Will MoCA Work?

[rpmartinez1987]

Old house built in the early 1920s, we’re trying to easily get an Ethernet line to several rooms and the carriage house that’s about 60ft from the main house.
A few years ago Spectrum ran coax cables to several rooms as well as the carriage house. Can any one point me in the direction of a MoCA compatible amplifier/splitter that can make this work? In the past I've used this Holland 8-way splitter but I think I will need something else here.

 

[drinkingbird]

Old house built in the early 1920s, we’re trying to easily get an Ethernet line to several rooms and the carriage house that’s about 60ft from the main house.
A few years ago Spectrum ran coax cables to several rooms as well as the carriage house. Can any one point me in the direction of a MoCA compatible amplifier/splitter that can make this work? In the past I've used this Holland 8-way splitter but I think I will need something else here.View attachment 53700View attachment 53702View attachment 53703

If you can disconnect a couple cables and make a dedicated run, that will be your best bet. Just toss whatever MOCA adapter you want on both ends and you have essentially an ethernet run (but with about 3-4msec of latency). If not possible you'll need MOCA rated splitters (easy to find online) and probably filters too.

An 8 way splitter will destroy your signal. If you need that many drops, start with one splitter that feeds your MOCA endpoints, cable modem, and a port going to an amplifier/splitter to feed TVs as they are much less sensitive to amplifiers and the issues they can introduce.

 

[rpmartinez1987]

If you can disconnect a couple cables and make a dedicated run, that will be your best bet. Just toss whatever MOCA adapter you want on both ends and you have essentially an ethernet run (but with about 3-4msec of latency). If not possible you'll need MOCA rated splitters (easy to find online) and probably filters too.

An 8 way splitter will destroy your signal. If you need that many drops, start with one splitter that feeds your MOCA endpoints, cable modem, and a port going to an amplifier/splitter to feed TVs as they are much less sensitive to amplifiers and the issues they can introduce.

Cable TV is currently being used at all coax ends.

 

[drinkingbird]

Cable TV is currently being used at all coax ends.

Well MOCA is going to be difficult but probably doable. The 2 tier splitter/amp setup still applies, MOCA and modem (plus the TVs that share those runs) on the smallest splitter you can use, then an amp and splitter off that for the rest of the TVs.

I'm assuming running an Ethernet or another coax is out of the question? Depending how it was run, may be able to use the existing wire to pull through 2 new ones.

Another thought is a 2 way MOCA splitter off your main splitter, with filter, which would theoretically let the MOCA talk directly, and still let the amplified TV signal reach those TVs.

Maybe if you make a simple diagram of the coax runs, MOCA locations etc it would be easier to figure out the best setup.

 

[rpmartinez1987]

Here’s a diagram of my current MoCA Network. I was able to get MoCA working in every room but the 3rd floor bedroom and carriage house. What’s interesting though is that if I place a MoCA node on the kitchen coax line and then plug the Ethernet from the moca hub into the LAN port of an access point that I’ve placed as wireless bridge, the carriage house MoCA node comes alive and works. But if I don’t have anything connected to the kitchen feeding internet back into the MoCA network the carriage house node doesn’t work…could I have reached the MoCA distance limit?

 

[krkaufman]

Kinda tough to advise as it's not clear what components are located where or what the coax line start/end-points are. Per reddit, it seems like a lot of the coax lines may come to a central junction, given the original intent to use a 8-way splitter:

I should have clarified that I plan on changing the amp and the splitter to this 8-way splitter

Where's the 3rd floor bedroom in the diagram?

Do you have brand & model #s for the splitters used?

Can any one point me in the direction of a MoCA compatible amplifier/splitter that can make this work?

Several different models could work, but may not be appropriate depending on the coax topology. (MoCA can't flow between the input port of an amplifier and the outputs.)

How many coax runs are available between the top-level 2-way splitter in the diagram and the location of the "Basement" 4-way splitter? Or are these 2 splitters co-located?

And looking at the pics in the OP, did you disconnect EVERYTHING and use tracing tools to get the distinct coax runs authoritatively identified?

Do you have cable Internet? edit: Per reddit: No.

Spectrum is only for cable tv. The internet is provided by Westlecom fiber.

More detail on how everything is connected would be helpful, including working/non-working MoCA adapters, as well as depiction of any coax run available but unused.

 

[rpmartinez1987]

Kinda tough to advise as it's not clear what components are located where or what the coax line start/end-points are. Per reddit, it seems like a lot of the coax lines may come to a central junction, given the original intent to use a 8-way splitter:


Where's the 3rd floor bedroom in the diagram?

Do you have brand & model #s for the splitters used?




Several different models could work, but may not be appropriate depending on the coax topology. (MoCA can't flow between the input port of an amplifier and the outputs.)

How many coax runs are available between the top-level 2-way splitter in the diagram and the location of the "Basement" 4-way splitter? Or are these 2 splitters co-located?

And looking at the pics in the OP, did you disconnect EVERYTHING and use tracing tools to get the distinct coax runs authoritatively identified?

Do you have cable Internet? edit: Per reddit: No.


More detail on how everything is connected would be helpful, as well as depiction of any coax run available but unused.

The third floor bedroom was wrongfully mislabeled as 2nd master bedroom. Here’s a revised Diagram.

I am now using all antronix splitters: the 4-way MMC1004H-B and the antronix 2-way MMC1002H-B.

I have removed the power amplifier from the topology doesn’t seem like I actually needed it as all cable TVs are still working.

There’s only one coax run between the top level 2-way splitter and basement 4-way splitter.

Yes, I disconnected everything the only coax cable I couldn’t properly tone is the one in the 3rd floor bedroom but I was able to follow its coax cable run from the MoCA 4-way splitter on the 2nd floor left side of the house to the room on the 3rd floor.

The only coax cables that are currently available but not being used are the cable tv coax cable that’s at the entry point that’s labeled as “unused cable tv coax…” and the coax that I’ve labeled as “having a brain fart right now…” both of these cables come from street poles.

 

[krkaufman]

Here’s a revised Diagram.

This diagram failed to carry over the corrections for the line between the top-level 2-way splitter and "Basement" 4-way, and the 2nd disconnected “from street” line, right?

The only coax cables that are currently available but not being used are the cable tv coax cable that’s at the entry point that’s labeled as “unused cable tv coax…” and the coax that I’ve labeled as “having a brain fart right now…” both of these cables come from street poles.

Any chance these two cables are opposite ends of the same cable? Or does the “Basement” street line pass through the entry point? (Seems odd that it would be a street line with a wholly separate path to the pole.)

Also, just to understand, “entry point” is some junction box outside, physically separated from the “Basement” splitter location?

 

[rpmartinez1987]

This diagram failed to carry over the corrections for the line between the top-level 2-way splitter and "Basement" 4-way, and the 2nd disconnected “from street” line, right?



Any chance these two cables are opposite ends of the same cable? Or does the “Basement” street line pass through the entry point? (Seems odd that it would be a street line with a wholly separate path to the pole.)

Also, just to understand, “entry point” is some junction box outside, physically separated from the “Basement” splitter location?

This diagram failed to carry over the corrections for the line between the top-level 2-way splitter and "Basement" 4-way, and the 2nd disconnected “from street” line, right?



Any chance these two cables are opposite ends of the same cable? Or does the “Basement” street line pass through the entry point? (Seems odd that it would be a street line with a wholly separate path to the pole.)

Also, just to understand, “entry point” is some junction box outside, physically separated from the “Basement” splitter location?

Here’s a different link to the Diagram if you look to the bottom right of the splitter labels as Basement MoCA 2.0 compatible splitter you’ll see that I have line drawn that goes to the MoCA two way splitter that then leads to the family room and the master bedroom.

Yes the entry point I’m referring to is a junction box outside of the house.

 

[krkaufman]

the only coax cable I couldn’t properly tone is the one in the 3rd floor bedroom but I was able to follow its coax cable run from the MoCA 4-way splitter on the 2nd floor left side of the house to the room on the 3rd floor.

This points to a possible issue with this coax line, then, right, and maybe why its failing to connect to MoCA? Have you opened the wallplates to check the coax terminations? Re-terminated the coax lines and/or tried connecting bypassing the wallplate outlets? Can a pair of MoCA adapters connect if directly connected using just this coax line?

What’s interesting though is that if I place a MoCA node on the kitchen coax line and then plug the Ethernet from the moca hub into the LAN port of an access point that I’ve placed as wireless bridge, the carriage house MoCA node comes alive and works. But if I don’t have anything connected to the kitchen feeding internet back into the MoCA network the carriage house node doesn’t work

Does a MoCA adapter link if connected to the coax line currently connected to the input port of the "left side" 4-way splitter? (That is, moving the coax line from the splitter input port to the MoCA adapter.)

 

[rpmartinez1987]

When spectrum ran the coax lines to the house they did not put in wall plates, they just drilled a hole in the wall and pass thru the cable. I’ll try my hand at reterminating it to see if that’ll resolve the issue.

Well I know moca is working to the “left side” 4–way moca splitter because the kitchen coax line connects to that splitter and Moca works on that line. If I then place an access point (old Apple AirPort Extreme) that’s wirelessly extending the signal from another access point, if I connect an Ethernet cable to one of the lan ports of the AirPort Extreme and then connect the other end to the kitchen MoCA node’s Ethernet port, the carriage house moca adapter works.

 

[krkaufman]

Here’s a different link to the Diagram

This appears to be the same revised diagram posted above, both of which lack the corrections from the original. Attempting to visualize:

Still wondering about the 2nd "street" line(s)... Any chance these two cables are opposite ends of the same cable? Or does the “Basement” street line pass through the entry point? (Seems odd that it would be a street line with a wholly separate path to the pole.)

 

[krkaufman]

When spectrum ran the coax lines to the house they did not put in wall plates, they just drilled a hole in the wall and pass thru the cable.

Ha!, that takes care of those extra possible fault points.

Well I know moca is working to the “left side” 4–way moca splitter because the kitchen coax line connects to that splitter and Moca works on that line.

I saw the associated comments above, but it wasn't entirely clear that any output of the "left side" 4-way splitter was actually able to connect via MoCA to any points upstream of the splitter. The above comments seemed to indicate that localized MoCA connectivity between outputs of the splitter worked, and that the network path to the router was via the linked wireless media bridge... rather than any MoCA connection through the coax line between the "left side" splitter and "primary MoCA adapter."

So are you saying that if a MoCA adapter is connected and powered-up in the Kitchen (and MoCA adapters in 3rd floor bedroom and Carriage House are powered-OFF; i.e. NO OTHER MoCA adapters powered downstream of the "left side" splitter), that the Kitchen MoCA adapter indicates a MoCA link? And that a computer connected via Ethernet directly to this Kitchen MoCA adapter's network port has Internet connectivity?

 

[krkaufman]

I’ll try my hand at reterminating it to see if that’ll resolve the issue.

Compression fittings are the preferred method, nowadays. (example compression termination kit)

 

[rpmartinez1987]

So are you saying that if a MoCA adapter is connected and powered-up in the Kitchen (and MoCA adapters in 3rd floor bedroom and Carriage House are powered-OFF; i.e. NO OTHER MoCA adapters powered downstream of the "left side" splitter), that the Kitchen MoCA adapter indicates a MoCA link? And that a computer connected via Ethernet directly to this Kitchen MoCA adapter's network port has Internet connectivity?

Yes that's what I'm saying. If the 3rd floor bedroom MoCA node and the Carriage House MoCA node are powered off then I do get a MoCA link and internet connectivity to my computer/or access point's WAN port from the Kitchen MoCA Node. If I connect a MoCA node to the 3rd floor bedroom and the Carriage house, I get a MoCA link and internet connectivity to the kitchen MoCA node but the 3rd floor bedroom and Carraige house MoCA Nodes do not receive any connectivity.

But, If I place a wireless bridge in the Kitchen and I connect an ethernet cable from the wireless bridge's LAN port to the Kitchen MoCA's ethernet port then all of a sudden the carriage house MoCA node comes alive and passes thru internet connectivity.

Compression fittings are the preferred method, nowadays. (example compression termination kit)

I have the tools, I'll give it a try but honestly we don't really care much for the 3rd floor bedroom, it's never used and I bet there's a splitter buried somewhere along the floors/carpet that we haven't discovered for that line that's causing MoCA not to work. The Carriage house is the one that's driving me crazy. I got it working by doing what I mentioned above. But, I don't understand why it doesn't receive a MoCA signal on its own. Maybe it really is because of the distance...? But honestly if I were to measure it, the carriage house coax line is probably 200ft from the Master MoCA in the basement.
The next thing I plan on trying is connecting one MoCA node to the kitchen connecting that ethernet port to the Airport Extreme's WAN port and then plugging an ethernet cable from the Airport Extreme's LAN port to another MoCA node that I'll place in the Kitchen, and finally connecting both MoCA nodes in the kitchen by coax to each other...

 

[krkaufman]

Does a MoCA adapter link if connected to the coax line currently connected to the input port of the "left side" 4-way splitter? (That is, moving the coax line from the splitter input port to the MoCA adapter.)

An even more focused test, eliminating all other factors... Can 2 MoCA adapters link when attached to each end of the coax line running between the top-level splitter and "left side" 4-way?

edit: Not necessary or as informative given declaration that Kitchen has Internet connectivity via "primary MoCA adapter."​

 

[krkaufman]

Maybe it really is because of the distance...?

Yes, possibly, but as a factor of total path loss between the Carriage House and "primary MoCA adapter" (as measured at MoCA frequencies).

• MoCA loss budget walkthrough
• Antronix MMC1000-B specs PDF
• coax attenuation chart (per 100 ft)

This is why I've been trying to get a better understanding of the available coax and device locations, to see how the coax plant could be optimized.

Is the "left side" splitter outdoors? Worst case, just wondering if there's some opportunity similar to the workarounds from the MoCA Best Practices doc (section 3.7, pgs 18-21) for extending MoCA connectivity over a more complex, uncooperative coax plant.

 

[krkaufman]

Carriage house is the one that's driving me crazy. I got it working by doing what I mentioned above. But, I don't understand why it doesn't receive a MoCA signal on its own. Maybe it really is because of the distance...?

One test would be to bypass the "left side" splitter and use a 3 GHz F-81 barrel connector to direct-connect the Carriage House line to the coax line coming from the top-level splitter.

 

[rpmartinez1987]

Except for the basement, all splitters are outdoors in weather proof boxes.

 

[krkaufman]

Still wondering about the 2nd "street" line(s)... Any chance these two cables are opposite ends of the same cable? Or does the “Basement” street line pass through the entry point? (Seems odd that it would be a street line with a wholly separate path to the pole.)