Wifi ax 2.4G real life speed vs Wifi n 2.4G

[dogf]

Hi,
I am using an AC router (Asus AC3100) and considering upgrading to AX (perhap AX88U) as most phones and laptops are AX now. My main target is improving wifi speed over 2.4G wifi AX, as 5GHz signal could not well cover my house (due to the house design I cannot cable backhaul 2 routers).
So my question is:
at the same range (e.g 10m), same client (AX capable) connect to 2.4G Wifi 4 and 2.4G wifi 6 hotspot.s: Will 2.4G Wifi 6 case provide much better speed in real life?

 

[Tech9]

For maximum range (20MHz vs 40MHz channel, 3db difference) and due to Wi-Fi environment factors (limited channels, heavy use) most people use 20MHz wide channel on 2.4GHz band. Close to the AP/router 802.11n 2-stream client has PHY rate 144Mbps and data throughput about 90Mbps, 802.11ax 2-stream client has 287Mbps PHY rate and data throughput about 180mbps. This is the maximum you can get in relatively quiet Wi-Fi environment and up to about -60dBm signal level, further away from the AP/router and with lower signal levels the speed will drop. In short - AX can be 2x fast compared to N on 2.4GHz band, but nothing even close to AX on 5GHz band.

 

[dogf]

That's 2x improvement is good. Thank you for clear response.

For maximum range (20MHz vs 40MHz channel, 3db difference) and due to Wi-Fi environment factors (limited channels, heavy use) most people use 20MHz wide channel on 2.4GHz band. Close to the AP/router 802.11n 2-stream client has PHY rate 144Mbps and data throughput about 90Mbps, 802.11ax 2-stream client has 287Mbps PHY rate and data throughput about 180mbps. This is the maximum you can get in relatively quiet Wi-Fi environment and up to about -60dBm signal level, further away from the AP/router and with lower signal levels the speed will drop. In short - AX can be 2x fast compared to N on 2.4GHz band, but nothing even close to AX on 5GHz band.

 

[Tech9]

There is a catch - higher modulation schemes in 802.11ax require better SNR. If there is activity on the 2.4GHz band around you this 2x speed may not happen at the same distances - your AX client has to be closer. In my real life testing in my Wi-Fi environment I could get around 70-80Mbps to 2-stream client in N-only mode and about 100-140Mbps with AX enabled. Still better, but not really 2x. Also N speed is more consistent, AX speed jumps up and down.

 

[dogf]

At my house, actually the worst signal device working on 2.4 is -70 dbs while noise is ~-89-~86. Typical device at 10m is ~ -60 dbm.

There is a catch - higher modulation schemes in 802.11ax require better SNR. If there is activity on the 2.4GHz band around you this 2x speed may not happen at the same distances - your AX client has to be closer. In my real life testing in my Wi-Fi environment I could get around 70-80Mbps to 2-stream client in N-only mode and about 100-140Mbps with AX enabled. Still better, but not really 2x. Also N speed is more consistent, AX speed jumps up and down.

 

[Tech9]

Lower dBm number is stronger signal. At -70dBm or lower (higher dBm number) you can't have good speeds. About 10m around the router with no obstructions (walls, large appliances, etc.) you can eventually see the speeds mentioned above. Further away - unlikely. Your coverage area also depends on the region. Routers in different regions have different power output.

 

[dogf]

My AC3100 was installed Merlin 386.9. Wifi transmission power is set to "balanced" for better coverage by allowing weak devices like phones or IOT devices to be able to easily "talk".
At 10m (2x 10cm walls between router and device):
+ 2.4G: Rx/Tx: 60/30 mbps (AX Samsung phone)
+ 5G: Rx/Tx: 190/160 mbps (AX Samsung phone)

I am looking to improve 2.4G to ~2x with Ax88U.

Lower dBm number is stronger signal. At -70dBm or lower (higher dBm number) you can't have good speeds. About 10m around the router with no obstructions (walls, large appliances, etc.) you can eventually see the speeds mentioned above. Further away - unlikely. Your coverage area also depends on the region. Routers in different regions have different power output.

 

[degrub]

Two possible issues -
Any increase in tx power is likely to increase RF reflections. AX tech may help some, but the basic environment will be the issue. This is one reason you see more APs at lower power in commercial installs.
The client is likely the limiting factor for radios
You will have to experiment to find out.

 

[Tech9]

My AC3100 was installed Merlin 386.9

Your 3rd party firmware changes nothing Wi-Fi related.

Wifi transmission power is set to "balanced" for better coverage by allowing weak devices like phones or IOT devices to be able to easily "talk".

Single router - set it to default Performance and test again.

 

[dogf]

The power transmission setting does work. You are wrong about that.

Your 3rd party firmware changes nothing Wi-Fi related.



Single router - set it to default Performance and test again.

 

[dogf]

Yes, I have thoroughly tested. "Balanced" is the best for my house with current router. The new one should also be able to change tx power.

Two possible issues -
Any increase in tx power is likely to increase RF reflections. AX tech may help some, but the basic environment will be the issue. This is one reason you see more APs at lower power in commercial installs.
The client is likely the limiting factor for radios
You will have to experiment to find out.

 

[Tech9]

You are wrong about that.

About what?

 

[dogf]

Tthe Merlin tx setting does change the output tx power.

About what?

 

[aex.perez]

Best I get on my cheap Android Tablets 2.4Ghz AX single 40Mhz, 229Mbs in both directions and stable. But I had to work for it, optimizing WiFi signals on both bands for MY environment (using ASUS / Merlin Site Survey and various other tools to determine best channel to use in MY envronment and MY setup, one size does not fit all) and signal strengh between nodes (walls, studs, neighbors, cars, air traffic, and other stuff). This pales in comparison to the 5Ghz AC 2, 80Mhz stream iPhone, 1200Mbps, and 5Ghz AX 2, 160Mhz stream laptop, 2500Mbps which is even better (ASUS, Network Map, Client List).

For example, choose your favorite speed test and target, and on a good day on the iPhone/Laptop, results, at least mine vary between 400-700Mbps, wired PC close to the 1Gb, about 900-945Mbps, both directions. The TV and streaming boxes, wired, even with a 4k, UHD, with all the Dolby fixings, with lots of action, I've only seen hit 15Mbps peaks for a few seconds.

I'd be less worried about hitting a hero/target number in terms of speed and instead worry about how well your devices work. Otherwise you may find yourself chasing a never ending goal and not really gaing anything for the amount of effort your putting in.

Another example, various tools will show,

I can guarantee, I'll never get this in real life and shouldn't waste time trying to chase it as there several (to many to mention) technical, real world realities that prevent that. One thing is what's reported in the OS and in ASUS Wireless logs and other tools and real world.

Even with my environment, with an ISP with symmetrical 1GB fiber, and the AX88u (3004.388.8-2) CPU very lightly loaded and minimal TrendMicro features (QoS, Bandwidth Monitor, Parental Controls, Time Schedueling, with BWDPI not running) being used, is a lot less. At this point not seeing how 3006/ASUSWRT 5.0, WiFi7 (MLO and 320Mhz bandwith), 2.5GB ports, on consumer gear or greater with 1GB fiber in MY environment isn't going to improve that much to justify the upgrades and maturity (firmware, features), disclaimer: yet!

As always, you mileage will vary...

 

[Crimliar]

Interestingly I've just performed a couple of 2.4GHz speedtests on my laptop (not the fastest WiFi device on our network). See:
2.4GHz/20 AX https://www.speedtest.net/result/16720986009
2.4GHz/20 N https://www.speedtest.net/result/16720998609
*There is other streaming activity on the network here at the moment but that's wired and on 5GHz, leaving just these tests and background devices on 2.4GHz.

 

[aex.perez]

Tthe Merlin tx setting does change the output tx power.

More like, attenuating it or not, as it won't exceed (in my case FCC) regulatory signal strength...

 

[Tech9]

the Merlin tx setting does change the output tx power

You misunderstood the meaning. Asuswrt-Merlin has exactly the same Wi-Fi settings as stock Asuswrt. Nothing more. It doesn't matter what firmware you run, the results will be the same.

Interestingly I've just performed a couple of 2.4GHz speedtests

Very close to realistic expectations results.

 

[Tech9]

as it won't exceed (in my case FCC) regulatory...

We still don't know what's @dogf region.

 

[aex.perez]

We still don't know what's @dogf region.

Yes, and that's one of those variables, amongst many others, and why I mention mine
But based on his SpeedTest results (BT, Ilkley, Talk Straight) I'm thinking UK

 

[Tech9]

If EU/UK - 2.4GHz band is limited to 20dBm or 100mW. I would try 5GHz on Ch.100 at 80MHz wide and Performance - it may have about the same range as 2.4GHz in EU/UK, depending on the clients used.