues seem to be unrelated to the Wifi setup itself.
I had multiple freezes and disconnects during a meeting while I was connected to the router via Ethernet.

After zoom reconnected I would run a speed test and get around 800 Mbps.
I guess I am going to call AT&T about it, though would there really be anything they could do?

 

[SilentStorm]

I can confirm the zoom issues seem to be unrelated to the Wifi setup itself.
I had multiple freezes and disconnects during a meeting while I was connected to the router via Ethernet.

After zoom reconnected I would run a speed test and get around 800 Mbps.
I guess I am going to call AT&T about it, though would there really be anything they could do?

My advice would be to run a pingplotter test to see exactly where your packet loss is happening, whether it's within your network or on your end.

 

[chocrates]

My advice would be to run a pingplotter test to see exactly where your packet loss is happening, whether it's within your network or on your end.

I really don't know what I am doing with PingPlotter, but I found a small guide on testing Zoom.

I dropped a couple packets at first on my Router/Modem and then it was fine for a while, then towards the end it was dropping a ton of packets.

 

[SilentStorm]

I really don't know what I am doing with PingPlotter, but I found a small guide on testing Zoom.

I dropped a couple packets at first on my Router/Modem and then it was fine for a while, then towards the end it was dropping a ton of packets.

So by the looks of it, the packet loss is happening on your end, according to PingPlotter at least. It's not happening within the network (which is a good thing, as it means it can be resolved from your end.)

Now I'm no professional, so others can feel free to chime in to help.

If it was me, I'd start off by swapping Ethernet cables that are connected to your router. It could be something as simple as that.

 

[chocrates]

So by the looks of it, the packet loss is happening on your end, according to PingPlotter at least. It's not happening within the network (which is a good thing, as it means it can be resolved from your end.)

Now I'm no professional, so others can feel free to chime in to help.

If it was me, I'd start off by swapping Ethernet cables that are connected to your router. It could be something as simple as that.

Yeah it definitely looks like it. I will do that and re-test. It is very strange that other than a small hiccup initially it was fine for like 6 minutes before dropping a ton.

 

[SilentStorm]

Yeah it definitely looks like it. I will do that and re-test. It is very strange that other than a small hiccup initially it was fine for like 6 minutes before dropping a ton.

Yeah, that's why I recommend starting with just swapping Ethernet cables. Try different Ethernet cables when plugging into the router and when plugging into a computer.

 

[degrub]

Maybe the router is getting too hot ?
Have you tried putting the att router back in routing mode and tried the zoom test straight off the att router ?

double nat may not hurt.

 

[SilentStorm]

Maybe the router is getting too hot ?
Have you tried putting the att router back in routing mode and tried the zoom test straight off the att router ?

double nat may not hurt.

Believe there is a way to monitor the temperatures. Somewhere under the Systems tab, so that might one to try and well.

 

[chocrates]

Maybe the router is getting too hot ?
Have you tried putting the att router back in routing mode and tried the zoom test straight off the att router ?

double nat may not hurt.

I originally had double nat. It was mostly fine but Stadia controller would desync every 10 minutes or so, which finally became so infuriating that I looked for solutions.
The routing capability on the ATT router ostensibly was to blame.

 

[degrub]

you can turn the wireless off in the ATT router and use yours instead for the Stadia if that solved it's issue.
But for the zoom meeting issues, hardwiring into the att router might solve the issue ?

 

[chocrates]

you can turn the wireless off in the ATT router and use yours instead for the Stadia if that solved it's issue.
But for the zoom meeting issues, hardwiring into the att router might solve the issue ?

Yeah I may have to turn routing/NAT back on the ATT Modem to fix Zoom. Anytime the ATT modem is routing though is when I had other issues. Not getting fired due to my inability to contribute to meetings though is probably more important .
I will see if I can address the packet loss via new ethernet cables today.