Starting to despair

[TheLyppardMan]

At this point you've narrowed down that it is not the router, and it seems it is not a specific wifi device as more than 1 have the issue.

So you can effectively give up on trying to tweak settings and assume that you have major interference in your house and 2.4 is not going to be reliable.

Given how severe and variable it is though, I would personally want to know what it is and whether it is potentially health impacting.

Well, one of the things that is influencing the Wi-Fi is definitely the microwave oven in the adjacent kitchen (see where I have marked on the graph below), but that wouldn't account for why the interference I was getting previously could sometimes last for several hours.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

If it has an ethernet port, you can plug it in and it will be available to all wireless users still. If not you can run it USB to the router and use the print server, or install a wireless 5ghz print server next to the printer with USB.

Or relocate the printer closer to the router so you can cable it up easier.

It only has a USB option. Also, I wouldn't be able to relocate the printer as the router is wall-mounted at the top of the stairs and we only have a bathroom and bedrooms on that floor. The 5GHz print server might be an option though if this problem keeps recurring for more than a minute or two when the microwave is in use. I'll have to do some research to see what is available, so thank you for that suggestion.

 

[eightiescalling]

It only has a USB option. Also, I wouldn't be able to relocate the printer as the router is wall-mounted at the top of the stairs and we only have a bathroom and bedrooms on that floor. The 5GHz print server might be an option though if this problem keeps recurring for more than a minute or two when the microwave is in use. I'll have to do some research to see what is available, so thank you for that suggestion.

If you have any spare Raspberry Pis kicking around there are countless tutorials/walkthroughs on using them to turn a USB printer to a wireless network printer.

 

[drinkingbird]

Well, one of the things that is influencing the Wi-Fi is definitely the microwave oven in the adjacent kitchen (see where I have marked on the graph below), but that wouldn't account for why the interference I was getting previously could sometimes last for several hours.

Many many many things will have some impact on 2.4ghz, that is normal for a microwave, cordless phone, bluetooth, etc to show some impact when you're doing a graph like that, most people won't notice it.

What you're seeing is something else entirely. One of your neighbors found an old xray tube and hooked it up thinking it was a pretty light or fancy stereo system component perhaps.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

I don't know why some manufacturers are still making items that can only connect to the 2.4 GHz band. TomTom Sat Navs are a prime example and I have a feeling that many Canon printers still only operate on 2.4 GHz, but I'll send them an enquiry to find out more.

 

[KrypteX]

One of your neighbors found an old xray tube and hooked it up thinking it was a pretty light or fancy stereo system component perhaps.

^ This ^

 

[TheLyppardMan]

I phoned Canon UK Support today, but I wasn't too impressed. The agent, who was quite hard to understand, kept offering to help me set up my printer and I had to keep repeating myself that there was nothing wrong with the printer or my ISP's service and that the problem was interference on my 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi band. Eventually, I managed to persuade the agent to e-mail me a list of current Canon printers that have 5.0 GHz capability. I did receive an email a few minutes later, but some of the items on the list were no longer available or out of stock. I'll just wait and see for now as to how the Wi-Fi performs, but if it becomes a real pain then I'll have reconsider my options. At least now that I am retired, I don't have to do so much printing, but my daughter does have to print stuff for her university studies sometimes, so I'll need to keep that in mind.

 

[Tech9]

keep repeating myself that there was nothing wrong with the printer or my ISP's service and that the problem was interference on my 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi

Canon won't help you with local Wi-Fi issues. You can help yourself by getting a cheap dual-band home router with Repeater or Bridge mode and wire the printer to it or connect it to unique dedicated to the printer only 2.4GHz Wi-Fi very close to it. This router will communicate with your main router on 5GHz band. An old used RT-AC68U type router off eBay can do this for you cheaper than replacing the printer. This will increase SNR and make your printer at least work reliably. For other 2.4GHz devices like IoTs etc. you may need a dedicated business class AP dealing with interreference better.

 

[lindros2]

I don't know why some manufacturers are still making items that can only connect to the 2.4 GHz band. TomTom Sat Navs are a prime example and I have a feeling that many Canon printers still only operate on 2.4 GHz, but I'll send them an enquiry to find out more.

... and garage door openers, thermostats, smart plugs...

my guess is power (draw), cost, fit, and/or internal interference.

 

[drinkingbird]

... and garage door openers, thermostats, smart plugs...

my guess is power (draw), cost, fit, and/or internal interference.

In the IOT space range is a big factor but obviously cost is lower too and considering IOT stuff is dirt cheap, I'm sure that's also a major factor too. Throughput requirements are minimal so no reason for them to do 5Ghz.

Some of the stuff that uses hubs actually runs 800mhz-900mhz LFR between devices and hub to get better range.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

In my case, I only have a few devices, other than my Canon TS8250 multifunction printer, that can only connect to 2.4 GHz. These are (as named in my router's GUI):

I'm not too bothered about the Kindle, the TV or the Honeywell Evohome radiator thermostats controller, but the other devices have varying degrees of importance.

 

[drinkingbird]

In my case, I only have a few devices, other than my Canon TS8250 multifunction printer, that can only connect to 2.4 GHz. These are (as named in my router's GUI):

View attachment 52366

I'm not too bothered about the Kindle, the TV or the Honeywell Evohome radiator thermostats controller, but the other devices have varying degrees of importance.

Set your router to auto channel, schedule reboots (use a smart plug or wall timer to do it multiple times per day if needed, or a script to bounce wireless every x hours) and hope for the best.

Given that the interference seems to change frequency range and is constant for certain periods during the day, I suspect a neighbor maybe has a lousy Bluetooth streaming device they're using or something like that. Bluetooth also uses different channels and picks different ones each time you connect.

I don't remember if you have already, but try both Bluetooth coexistence settings and see if either helps. Also move the router away from anything that could cause RF interference, which is basically anything electronic, but especially anything with wireless communication (not just wifi, anything wireless).

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Set your router to auto channel, schedule reboots (use a smart plug or wall timer to do it multiple times per day if needed, or a script to bounce wireless every x hours) and hope for the best.

Auto channel didn't work for me, so I have manually set the router to use channel 6 and so far, that has been OK.

Given that the interference seems to change frequency range and is constant for certain periods during the day, I suspect a neighbor maybe has a lousy Bluetooth streaming device they're using or something like that. Bluetooth also uses different channels and picks different ones each time you connect.

I don't remember if you have already, but try both Bluetooth coexistence settings and see if either helps. Also move the router away from anything that could cause RF interference, which is basically anything electronic, but especially anything with wireless communication (not just wifi, anything wireless).

I don't know what you mean by "Bluetooth coexistence settings", but I can say that apart from my VOIP phone and base (which I have already eliminated as being a problem) there is no other electronic equipment close to the router* (it's wall-mounted at the top of the stairs), but I do have a spare 15-metres ethernet cable, so if I had another prolonged incident, I could see if there were any difference from the current position to a different location.

*There are some electrical devices in the loft, above the router, such as the UPS that supplies the router and phone base station, via their respective AC power units. There's also a power unit that trickle charges a 12-volt car battery that is used to power emergency lighting (in the event of an interruption to the household's 230-volt main power supply).

 

[CriticJay]

Ive had a similar experience with my old ac86u, finally the 2.4GHz wifi just dissappeared. I ordered a new router, a ax86u pro and guess what: same thing. Strangely enough I put my old router next to my media converter when I setup my new router and the 2.4GHz worked again.

After an evening of janking cables I could conclude that my rpi nas (located 5cm from my router) created disturbance. Move it and it was gone.

I'm late to this thread, but when I saw the bolded comment above - I thought I'd share the following article, which helps illustrate why wifi devices shouldn't be too close together:

WN Blog 022 – Distance Between 802.11 Radios – How Close Is Too Close? - WiFi Ninjas - Podcasts & Blogs

We have recently come across few production networks, where distance between two APs or APs and a client stations was much closer than I was comfortable with. Natural reaction was to suggest moving radios at least few metres apart. But why exactly? What happens when two or more transmitting...

wifininjas.net

 

[ZebMcKayhan]

I'm late to this thread, but when I saw the bolded comment above - I thought I'd share the following article, which helps illustrate why wifi devices shouldn't be too close together:

WN Blog 022 – Distance Between 802.11 Radios – How Close Is Too Close? - WiFi Ninjas - Podcasts & Blogs

We have recently come across few production networks, where distance between two APs or APs and a client stations was much closer than I was comfortable with. Natural reaction was to suggest moving radios at least few metres apart. But why exactly? What happens when two or more transmitting...

wifininjas.net

Thanks for sharing! Altough my particular problem was not related to wifi devices being to close to each other, it was my hand soldered usb3 internal cables in my nas that was disturbing my wifi as it was not perfect and only 40-50mm from the router antennas. My rpi nas had wifi off as it was connected by cable to the router.

 

[drinkingbird]

Auto channel didn't work for me, so I have manually set the router to use channel 6 and so far, that has been OK.

You keep saying that, but then whatever channel that was ok that particular day is no longer ok, that's the whole problem. Auto channel did work for you, just as well as any of the static channels you've used, it works, then it doesn't, hence having it reboot and rescan periodically. Unless you want to go through this exercise of finding the best channel every day or a couple times a day.

I don't know what you mean by "Bluetooth coexistence settings", but I can say that apart from my VOIP phone and base (which I have already eliminated as being a problem) there is no other electronic equipment close to the router* (it's wall-mounted at the top of the stairs), but I do have a spare 15-metres ethernet cable, so if I had another prolonged incident, I could see if there were any difference from the current position to a different location.

*There are some electrical devices in the loft, above the router, such as the UPS that supplies the router and phone base station, via their respective AC power units. There's also a power unit that trickle charges a 12-volt car battery that is used to power emergency lighting (in the event of an interruption to the household's 230-volt main power supply).

The router has bluetooth coexistence under wireless advanced settings for 2.4ghz. You can try both settings and see if it helps, probably won't, never know.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

You keep saying that, but then whatever channel that was ok that particular day is no longer ok, that's the whole problem. Auto channel did work for you, just as well as any of the static channels you've used, it works, then it doesn't, hence having it reboot and rescan periodically. Unless you want to go through this exercise of finding the best channel every day or a couple times a day.

Rebooting every day would be a pain as it often stops my VOIP base station from reconnecting.

The router has bluetooth coexistence under wireless advanced settings for 2.4ghz. You can try both settings and see if it helps, probably won't, never know.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

Your issue is not neighboring wifi. It is interference that those apps will not show.

You need to start thinking about what happens each time your performance suffers and try to find something consistent, but that can be virtually near impossible especially with neighbors in the same building. Unless you want to invest in a spectrum analyzer with yagi or dish antenna and walk around trying to find the point source of the noise, you may have to settle for setting the router to auto and scheduling at least one daily reboot, or a script to bounce the 2.4 radio so it rescans a couple times a day.

If there were a script that did a similar job to ChkWAN, but for monitoring the W-Fi channels instead, that would be great. Not being a computer programmer, I don't even know if that would be possible. Would it?

Your wife may not be far off, there are plenty of poorly wired electrical systems that can put off EMI or even RFI especially when under high load. Maybe your neighbors put on their AC and the transformer outside starts blasting noise, who knows.

While tweaking settings can sometimes help, I think you've pretty much already tried them all.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

You keep saying that, but then whatever channel that was ok that particular day is no longer ok, that's the whole problem. Auto channel did work for you, just as well as any of the static channels you've used, it works, then it doesn't, hence having it reboot and rescan periodically. Unless you want to go through this exercise of finding the best channel every day or a couple times a day.



The router has bluetooth coexistence under wireless advanced settings for 2.4ghz. You can try both settings and see if it helps, probably won't, never know.

I've just switched it on, so we'll see what happens. I'll report back when I know more.

 

[TheLyppardMan]

The 2.4 GHz band seems much more stable at the moment. I'm not sure whether that is because of the channel it is currently on (7) or whether it is because I have enabled Bluetooth Coexistence as suggested or whether it is due to some other unknown reason.