Wireless AC Upgrade - Thoughts and Opinions Needed

[121x]

Hi All,

Bit of a long winded post so I apologize in advance.

That said I am researching an upgrade to my existing wireless router. Currently have over 30 wireless devices, between xbox ones, ps4, laptops (4), phones (4), tablets (3), tv’s (4), roku’s (3), stereos (2), smarthings hub, smart devices (9), cameras (3). I may be missing a couple but you get the gist. Really just an average smart home with a family.

3300 sq ft. home, router is more or less centralized. Live in the suburbs so signal congestion is not a huge consideration. I have recently converted many of these devices from wired to wireless. Surprisingly to myself I was using the previous Rogers Hitron modem and it served us well. However since upgrading to 1Gbps, the new white hitron coda sucks. It has become unstable whereby it randomly drops selected devices, forcing a reboot of the modem. Just restarting the device only works half the time. I am becoming reliant on our network so stability is becoming more important. I have my two work workstations connected via Ethernet. I have converted several of the previously wired devices to wireless. We are beginning to stream more 4k now too. Not so much that it drives the decision, but enough to take into account.

Since only about half a dozen of the devices are wireless AC, I am not sure whether there is value in investing in a tri-band router as a bit of future proofing, or sticking with a fast processor equipped dual-band 1900 or 2300 for less money, that I am sure would handle the client load. What I find surprising is that the technology has not really changed in the past 3 years.

Although I have a number of devices it is not like they are all being used simultaneously and many of them do little more than establish a connection.


I would like the best range best possible (who wouldn’t), would like VPN support (I connect in remotely for work), traffic monitoring and usage graphs (I like to have visibility into what is going on), and stability and parental controls.

I am not opposed to flashing to a third party firmware, but I will say that one thing I like about the Synology RT2600 is the GUI. Not that you spend a considerable amount of time in it once configured, but it is nice to have luxury and features available and the add-on packages.

Here are the current contenders that I am weighing. I am open to others, but these are devices that I feel I would be content with for the money (based on reviews and opinions on forums).


Asus: RT-AC86U, RT-AC5300
TP-Link: AC-5400, AC-3200
Netgear: R7800 running DDWRT (or alternative (not sure what is supported))
Synology: RT2600AC (kind of my first pick)

I ran N66U for years and it was rock solid, so I would have absolutely no problem going with another Asus, just don’t feel like the interface is a feature rich as what is available from some competitors for the price.

 

[Poseidon]

People here are most likely going to recommend the Asus 86U but in all honesty BOTH the Synology RT2600AC and the Netgear 7800 are superior routers with better wifi range and performance.

I've used nothing but Asus routers for the best several years (1900P most recently) and a couple of months ago I switched to the Synology RT2600AC and I'm never looking back! This thing is a beast and never ever needs to be rebooted. Not only am I getting faster 5Ghz Wifi speeds and range...the software is also not "dumbed-down" like with Asus and offers vastly more features. Also customer support is top notch and they update frequently.

Netgear 7800 has similar hardware as the Synology but stock firmware is garbage and their customer support is even worse. FYI.

 

[HowIFix]

@thiggins You can re-test the Synology AC2600 router (RT2600ac) if you have time, with the method / revision 10.

In revision number 9 this router was #1 in the Rank and the R7800 #5, but in revision number 10, the R7800 is in #1 and there is no test for the Synology AC2600 router.

If you can not, there's no problem.

Closing Thoughts
We have only two AC2600 class routers tested with the V9 process, the NETGEAR R7800 and Synology RT2600ac. Nonetheless, I'm sure Synology will be happy to see the RT2600ac tied with the NETGEAR for #1 rank in AC2600 routers.

The Ranker Performance Summary comparison of the two routers shows some of the sub-rankings the same, but the differences balanced out to yield the same #1 rank score.



Ranker Performance Summary comparison
Our RT1900ac review concluded that it had a nice feature set that could be enhanced by a relatively small set of add-on packages. But its performance didn't stack up well against other products in its class for wireless performance.

However, instead of admitting defeat and leaving the highly-competitive Wi-Fi router market, Synology dug in and came up with a much better product in the RT2600ac. Synology not only improved performance, but also expanded features in areas near and dear to router geeks' hearts. And despite the change in processor platforms from Broadcom to Qualcomm, Synology showed its commitment to its installed base by bringing the new features to both platforms.

Although the RT2600ac is Synology's best router yet, it's only the company's second offering in an industry with both well-established competitors and innovative newcomers. While the RT2600ac is an achievement to be proud of, the company still has a long way to go to show it is in Wi-Fi for the long haul. Bigger storage companies have taken a run at the Wi-Fi router market, WD most notably, and decided it was more of a distraction than an asset. Time will tell whether Synology reaches the same conclusion.

 

[HowIFix]

Edges:

• Synology RT2600ac: bandsteering with 4x4 Qualcomm WiFi (other such 4x4 Qualcomm routers like R7800) + strong 2.4GHz
• Asus RT-AC86U: best consumer VPN performance + very strong wired performance
  
• Netgear R7800: Qualcomm Streamboost (fq_codel - one of the best, modern anti-bufferbloat technologies) + best consumer WiFi performance overall + very strong open source support

If prices of all three were identical, then the choice would be easy for the majority of typical consumers: Synology RT2600ac if you don't use client VPN on your router OR Asus RT-AC86U if you do OR Netgrear R7800 if you only want a single powerful, WiFi access point and you are keen on open source.

For the reference I have AC56U, AC68U, AC86U and R7000, R9000 and RT2600AC.
AC86U is great overall but their FW is very buggy, lots of things are broken which Merlin tries to patch better or worse. He does excellent job and his support is the main reason of getting Asus in my opinion. Problem is with Asus mentality. Things are broken for years, like multiwan and no one gives a damn... about it. Merlin doesn't touch dual WAN related things. Latest bug I discovered is when you enable remote access with IP bind, breaks the router GUI access and reboot is required. There are many things which are buggy. Nevertheless I still prefer Asus + Merlin combo, than Tomato or DD-WRT.

Synology RT2600AC seems to be overall much better product, there is secure remote access via quickconnect + you can enable 2FA! Have not seen 2FA solution in any home router product. Things that Merlin is implementing on board of Asus routers, are already implemented in Synology and working stable which is the most important thing. GUI is excellent, clear and very easy to handle and setup everything. You can easily throw in 4G USB dongle and have it setup as a failover and it works stable, unlike Asus.

Sorry but for me Netgear routers are a complete fail with their ancient FW approach. They lack any nice features, there is no OpenVPN client built in natively, no dual wan support. The only reasonable explanation to buy Netgear is to look for some older models that support Tomato, DD-WRT or OpenWRT. But for me personally I see not point in splashing $500 for a router (R9000) to run buggy DD-WRT on it... And this is an advice from someone (me) who actually spent this kind of money for R9000....

 

[tannebil]

Serving a 3300sf house with a single wireless access point is a big ask depending on your layout and interior construction. It might be OK if it's an open loft with few interior walls but I've only got 2500sf and moved to multiple access points long ago.

A lot of your devices are going to end with a relatively weak 2.4Ghz signals and roaming devices are going to switch from 5Ghz to 2.4 once you get very far from the center. Most mesh systems have a rule of thumb of one access point per 1000-1200sf. I'd be putting my energy into a multiple WAP solution rather than worrying about the last nat's butt difference between the combo units you are discussing.

Do you need a VPN connection at the router level or just a VPN connection from a single client? If the latter, that's supported by pretty much everything. A LAN-to-LAN VPN or an inbound VPN are more complex topics.

 

[Trip]

So... 1Gig internet. 3,330 square feet. Desiring the smoothest wifi possible. And decent or better VPN and related services...

As always, this all depends on budget, skill level and how serious you are about service quality. I'm going to assume an average home user budget (in the hundreds, not thousands), beginner to intermediate skill level (not a complete novice). Please tell me if any of those are poor assumptions.

At a bare minimum, ditch any of the garbage, including first get a fiber ONT/modem that works. And is a simple ONT/modem (no modem/router combo units, just trust me, in most cases, they're simply a flake-show, as you've experienced).

From there, you could toss a replacement all-in-one consumer box in the same part of the house and see how it works (any the stuff previously mentioned, maybe that Synology... whatever). Next level would be one or two standalone APs added into the mix on non-overlapping channels with proper setup. Wifi extending is ok. Wiring them in would be better. Ethernet, MoCa or, last resort, powerline. If you don't want to monkey with any of that, perhaps a whole-house wifi mesh product (Eero latest gen with full-size satellite units being probably the best). They'll mesh wirelessly; best to use wired backhaul, though, if you can from any one of the methods I just mentioned.

Beyond that, if you want the cadillac experience straight-away with no doubts, then things probably have to get enterprise-y and/or a bit more costly, and I won't even go there, unless you're interested.

 

[HowIFix]

Beyond that, if you want the cadillac experience straight-away with no doubts, then things probably have to get enterprise-y and/or a bit more costly, and I won't even go there, unless you're interested.

With $1k, what would you buy?



Synology RT2600ac wireless router — my AirPort Extreme replacement!

Synology RT2600ac - Running through the Synology Router Manager (SRM)

 

[Trip]

With $1K, if it were me, I'd go best-bang-for-the-buck, discrete components. But again... this is me mind you.

First off, I'm assuming all structured cabling (backhaul) is already procured and in-place. If not, we'd have to re-allocate funds for ethernet runs, or do whatever MoCa or powerline could be done if that wasn't an option (not a big fan of a single L2 interfaces as my "wire", but so be it). Anyways...

Router/Firewall - For 1Gb/s of the normal stuff *and* a VPN server, I'd probably go x86, most likely the highest-clock i3 of whatever generation that made sense for the money. A minisys box off AliExpress/Amazon. Maybe a Mikrotik CCR-1009-PC. Maybe a used i5/i7 box + a NIC card, but I like lower-wattage/integrated stuff, so probably the former. Regardless, I'd aim at $400 max for all components.

Switching - I'm assuming <16 ports is ok for now. Would want something that could do local L3 switching if needed/desired. PoE tends to add expense that could, for now at least, be circumvented with a few wall-warts for much less cost. A Cisco SG-350-10 for $165 is nice. Some trumpet Mikrotik CRS or UBNT EdgeSwitch, but I need to see more track-record...

Wifi - $450 left... I'd probably put in the top SOHO Wave 2 AC mesh product, running in bridge-mode, and on wired backhaul. Some people are all hard for UBNT UniFi. I'm luke-warm on it in general, and I'd lean against it here, as we're already not all-UniFi for gateway and switching (integration being one of it's biggest selling points) and this isn't an office. So probably an Eero Pro (3-set, full-size) for $500 or hopefully $449 on sale. Or if there's a SOHO system that's better, then that one instead. As a passing note, we're too under-budget for enterprise wifi, and refurb only gets you equivalent number of 802.11N APs (fine by me, but probably not for the OP) and honestly it's almost 2019 and at least one or a few of these SOHO products should have this stuff figured out by now.

So that's what I would do. But things could vary, too; if there's no structured backhaul, or if PoE is/isn't of need, then some things might have to be trimmed down.. router/firewall CPU power... an L2 switch instead of L3... standalone APs or a cheaper mesh system, etc.

 

[HowIFix]

Thank you!

 

[121x]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to provide an update and say thank you for taking the time to provide your opinions and experience. I opted to go with Synology rt2600ac. Some of the details I failed to mention originally that I should have, router is situated almost middle of the house on the main floor. So this has saved me from a lot of the issues that many experience with having to penetrate a significant number of obstacles.

The wireless range has improved - not significantly, but enough to justify the upgrade if there were my only concern. I have pretty much doubled the speed to range to my shop and my cameras installed there and in the backyard and pool gate entrances. Having said that, the stability and throughput performance has been noticeably improved. I was pretty much expecting that. The same could likely be said for any newer router in the last 2-3 years given the improvements in hardware being provided at this consumer level now. The VPN works well for my needs.

At this point, and knowing I have solid foundation, if the need arises I know I can add an access point to increase the performance and range for my external and further away devices.

Overall, so far, this has been a satisfying upgrade. Worth mentioning, I am Canadian (ONT) but ordered from B&H Photos in NY and saved over 80 dollars buying from a canadian retailer, including Amazon, with the duty and conversion added in. Just an FYI for anyone else who may be interested in going to same route in the future.

 

[coxhaus]

I have a 3388 sq ft house and there is no way one wireless unit can cover it. I would have dead air space all over the place and weak 2.4 GHz signals. Once I opted out for multiple Cisco wireless units I turned off 2.4 GHz so all my devices would run at high 5 GHz speed rates.

I can't see too many people living with a bad wireless environment so your solution does not appeal to me and probably others. You should of listened to Trip.

 

[Easy Rhino]

You should of listened to Trip.

I wouldn't judge 121x too harshly. He replaced a single component for a couple hundred bucks and it improved his situation significantly.

Sure, the situation has some snowflake considerations that might be hard to replicate for Joe Average:
* workstations are already ethernet
* ideal donut-shaped house with router in middle
* not much interference.

But still, for his circumstance, it seems pretty good!

Now if he needs a high performing workstation in the storage shed in the yard it will ruin everything, of course.

 

[ct1615]

I use two APs to cover 1600 sqft (plus basement) but then I'm in a city and receive close to a dozen other wi-fi signals in my home.

 

[Trip]

I don't really blame @121x for going the simple route and seeing how it goes. It certainly appears a jump in capability on the wifi side of things. Whether specific items are enough is largely personal preference. For example, you certainly won't be serving OpenVPN at anywhere near 1Gb/s, but if it's enough for you, then you've chosen just as well.

And if you find you still want for more wifi range, you could work on installing Cat6/6a, or doing MoCa, to opposite ends of the house for 2 more APs.

 

[Gasutr 45]

Switching - I'm assuming <16 ports is ok for now. Would want something that could do local L3 switching if needed/desired. PoE tends to add expense that could, for now at least, be circumvented with a few wall-warts for much less cost. A Cisco SG-350-10 for $165 is nice. Some trumpet Mikrotik CRS or UBNT EdgeSwitch, but I need to see more track-record...

So that's what I would do. But things could vary, too; if there's no structured backhaul, or if PoE is/isn't of need, then some things might have to be trimmed down.. router/firewall CPU power... an L2 switch instead of L3... standalone APs or a cheaper mesh system, etc.

I'm going to buy a new Switch fanless, I was wondering if you can help me choose between these or can you recommend another one similar to these:

Switch page and price in amazon:

• Ubiquiti UniFi Switch 8 150W -- Amazon $196
• Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 8 150W -- Amazon $195
• NETGEAR GC510P -- Amazon $196
• Cisco SG350-10MP -- Amazon $234

Datasheet:

• Ubiquiti UniFi Switch 8 150W
• Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 8 150W
• NETGEAR GC510P
• Cisco SG350-10MP

• UniFi - Understanding PoE and How UniFi Devices are Powered