Wireless backhaul for two Asus RT-AX86U - good idea?

[Teppka]

I had bad luck with Asus ZenWiFi AX as I had lag spikes similar to few other users in this community. Sent it back and just setup a new Asus RT-AX86U. Also positioned it as close to the center of entrance floor as I could. I was really hoping one unit will be enough but with current tests two farthest rooms in the second floor can't even catch 5Hz signal and on 2.4Hz show significant speed drop. Since the rooter on the ground floor is located close to the ceiling, considering the angle of the upper floor I don't blame the signal not passing through that well. I'll play with antenna angles today but I'm not sure will have any crazy improvements.

Unfortunately at this moment wired backhaul is not possible to the upper floor without major remodeling. But it seems like I'll have to add another RT-AX86U as node sooner or later. It's position will be in closest proximity to the main rooter downstairs and I'm sure to have good 5Hz signal between the nodes (tested on ZenWiFi AX). RT-AX86U being a dual band router, Is adding one now using wireless 5Hz as backhaul (which will be shared for backhaul and devices) a good idea or wait till I can actually put a LAN cable through apartment for best performance?

I'm running latest version of Asuswrt.

Thanks

 

[KingBravery]

I also faced tha lag spike one time when Im using XT8 as main but it has been fixed after I setup it again. XT8 is good for wireless backhaul as it is triband. if using ax86u both in Aimesh, you might notice slow a bit when user is too much using same fronthaul + backhaul.

 

[Klueless]

With regards to fine tuning the positioning of your existing AX this Forum Stickie might be of some interest?

With regards to using a wireless backhaul between two (2) AX86Us the bigger issue comes to play when a user connects to the same radio that is backhauling to the router.

Let's call the main AX "R" (for Router) and the 2nd AX "N" (for Node) and let's use 5 GHz as the "backhaul" between the two. Now let's say a user connects to "N" at 2.4 GHz, things should zip along pretty well. Now let's say the user connects to "N" at 5 GHz, the same radio "N" uses to connect to "R" the router. The 5 GHz radio is shut off to the user while the "N" device relays packets back and forth to the "R" router. It's no longer if there's contention, it's that there will be contention. That is what "halves" the speed and adds latency (higher "ping" times).

Perhaps you want to take a look at wireless Access Points / "Extenders" rather than buying and trying to configure a 2nd AX to be such?

• Some APs (Extenders) come with a 3rd band to be used and dedicated as a wireless backhaul.
• Some dual band APs (e.g., Netgear) come with "Fast Lane". It allows you to dedicate one radio for the backhaul and the other for user connections only.
• Some (e.g., Linksys) come with "Cross Connect". It dynamically looks at what radio the user connected to and automagically uses the opposite radio as the backhaul to the router.

Good Luck!

(PS I almost forgot to tease you a little bit. Why is there always a way to run a cable to a far off Television but almost never a way to run a network cable : -)

 

[homeofwind]

With regards to fine tuning the positioning of your existing AX this Forum Stickie might be of some interest?

With regards to using a wireless backhaul between two (2) AX86Us the bigger issue comes to play when a user connects to the same radio that is backhauling to the router.

Let's call the main AX "R" (for Router) and the 2nd AX "N" (for Node) and let's use 5 GHz as the "backhaul" between the two. Now let's say a user connects to "N" at 2.4 GHz, things should zip along pretty well. Now let's say the user connects to "N" at 5 GHz, the same radio "N" uses to connect to "R" the router. The 5 GHz radio is shut off to the user while the "N" device relays packets back and forth to the "R" router. It's no longer if there's contention, it's that there will be contention. That is what "halves" the speed and adds latency (higher "ping" times).

Perhaps you want to take a look at wireless Access Points / "Extenders" rather than buying and trying to configure a 2nd AX to be such?

• Some APs (Extenders) come with a 3rd band to be used and dedicated as a wireless backhaul.
• Some dual band APs (e.g., Netgear) come with "Fast Lane". It allows you to dedicate one radio for the backhaul and the other for user connections only.
• Some (e.g., Linksys) come with "Cross Connect". It dynamically looks at what radio the user connected to and automagically uses the opposite radio as the backhaul to the router.

Good Luck!

(PS I almost forgot to tease you a little bit. Why is there always a way to run a cable to a far off belevision but almost never a way to run a network cable : -)

What if I run calbe from main router's LAN to node's WAN port? Is it a considered a cable backhaul or the cable of node needs to be in room's WAN port on the wall to get the best performance?

 

[Teppka]

@Klueless thanks for the feedback. We'll it's because TV cables were put in the walls when apartment building was during construction, putting a new cable now means opening channels in the walls, closing them after, painting entire room(s) etc. Not an easy thing to do in my part of the world

Range extender may work for me as I don't really need to use LAN ports of the node/extender. I'm also not comfortable using wireless backhaul for two Asus RT-AX86U considering it's a dual band and 5Hz will have to be shared for backhaul and clients.

I don't have much info regarding range extenders as I'm not sure how they will perform. I need to have better wireless coverage upstairs but I also need to have minimum latency as my Xbox console is located upstairs and will most probably get connected wirelessly to the extender as it will have stronger signal. I also use gaming features of RT-AX86U and am not sure how it will work with extender. Hence I was thinking of using another RT-AX86U as node assuming it will have best compatibility.

Another solution could probably be using smart switch (currently have two separate 2.54Hz and 5Hz) which will allow devices to switch to 2.4Hz in farther rooms. But I was advised against it in setup instructions by valuable members who are the part of the furniture Frankly speaking I don't really know what kind of disadvantage/issues will using 2.4Hz/5Hz in smart connect could bring.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Teppka]

I wander if 2.5G LAN port can be used on router to connect with LAN cable to the node? Also if backhaul is wired will the node hav same theoretical wireless speed and latency as if wireless device would've been connected to primary router?

 

[L&LD]

Two AX86U Aimesh @2.5G Ethernet backhaul possible? | SmallNetBuilder Forums

 

[Teppka]

I read it before posting, thanks. I wasn't looking for 2.4Hz backhaul as 2.4Hz airspace is insanely crowded in all rooms. Finally found a way for LAN backhaul which I will implement. Thanks.

 

[L&LD]

You still didn't read it correctly.

That link is to connect two RT-AX86U's over the 2.5GbE Ethernet Ports they have.

Works great here and with 'only' Cat5e cable (100' run).

 

[Teppka]

Exactly, didn't read it right, will do., will be using Cat6 for backhaul which I think should be plenty. My ISP speed is 200/10 which will probably never increase, do you think using 2.5g port will make any difference compared to WAN (switched to LAN)?

 

[L&LD]

No, I don't think it will with that ISP speed. But I would certainly test it.

Do you have a 2.5GbE switch with 4 or more ports to connect your two nodes with (and the rest of the wired network devices?

 

[Teppka]

Nope. I'm extremely limited with space. My ISP modem is in the entrance wardrobe, I had to drill a hole in the wall to have my primary router be connected to it and placed on the wall close to ceiling. I also connected 4 IoT devices hubs on the same wall which are connected by cable. The rest of devices are connected wirelessly, including my Xbox console upstairs. I will put a node (second RT-AX86U) in the stairway space in the second floor near the ceiling, it will be very difficult to access but it's the only place I can place it with cable backhaul connection to primary RT-AX86U. So no switches. Hence I will have to use either WAN as LAN or 2.5G LAN on primary for backhaul. Since it will be very difficult to access (will need 3m ladder) I'd prefer to make cable connection once and not do any testing.

 

[Teppka]

@L&LD I have all 4 LAN ports on my primary router occupied by IoT hubs. Need one extra for the node. Primary router is connected to ISP modem through LAN cable which is connected to WAN port. My ISP speed is 200/10. As far as I know I can use 2.5G port as WAN which will make WAN port of the router function as LAN port. But when I remove LAN cable form ISP modem from WAN port of the router to 2.5G port connection to the internet disappears. Can I use 2.5G port as WAN and if yes will WAN port function as LAN (to use for LAN backhaul with node). Do I need to make any changes in router settings?

Thanks

 

[L&LD]

Yes, you need to make changes in the GUI.

Go to WAN on the left-hand side tabs and then to the Dual Wan tab.

Select what you want as the Primary WAN.

 

[Teppka]

Thanks, does it now make WAN port work as LAN or do I have to change any settings for that? If yes can I now use it for cable backhaul?

 

[L&LD]

That I haven't tried, but I would assume so. Test and let us know too!

 

[Teppka]

Neeh, connected one of IoT hubs to WAN which indeed works as LAN just fine! Will use LAN1 for backhaul. Thanks again.

 

[Teppka]

Well, node installed. Cat7 LAN backhaul to LAN1 on router and WAN on node. WAN port on router works as LAN for IoT hub. Everything works fine. Thanks again for assistance.