TUF-AX3000 V2 coming to a store near you, maybe

[JWoo]

The soon to hit the market Asus TUF-AX3000 V2 looks like a winner. See tear down video:

The specs look solid: 2.5Gbps WAN port, 1.7GHz BCM6756 quad-core processor and BCM53134 switch. Wireless duties handled by BCM6756 SoC. This router seems a little future-proof with good specs.

My goodness, Asus has a lot of AX models out now.

 

[L&LD]

I still don't think this model is worth considering.

Not with a mere 2x2:2 connection possible and how much throughput and range are positively affected by 3x3:3 and even better, 4x4:4 transmit/receive antennae/streams from the better models.

 

[JWoo]

I still don't think this model is worth considering.

Not with a mere 2x2:2 connection possible and how much throughput and range are positively affected by 3x3:3 and even better, 4x4:4 transmit/receive antennae/streams from the better models.

Most of our IoT devices are only 1 or 2 streams and cannot benefit from 4x4 or 3x3 routers. Even late model laptops are typically just 2x2. As an example, even the highest end Apple laptops are 2x2 and only 80MHz (not even using 160MHz channel width). The Sony PS5 has the same specs as Apple's best laptops; 2x2.

With the current RT-AX3000 platform, 2.4GHz is 2X2 and the 5GHz band is actually 2T4R due to software control. Not sure if Asus will do the same and have 2T4R on the TUF-AX3000 V2.

From older post:

Tim: Why use a four stream device if only two streams are used?
ASUS: Recently we will launch another new model RT-AX82U which support 2.4GHz 2X2 & 5GHz 4X4.
RT-AX58U/RT-AX3000/RT-AX82U these three models share the same layout design, same chipset platform so that we can put them in the same FCC certification report.

Tim: Are four streams being used for receive and 2 streams for transmit for 5 GHz?
ASUS: Yes. For RT-AX58U and RT-AX3000, the 5GHz band become 2T4R due to software control

 

[L&LD]

Yet, they do benefit.

Faster connections at further distances.

Lower latency.

Higher throughput.

The benefits are real.

 

[JWoo]

Yet, they do benefit.

Faster connections at further distances.

Lower latency.

Higher throughput.

The benefits are real.

Please explain how that would work. If I have a laptop that is 2x2 MIMO or an Amazon Fire Stick that is 2x2 MIMO, how does a 3x3 or 4x4 router help me?

Update, some of the Asus routers are MU-MIMO, meaning that instead of the devices all connecting to the 1st antenna, the devices could connect to different antennae. So a modest benefit in one use case for having a 3x3 or 4x4 router with 2x2 or single antenna devices.

 

[Tech9]

In 802.11ax the number of streams for MU-MIMO is not that important. It relies more on OFDMA and it can work with 2x2 radios. In theory 4x4 radios have better range, but only if the same radio SoC and amplifiers are compared. Some 2x2 radio routers may have better range than others with 4x4 radio.

 

[L&LD]

The more antennae/streams a router offers, the better the quality of the RF design and hardware (generally).

While there are some exceptions to this, I haven't used a higher stream count router with worse results than a lower count version.

 

[RMerlin]

The benefits are real.

The lower price is also a benefit. For some people it makes no sense to spend 200$ on a router for their 10 Mbps ADSL when a 100$ router will still be able to saturate that link at long range.

There's a reason why Asus still sells $20 RT-N12 as well. DIfferent market segments.

 

[L&LD]

@RMerlin agree with your points.

However, this router is nowhere close to 'more economical'.

At this price range (I'm seeing an ad for one for $348 right now) it isn't even worth considering. At all.

 

[Tech9]

According to WFA database, only 3x Asus routers are Wi-Fi 6 Certified - XT8, AX88U and AXE11000. The rest may have to rely on old tricks with more streams with more effect on older Wi-Fi 5 clients. This may give the impression more streams are better even to 2x2 clients.

https://www.wi-fi.org/product-finder-results?sort_by=default&sort_order=desc&categories=4&capabilities=189&companies=197

 

[L&LD]

Never heard of the WFA database. A search brings up irrelevant info.

Doesn't change the real-world performance being better than lower stream examples.

 

[Tech9]

WFA:

 

[RMerlin]

At this price range (I'm seeing an ad for one for $348 right now) it isn't even worth considering. At all.

That's a scalper price. MSRP is definitely nowhere near that.

 

[JWoo]

That's a scalper price. MSRP is definitely nowhere near that.

MSRP for the Asus TUF-AX3000 V2 is allegedly going to be 199 USD approximately. That is about the same as the model it replaces, which commonly sells for 159 - 179 USD and on occasion as low as 139 USD. So yes, if someone is charging 348 USD that is a ripoff of about 75%. This platform costs Asus less than the current models from a component perspective as it uses radios integrated into the SoC.

I looked at the Broadcom specs and it appears the BCM6756 SoC on the Asus TUF-AX3000 V2 has two 2x2 radios built in (frequency appears to be SW selectable by the router MFG which is cool). So the TUF-AX3000 V2 will be strictly 2x2 unlike the current series which uses the BCM43684 chip for 5Ghz radio which is 4x4. It is at least interesting to see what choices Broadcom makes in its component and marketing choices to differentiate its products. So if Asus uses this new Asus TUF-AX3000 V2 as a platform for its AX5400 series they will have to use an additional radio chip.

 

[JWoo]

In 802.11ax the number of streams for MU-MIMO is not that important. It relies more on OFDMA and it can work with 2x2 radios. In theory 4x4 radios have better range, but only if the same radio SoC and amplifiers are compared. Some 2x2 radio routers may have better range than others with 4x4 radio.

Agree with you that the specific radio chip + amplifier (and antenna design) are the drivers of range. Great point on OFDMA for AX clients. Nice short article here: https://www.networkworld.com/articl...erence-between-ofdma-and-mu-mimo-in-11ax.html Thanks for your post!

 

[Tech9]

We mostly have AC devices on our networks. AX routers are readily available, but not AX clients. Some phones/tablets and few PC cards. This mixed network setup can still benefit from 4x4 radios. Usually 4x4 routers have better CPU and more RAM as well. This is where @L&LD experience is coming from and it's true today. Performance is a combination of multiple factors, not just Wi-Fi radio capabilities. This may change in the future when most routers will be Wi-Fi 6 certified and most clients will be AX with proper OFDMA support. Most AX routers on the market are draft AX. Only @thiggins with access to professional testing equipment can tell what is working properly and what is pure marketing.

 

[L&LD]

Even at $199 USD, that isn't any further incentive to buy this dumbed-down model. Not when a few dollars more gets you the RT-AX86U and all the real-world benefits that brings.

 

[Tech9]

RT-AX86S is on sale for 240CAD (188USD) at Canada Computers. I believe it's a better router for currently available clients situation.

 

[John_]

Just my personal opinion.
I have my RT-AX86U powered off sitting on a shelf right now because I only have two AX clients and have my GT-AX6000 set to AX only mode.
I tested my AC clients with both AX routers and my RT-AC88U and RT-AC3100 and I get better wireless speeds from the AC routers than the AX routers. (I'm not sure why.)

Until I get more AX clients that I need to use out of range of the GT-AX6000 I don't need the RT-AX86U. Then I'll retire the RT-AC3100 for the RT-AX86U.

So if you don't have AX clients, wait until you need an AX router.
Prices will change and/or something newer will be released.
I shelved the AX86U for the AX6000 since I upgraded my wired network to 2.5G and I have an Internet connection that can go up to 1.4G.

 

[Tech9]

Just my personal opinion.

Your opinion is right, but folks want new toys to play with. You have wasted $650 for extra 0.4Gbps, for example. You could run your internal network with 2.5GbE switch and use your existing good AC routers for ISP connection and Wi-Fi. How often do you notice the extra 0.4Gbps bandwidth?