Xbox360 wireless connection problem

[jphughan]

That's a good question. When all this first started for me I actually thought the internal adapter on the slim was faulty. I started looking up replacement cards but never could figure out what brand they used.

UPDATE: According to Oppo, the Wifi dongle is an Atheros AR9271 unit. And according to this admittedly sparse Wiki page, so is the Xbox 360's: http://www.wikidevi.com/wiki/Microsoft_Xbox_360_Internal_Wireless_Module_(1399). However, according to a photo of the module in this teardown guide, it appears to be a Marvell unit (the model is too small to identify). Is it possible Microsoft is using two different Wifi chips, in which case this could account for some people not being affected by this? If anyone who actually owns an Xbox 360 with Wifi wants to help confirm, this teardown guide shows how to get to it, and it looks pretty easy: http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/...29&tag=thumbnail-view-selector;get-photo-roto. It'd be interesting if both someone affected by this issue and someone unaffected could open their Xboxes to see what Wifi chipsets their units have.

The Xbox 360 external adapter appears to be an AR7010+AR9280 unit, so this issue doesn't seem to affect all Atheros devices at least. Has anyone tested using the EXTERNAL Xbox 360 adapter on 2.4 GHz to see whether the difference in behavior between the two units is purely due to chipset or whether you also need to be on 5 GHz to get solid performance?

 

[NeutralGold]

I would bet the answer is that they're at least from the same company, if not the exact same chip. The BDP-93's adapter is also an N adapter that can only do 2.4 GHz for what it's worth. Anyway, I've been running both my laptop and Blu-ray player wired for a while as an inconvenient workaround, but last night I switched my laptop to Wifi and kept the Blu-ray player on wired just to see if it this was an issue with how the router handles streaming over Wifi in general. It performed flawlessly. My laptop uses an Intel Wifi Link 5300 and runs on 5 GHz; I can test running it on 2.4 GHz tonight in case it's a router problem with streaming that only affects the 2.4 GHz band?

UPDATE: The Oppo Wifi dongle is an Atheros AR9271 unit. Now we just need someone to find out what chip the Xbox 360 uses....

I don't think that's it. I have 6 other devices aside from the xbox slim that stream movies from my movie server over wireless. I don't have any 5 ghz devices. Out of the 13 devices I have in my home, 2 are wired and the rest are on 2.4 ghz mixed n and g devices. All my devices meet expected throughput with the exception of the xbox slim.

If only that slim would work with my router, my little network would be perfect .

 

[NeutralGold]

UPDATE: According to Oppo, the Wifi dongle is an Atheros AR9271 unit. And according to this admittedly sparse Wiki page, so is the Xbox 360's: http://www.wikidevi.com/wiki/Microsoft_Xbox_360_Internal_Wireless_Module_(1399). The Xbox 360 external adapter appears to be an AR7010+AR9280 unit, so this issue doesn't seem to affect all Atheros devices at least. Has anyone tested using the EXTERNAL Xbox 360 adapter on 2.4 GHz to see whether the difference in behavior between the two units is purely due to chipset or whether you also need to be on 5 GHz to get solid performance?

I've tried the 2 external wireless adapters. I also have an elite. I used the external adapter on the elite and slim. It worked perfectly. I borrowed the adapters from friends for testing purposes not long after I found out about the slims faulty connection issue.

 

[jphughan]

I've tried the 2 external wireless adapters. I also have an elite. I used the external adapter on the elite and slim. It worked perfectly. I borrowed the adapters from friends for testing purposes not long after I found out about the slims faulty connection issue.

Were you testing on 2.4 GHz? If so then it's good to know this issue isn't related to the frequency; I guess it's just a chipset issue. And sorry I've been updating my post constantly, but I'm done now. The most recent version of my previous post has a bit more information that may prove helpful for ASUS to troubleshoot this.

 

[NeutralGold]

Were you testing on 2.4 GHz? If so then it's good to know this issue isn't related to the frequency; I guess it's just a chipset issue. And sorry I've been updating my post constantly, but I'm done now. The most recent version of my previous post has a bit more information that may prove helpful for ASUS to troubleshoot this.

Yeah, I only got it to test on the 2.4ghz band. I did how ever use the 5ghz band for a couple of hours just to check things out since I don't actually own any 5ghz devices .

I've watched your post, maybe we can get a rise out of Asus eventually. I'm hoping a few more of the folks on here that haven't posted much have also submitted another support form. The more of us that do that the better I think. I don't like being a hassle to anyone but this problems long overdue a fix.

Thanks for your contribution.

 

[jphughan]

Just sent this to ASUS through that VIP link, fwiw:

I have some additional information about the issue with poor streaming performance when using the RT-N66U to deliver content to an Xbox 360 using the 360's internal Wifi adapter. There is a long thread about this subject here: http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=7774. I found that thread because I'm seeing the exact same behavior using the Wifi dongle for my OPPO BDP-93 Blu-ray player. Even standard definition videos constantly lag, suffer audio dropouts, or freeze entirely. Switching to the player's wired connection resolves the issue, and even if my laptop (the source of the content) is on Wifi, the router continues to perform correctly; the issue only occurs when the Blu-ray player is connecting wirelessly, just like the Xbox 360.

Upon further research, I've learned that the chipset in the OPPO Wifi dongle is the Atheros AR9271, and at least some versions of the Xbox 360 also seem to have this chipset. Some Xbox 360 users even in the thread I mentioned above who also own the RT-N66U claim to be unaffected by this issue, but it also seems that some Xbox 360 units come with a Wifi chipset from Marvell, which could explain why not all Xbox 360s are affected. If I'm correct, it appears that the RT-N66U only exhibits poor steaming performance when sending a stream to a device using an AR9271 chipset. Hopefully this information helps you identify the cause and develop a firmware fix as soon as possible.

 

[jphughan]

The more I think about this, the more I wonder where the fix will have to come from: ASUS, Atheros, or Broadcom. If this is a problem that can be resolved with a driver update on at least one side, then I'm not sure which side makes sense. On the one hand, both the RT-N66U and RT-AC66U seem to exhibit this behavior despite the fact that they use different Broadcom chipsets, but given that ASUS has proprietary modifications to the Broadcom drivers for both, that might put the ball in their court -- but on the other hand, surely the ASUS drivers are based on Broadcom code rather than written from scratch, and if the two Broadcom chips use a common driver, perhaps this will be an issue for Broadcom to fix. It would be interesting to find out whether Netgear WNDR4500 owners are seeing this issue given that that router uses the same Broadcom Wifi chip as the RT-N66U.

The argument for Atheros delivering a fix would be that this particular chip has issues with multiple Broadcom router chips -- but again, thus far we only know for sure about two routers from the same vendor. Does anyone own (or know someone who owns) a Netgear WNDR4500? That would be an extremely useful data point under the circumstances and help put pressure on the appropriate party, since at the moment any side could say, "Well our product works perfectly well except when used with that one other product, so it must be their problem," and then nothing gets fixed.

 

[thiggins]

I have read through all this thread and have a few comments.

1) Klyken correctly identified the chipset in the Xbox 360 Slim internal Wi-Fi adapter (FCC ID C3K1400) as the Marvell 88W8786U. This is a single-chip 2.4 GHz 1x1 802.11bgn device. This means it has a best-case 150 Mbps link rate when linked to a router in 40 MHz bandwidth mode. Otherwise it will link at a maximum rate of 65 Mbps. This should support best-case real throughput of around 40 Mbps.

2) A link rate of 5.5 Mbps indicates that the adapter and router are falling back to using 802.11b link rates. So something is definitely wrong, but there is no way to determine whether the fault lies on the ASUS or Microsoft side or both. It's entirely possible that ASUS can't fix the problem on its side and is depending on Microsoft (or Marvell) to implement a fix.

3) Just because one device doesn't work doesn't mean that ASUS has produced a bad product. The 802.11 spec isn't as all-encompassing as you may think and there is plenty of room for spec interpretation and, of course, just plain improper implementation.

4) This isn't the first or last time that there will be a compatibility problem between a router and client device. At least in this case, you have an easy alternative of using a wireless Ethernet bridge or inexpensive router repurposed as a bridge by loading Tomato or DD-WRT. If this were a device like a smartphone or something else with no Ethernet port, you'd be SOL.

All that said, and I apologize is this is going back over ground already covered, has anyone tried the following (this is on ASUS 3.0.0.4.260)

Wireless - General page
- Unchecking the b/g protection checkbox
- Setting channel bandwidth to 20 MHz

Wireless- Professional page
- Changing the Preamble from Long to Auto or Short
- Disabling TX bursting

 

[jphughan]

1) Klyken correctly identified the chipset in the Xbox 360 Slim internal Wi-Fi adapter (FCC ID C3K1400) as the Marvell 88W8786U.

4) This isn't the first or last time that there will be a compatibility problem between a router and client device. At least in this case, you have an easy alternative of using a wireless Ethernet bridge or inexpensive router repurposed as a bridge by loading Tomato or DD-WRT. If this were a device like a smartphone or something else with no Ethernet port, you'd be SOL.

All that said, and I apologize is this is going back over ground already covered, has anyone tried the following (this is on ASUS 3.0.0.4.260)

Wireless - General page
- Unchecking the b/g protection checkbox
- Setting channel bandwidth to 20 MHz

Wireless- Professional page
- Changing the Preamble from Long to Auto or Short
- Disabling TX bursting

I'm curious whether Microsoft ever used the Atheros chip I mentioned rather than Marvell in the Xbox 360, either in an earlier/later revision or perhaps in the same production cycle. It's not uncommon for manufacturers to use similar parts from different vendors to mitigate the risk of a vendor supply issue causing a production stoppage. Dell does it all the time with things like hard drives, Apple with displays, and car manufacturers with tires, to name a few examples.

I tried those exact settings on my RT-N66U and continue to see streaming issues with my Blu-ray player.

While the workaround you suggest is indeed feasible, it's physically bulky and it requires another power outlet as well as more configuration and complexity that may be beyond the capabilities of some users. And of course it flat-out shouldn't be required in the first place.

 

[thiggins]

This is not an Atheros issue, jphughan. So please start another thread to discuss that so this thread doesn't get derailed.

Yes, workarounds have costs and inconveniences. But you can take a real-world approach or continue to dance with elephants.

 

[jphughan]

This is not an Atheros issue, jphughan. So please start another thread to discuss that so this thread doesn't get derailed.

Yes, workarounds have costs and inconveniences. But you can take a real-world approach or continue to dance with elephants.

I did start another thread for this issue, but when it got no attention (presumably because OPPO owners and RT-N66U owners are both relatively small in number, and thus even fewer people would have both), I did some searching and found the exact same issue described here with another device. How can you say with certainty that it isn't an Atheros issue? And even if you're correct and it's entirely an ASUS/Broadcom issue, I don't think I'm sidetracking the thread either by pointing out that there's another product which causes the router in question to exhibit the exact same behavior or by asking whether anyone knows whether the Netgear WNDR4500 has the same issues given that it uses the same Broadcom Wifi chip as the N66U.

As I stated above, I'm already using my own workaround in the form of wiring my Blu-ray player. I get that workarounds are a fact of life sometimes, but that doesn't mean that they're nearly as convenient or even attainable by everyone, and certainly not that the relevant vendors shouldn't deliver actual solutions.

 

[Warp9]

If only I had known!

Oh how I wish I would have found this thread a few days ago! I ordered the RT-N66U last Monday and installed it yesterday. I use my Xbox 360 S extensively for streaming recorded TV with Windows Media Center. With the new router streaming is impossible. I'm experiencing exactly what everyone else is reporting.

I appreciate all the experimenting people have done to try to get this working, but I'm afraid I'm probably just going to return the ASUS router and buy a different brand. I really wanted to like this router. Very disappointing, but this is a deal breaker for me.

 

[Klyken]

I saw a recent auction listing for the 360 S integrated wifi card. You could clearly see the Marvell chip as per the teardown.

 

[mozbius]

The way I did mine was setup my WRT54G in client mode and connected the xbox ethernet cable to it. I then used my WRT54G in client mode to connect over wireless to the N66U. Basically just using my WRT54G as a wireless network card for my xbox. You're stuck at wireless G speeds, but I can stream HD Video from 3 rooms away just fine.

HD video is limited to 720p video though. If I stream 1080p I start having video problems. Probably from the wireless G bandwidth limitations.

I'm sure they'll eventually fix it as long as it's a problem on their end. But I think it will be much later on as we seem to be a small group.

I think that I don't have much choice but to do the same. Having wires all over the place is a no go for me... What firmware is on your Wrt54g?

 

[jphughan]

Oh how I wish I would have found this thread a few days ago! I ordered the RT-N66U last Monday and installed it yesterday. I use my Xbox 360 S extensively for streaming recorded TV with Windows Media Center. With the new router streaming is impossible. I'm experiencing exactly what everyone else is reporting.

I appreciate all the experimenting people have done to try to get this working, but I'm afraid I'm probably just going to return the ASUS router and buy a different brand. I really wanted to like this router. Very disappointing, but this is a deal breaker for me.

Honestly, this router is so fantastic that I would seriously consider buying the Xbox external adapter in order to keep it and retain solid streaming -- or perhaps wait a week or two since it's been a while since ASUS released a firmware update (after several months of releasing updates once per month), and considering that they've known about this issue for QUITE a while, a fix may be forthcoming shortly. If neither the external adapter nor waiting are an option, then the next best router is probably the Netgear WNDR4500, which has very similar internals to the N66U but doesn't seem to offer as much range or speed.

 

[NeutralGold]

I think that I don't have much choice but to do the same. Having wires all over the place is a no go for me... What firmware is on your Wrt54g?

I have a v2 with Tomato acting as a client for the xbox. DD-WRT works just as well. But I prefer Tomato's interface.

 

[Alexanderdkb]

Revolution - we will not take this lying down!

Though I'm not one to argue that when you're given a lemon make lemonade, a flagship router should not have compatibility issues with one of the most popular wireless clients used for streaming video.

It is unacceptable; spending more money to resolve the issue is nonsense. As stated previously, any other router I've owned or used in my home has performed this basic functionality without a hitch.

Its one thing to post on their support forum, but there is no guaranteed impact.

Personally? I will multitask at work and call their support center as many times as I can to complain about the issue.

Every call costs them money.
Every call creates a record and will fall within any metrics they measure.

I will also be sending an email to the author of every positive review of this device to have them update the review to reflect this issue.

It is unsettling to see more and more users duped into a purchase of something that isn't working, and this is one of the few places on the web to find out about it.

Spread the word!

Don't settle for this, your hard earned money that was spent on this product is an extension of yourself and they are disrespecting us all by being mute about the issue.

If they want to keep quiet so their sales aren't impacted, then we need to be the ones to tell the world.


Let's make some noise!

 

[mozbius]

Though I'm not one to argue that when you're given a lemon make lemonade, a flagship router should not have compatibility issues with one of the most popular wireless clients used for streaming video.

It is unacceptable; spending more money to resolve the issue is nonsense. As stated previously, any other router I've owned or used in my home has performed this basic functionality without a hitch.

Its one thing to post on their support forum, but there is no guaranteed impact.

Personally? I will multitask at work and call their support center as many times as I can to complain about the issue.

Every call costs them money.
Every call creates a record and will fall within any metrics they measure.

I will also be sending an email to the author of every positive review of this device to have them update the review to reflect this issue.

It is unsettling to see more and more users duped into a purchase of something that isn't working, and this is one of the few places on the web to find out about it.

Spread the word!

Don't settle for this, your hard earned money that was spent on this product is an extension of yourself and they are disrespecting us all by being mute about the issue.

If they want to keep quiet so their sales aren't impacted, then we need to be the ones to tell the world.


Let's make some noise!

I have to admit that communicating with all positive reviewers is actually an idea that makes sense.

 

[Warp9]

There might be hope...

I contacted Asus Support about this problem a couple days ago. They got back to me and said the fix would be in the next firmware update.

No indication as to when it might be available. So, take that for what it's worth....

In any case, I do believe that if enough people contact them about this issue it will eventually get resolved. If you haven't yet contacted Asus Support about this, please do so!

 

[Bad Teddy]

Let's all remember post #119, because if that doesn't happen... floodgates open.