What's a good NON-Asus router to replace a GT-AX6000?

[tgl]

If you want some kind of longer term support, TP-Link isn't what you want, as they're a box shifter and nothing else.

In fairness, that reputation applies to their consumer gear. I gather that Omada (their business-oriented division) has better support practices.

 

[RMinNJ]

Synology from what I saw has frequent firmware updates but few routers. Their AX router has a single 2.5 port which limits it for many but it does support vlans.

 

[Tech9]

In case single router is good enough - best price/features/performance ratio device I see in the UK is GL-MT6000. Current price on Amazon UK with £10 coupon applied is £103.25.

Usually their prices are quoted with VAT?

Ah, okay. I'm currently in Europe but keep forgetting the tax is included in most places here.

 

[jaizan]

I would not recommend anything TP-Link,

As far as I can tell, we have Asus, then a few Chinese brands and the selection is pretty thin after that. I must look into the Synology.

I'm also asking ASUS UK if they have any models where the 2.4 GHz band will maintain a stable connection. I don't expect a good answer, but I have nothing to lose by asking.

 

[TheLostSwede]

As far as I can tell, we have Asus, then a few Chinese brands and the selection is pretty thin after that. I must look into the Synology.

I'm also asking ASUS UK if they have any models where the 2.4 GHz band will maintain a stable connection. I don't expect a good answer, but I have nothing to lose by asking.

Well, they have the TUF-AX6000, also MTK based. Similar features to the GT-AX6000 and the GL-MT6000, although the GL.inet one uses eMMC for the OS rather than NAND flash, so Asus loses out there.

TUF Gaming AX6000｜WiFi Routers｜ASUS Global

ASUS gaming routers provide the very best gaming experience, with an arsenal of features and tools designed to improve online gaming performance and give you the competitive edge you need to win.

www.asus.com

You also have Netgear, but they've seemingly fallen behind and their WiFi 7 stuff is super expensive.
I would not recommend D-Link either, as they've had too many issues in the past. They also seem to be mostly bottom of the barrel stuff these days.
But yes, there's a shortage of trustworthy consumer router makers, especially ones that stand behind their products and offer decent software support.

You could give Nokia a go, if available.

https://www.nokia.com/networks/fixed-networks/home-wi-fi/wifi-beacon-g6/

 

[jzchen]

I would not recommend anything TP-Link, they are a terrible company that releases multiple hardware revision of the same piece of kit, just so they don't have to support the previously released revisions. Some products get 2-3 firmware updates and are then dropped as a hot potato in favour of the next revision of hardware. They have also released hardware on the market that couldn't be upgraded to comply with the WiFi standard, as they rushed out products and only found out later that there were issues that no firmware update in the world would fix. Since you don't know which hardware revision you get, especially if you order online, you can in fact get a product that there's no support, although this isn't entirely unique to TP-Link. If you want some kind of longer term support, TP-Link isn't what you want, as they're a box shifter and nothing else.

TP-Link definitely does change Versions and BIOS options do depend on Version number. Fair. But I think the overall this analysis is a little harsh for what they are...

I feel they are trying, trying their best actually. There were complaints that this is a Chinese Company, that they could be spying on us. Well, first I don't have anything worth spying on. Second, I read they moved headquarters out of China. (That's something I feel they need due credit for).

I am on a few (networking part of) forums: ROG, ZenTalk, TP-Link Community, SNBForum, DSLReports. Some I'm more active than others. I can see where companies take a more active role in support, and a lot more than others two of them have quite active moderators: 1st place I would say is the TP-Link DECO section where many times I see a moderator come in and try to follow up with their tech support, requesting to contact the member privately and coordinate with tech support more specifically. A close 2nd is ZenTalk. I provided enough support on ROG Network router section that they delivered my BE98 Pro sample on 11/30/23, and pretty much asked for nothing in return...

 

[microchip]

That's classic paranoia about TP-Link "spying". TP-Link has existed for a very long time and by now "spying" incidents should have been uncovered, like the ones of D-Link (actually, a discovered hidden backdoor in their firmware) or NETGEAR in the past. The majority of hardware is made in China. It's convinient to blame one used-to-be Chinese networking company, but avoid the others which could be just as "guilty" of "spying".

 

[Tech9]

How many backdoors were discovered with Cisco RV series? Seven or nine?

 

[TheLostSwede]

TP-Link definitely does change Versions and BIOS options do depend on Version number. Fair. But I think the overall this analysis is a little harsh for what they are...

Some models have at least eight different revisions and some get barely more than an update, before they're no longer supported. No other router maker out there behaves likes this.

I feel they are trying, trying their best actually. There were complaints that this is a Chinese Company, that they could be spying on us. Well, first I don't have anything worth spying on. Second, I read they moved headquarters out of China. (That's something I feel they need due credit for).

You mean like US companies move their HQ to the Bahamas for tax reasons? And you feel that is a good thing?

I am on a few (networking part of) forums: ROG, ZenTalk, TP-Link Community, SNBForum, DSLReports. Some I'm more active than others. I can see where companies take a more active role in support, and a lot more than others two of them have quite active moderators: 1st place I would say is the TP-Link DECO section where many times I see a moderator come in and try to follow up with their tech support, requesting to contact the member privately and coordinate with tech support more specifically. A close 2nd is ZenTalk. I provided enough support on ROG Network router section that they delivered my BE98 Pro sample on 11/30/23, and pretty much asked for nothing in return...

How does any of that help, when the device you bought yesterday, got its last firmware six months ago and the manufacturer has moved on to two new hardware revisions since the one you bought was made? Again, no other router or even hardware manufacturer behaves like TP-Link.
Until they can prove they offer firmware updates for all revisions of a router for at least three years, I wouldn't buy any of their products.

Yes, the competition isn't great either and there are a lot of other companies I wouldn't buy products from either. However, I have worked for a router manufacturer that used to issue monthly updates (yes, that might be a bit excessive, but we were still adding new features regularly) and it's possible for all the router makers out there to issues a quarterly firmware update. Stop making 10 similar SKUs with hardware features limited in firmware, just so you can charge $10 more or less for various product SKUs.

 

[TheLostSwede]

That's classic paranoia about TP-Link "spying". TP-Link has existed for a very long time and by now "spying" incidents should have been uncovered, like the ones of D-Link (actually, a discovered hidden backdoor in their firmware) or NETGEAR in the past. The majority of hardware is made in China. It's convinient to blame one used-to-be Chinese networking company, but avoid the others which could be just as "guilty" of "spying".

Yeah, no, I'm not even talking about any kind of paranoid crap like that, see above for my reasoning not to buy their products.
Again, I used to work for a router manufacturer and we ended having to move some production from Taiwan to xina due to lack of suitable manufacturing (actually production testing) partners in Taiwan. It's not as if a factory in xina can just inject their own code into the router firmware of a random company during production, as usually pre-programmed memory chips are provided or an encrypted firmware image is provided, that is programmed during the production.

 

[Tech9]

Some models have at least eight different revisions and some get barely more than an update, before they're no longer supported. No other router maker out there behaves likes this.

True, but perhaps no other company sells as many devices as TP-Link. Successful business strategy, no questions about it. Others are trying to copy with different success rate. Many users on the consumer market don't even know what firmware update is and don't care about it. The reason auto firmware updates will perhaps become mandatory at some point. TP-Link has comparable specs models $100 cheaper than competition. Price is a major purchase decision factor.

In contrast to consumer Archer/Deco products Omada business products are clearly following different marketing and development strategy. Also very successful - they are killing it with the wide range of compatible devices. Some may not like what TP-Link does, but the market disagrees.

 

[TheLostSwede]

but the market disagrees.

The market it stupid and uneducated. This is why we have so many botnets.

 

[Tech9]

The market it stupid and uneducated.

Yes, many businesses are based on this fact. One of them, specific target version, is mine.

 

[jzchen]

@TheLostSwede Well, it depends where the company moves from and to. If the company moved headquarters from the USA to the Bahamas, sure Red flag suspicion, but from China to Singapore is in the opposite direction to what you are suggesting is a concern. Also, the other headquarters is here in USA Irvine CA. Please don't dirty the facts...

 

[degrub]

RANT ON
In my experience, any company operating in PRC, regardless of home country, has to comply with the law and rules set by the CCP. No different than anywhere really. However, if they are interested, for whatever reason, the CCP can demand access to the technology, by law, and impose whatever requirements on the company. When we built new chemical plants in PRC, we basically gave the government the technology because we were required to use the design institutes. We chose not to build certain types of plants in PRC based on that issue. This was not true for most other countries where we could keep manufacturing technology secret while designing, constructing, and operating the plant.

Moving regional operations out of PRC while leaving manufacturing, is a prudent step to reduce suspicion.

Industrial espionage is rampant throughout the world. Add the potential for politically motivated easy access to another country's assets or worse, just raises the suspicion to another level. Kaspersky is a recent example. Tik Tok and others are the newest.

RANT OFF

 

[tiddlywink]

@TheLostSwede Well, it depends where the company moves from and to. If the company moved headquarters from the USA to the Bahamas, sure Red flag suspicion, but from China to Singapore is in the opposite direction to what you are suggesting is a concern. Also, the other headquarters is here in USA Irvine CA. Please don't dirty the facts...

TP Link Headquarters

TP Link’s new headquarters in Shenzhen reimagines the traditional office environment to meet the needs of one of the world’s most influential technology companies. Promoting flexibility and activity, the building serves as an epicenter of the city’s growing global reputation for technology...

www.kpf.com

Tplink has moved their Shenzhen headquarters to a brand new Shenzhen headquarters.

 

[sfx2000]

Yeah, no, I'm not even talking about any kind of paranoid crap like that, see above for my reasoning not to buy their products.
Again, I used to work for a router manufacturer and we ended having to move some production from Taiwan to xina due to lack of suitable manufacturing (actually production testing) partners in Taiwan. It's not as if a factory in xina can just inject their own code into the router firmware of a random company during production, as usually pre-programmed memory chips are provided or an encrypted firmware image is provided, that is programmed during the production.

I tend to agree - most of the security issues are sloppy code, not intentional - intentional backdoors take a lot of skill to execute cleanly...

Taiwan and Shenzen - making product in Shenzen is simply amazing - much like Hinchsu Park in Taiwan - one can take a HW design done in-house, and sit down with their engineers to optimize it for manufacturing, including adjusting as needed for the supply chain...

When I say supply chain - it's everything from the plastics to the chips and all the popcorn parts like resistors, capacitors, etc - the parts that go into your router/AP benefit from Shenzhen being ground zero for the mobile/handset business - the parts are the same at a basic level... it's the economics of scale...

Sitting down with their factory guys, one can tune the board layouts and parts - this is what they do, and the factory time is the same, whether it's a 1000 units per hour, or 2000 - most of the factory/production folks want to move product as fast as possible through the lines and less hands on the product, the better...

As @TheLostSwede mentions - the NAND/NOR/eMMC parts are usually preflashed - not just for security, but also to save time - and the code that codes in those parts is generally written outside of the factory - for my products, code was in the US, UK, DE, and India...

Things are moving about - India and Vietnam are getting market share on the factories - it takes time...

I have concerns when politics steps in - "China Bad" isn't really true, as we're all connected at the economic level, and that makes folks work together to get things done...

End of the day - if one wants to Make America Great Again and buy a US made Router/AP - are you willing to pay twice the price?

If so, speak up, and if enough of you do - maybe we can explore it...

Until then - keep in mind that every high-end smartphone is still made in... yep, China

 

[jaizan]

A close 2nd is ZenTalk. I provided enough support on ROG Network router section that they delivered my BE98 Pro sample on 11/30/23, and pretty much asked for nothing in return...

The Asus support in the UK is less helpful. After hearing of my 2.4 GHz issue, they merely asked me to return the router.
I sent them links to numerous forum posts with Asus customers complaining about the 2.4 GHz and asked them if Asus have any routers with reliable 2.4 GHz. He did not take the opportunity to recommend something.
Perhaps I should e-mail the CEO with a list of links.

So as Asus are unwilling to deal with that, I'm looking for alternatives.

 

[Tech9]

You started from an obsolete RT-AC66U. Virtually any new router is going to be an upgrade. Most folks would just grab one popular Archer AX55 for under £100 and call it a day. It's currently £67 on Amazon UK and they allow returns as far as I know. In Europe more expensive routers mostly give you firmware features. All routers in Europe are restricted by local regulations to 100mW on 2.4GHz band and 200mW on 5GHz band non-DFS range. I could tell you this earlier if I knew the country you live in.

 

[TheLostSwede]

@TheLostSwede Well, it depends where the company moves from and to. If the company moved headquarters from the USA to the Bahamas, sure Red flag suspicion, but from China to Singapore is in the opposite direction to what you are suggesting is a concern. Also, the other headquarters is here in USA Irvine CA. Please don't dirty the facts...

Why would that be the opposite direction? Singapore is more or less a xinese vassal state at this point in time. It's a dictatorship in all but name, having had a single party ruling the nation since its founding and all other alternatives are being shut down in various ways. Any complaints about the government is silenced. Singapore is not a place of freedom of any kind. The HQ was simply moved there to trick people like you into thinking something changed. You really need to read up on Asian nations before coming with silly comments like this.