CakeQOS CakeQOS-Merlin

[Treadler]

Thanks, but I'm disappointed to see a C for BufferBloat.

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Experimentation is your friend!

 

[Kingp1n]

Thanks, but I'm disappointed to see a C for BufferBloat.

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For me I couldn't use unlimited speeds. I get better results when I input a specific number vs unlimited. Start off and try putting 85% of your actual speeds and adjust from there.

 

[Morris]

OK, I'll try 30ms. But I'd still like the QOS categories to work properly. How can I make that happen?

BTW, where can I go to test buffer bloat to see my score (A, A+, etc)?

Traffic would need to be tagged by the sender and it's not going to happen for too many sources. It is also not in the spirit of how Cake QOS works. Use best effort and let the nature of the different types of traffic will do it superbly. Keep you setup simple! Just set the following options:
Upload and download speed, Queuing discipline: Best Effort, Network type (enthernet, dsl, etc.). Do not use any other options. See this video to understand why:

Morris

 

[heysoundude]

That was an awesome presentation.

 

[heysoundude]

OK, I'll try 30ms. But I'd still like the QOS categories to work properly. How can I make that happen?

with Flex-QoS.

 

[TonyK132]

with Flex-QoS.

Not with cake?

 

[Morris]

Not with cake?

Flex classifies traffic and then uses priority queues. Cake with Diff4 can use queues if something else classifies packets and tags them. Best effort dose not need queues to provide smooth QOS. Adding queues is simply more overhead and should only be attempted in an oversubscribed situation and while it will help it will not make all applications work as packets must be dropped.

 

[TonyK132]

I just set my speeds to be 90% of the tested values, and set the priority to Besteffort. I now have A+ across the board. Thanks for everyone for your help.

 

[askan7]

Guys, I've found another issue with QOS.
Steam downloads buffer like crazy, and this is with both cake and fq-codel. Any ideas? I'm talking ~80ms bufferbloat with spikes to ~200ms. 90% bandwith limit. Only steam does this, normal downloads increase ping by around 4ms.
Only fix i found was to limit to 70% bandwidth and since I'm running adsl2+ with only 12/1 this is not really a viable solution.

Is this because my bridged isp's router/modem is trash? Even torrents don't bufferbloat like this .

 

[Morris]

Guys, I've found another issue with QOS.
Steam downloads buffer like crazy, and this is with both cake and fq-codel. Any ideas? I'm talking ~80ms bufferbloat with spikes to ~200ms. 90% bandwith limit. Only steam does this, normal downloads increase ping by around 4ms.
Only fix i found was to limit to 70% bandwidth and since I'm running adsl2+ with only 12/1 this is not really a viable solution.

Is this because my bridged isp's router/modem is trash? Even torrents don't bufferbloat like this .

When are you going to change your modem?

 

[askan7]

When are you going to change your modem?

I really didn't want to, because isp support and stuff. But I've contacted my isp about some issues with the adsl line. It has a been a bit unstable with noise margins, I used to have 15mbps, now it's at 12mbps because of that.
I'll see if they replace it for me, they have some newer models.
Also called them about fiber, because I've had a fiber junction right by my house, yet they say fiber it's not available...

You think this might be the modem?

 

[heysoundude]

Who is your ISP?
a 20% drop in speeds like that probably isn't your modem.
Noise margins- that probably has more to do with the age/integrity of the cable coming to your house (and the terminations at each end) than the modem. It may even be systemic.
If they've "turned up" the signal strength at their end as far as they're happy to, have them run a line test. if the noise is that bad, they need to determine WHERE in the cabling between the modems at each end of your connection the problem is, WHY there's a problem, and then repair it.
I live in a ~60 yr old house, and the cable between here and their box and the box itself had both seen better days. they replaced both, because I was getting a noisy connection after it rained. Since that repair, I get at or slightly above (depending on the speedtest you use) the speeds I pay for.
Trying to adjust QoS with that going on would've been...frustrating.

 

[askan7]

Who is your ISP?
a 20% drop in speeds like that probably isn't your modem.
Noise margins- that probably has more to do with the age/integrity of the cable coming to your house (and the terminations at each end) than the modem. It may even be systemic.
If they've "turned up" the signal strength at their end as far as they're happy to, have them run a line test. if the noise is that bad, they need to determine WHERE in the cabling between the modems at each end of your connection the problem is, WHY there's a problem, and then repair it.
I live in a ~60 yr old house, and the cable between here and their box and the box itself had both seen better days. they replaced both, because I was getting a noisy connection after it rained. Since that repair, I get at or slightly above (depending on the speedtest you use) the speeds I pay for.
Trying to adjust QoS with that going on would've been...frustrating.

MEO (Altice Portugal) is my ISP. My speeds are stable at 12/1, but noise margins range from 10 to 16. And that's why I can't have 15mbps anymore, they control at what speeds the modem syncs.

But my main issue is bufferbloat, like i described in the post above. Steam causing bufferbloat, to the point I have to lock bandwidth to 70% for it to go away, Other downloads don't do this.

Also they don't lock speeds on ADSL. If my line was good enough I could have 24mbps down.

 

[heysoundude]

MEO (Altice Portugal) is my ISP. My speeds are stable at 12/1, but noise margins range from 10 to 16. And that's why I can't have 15mbps anymore, they control at what speeds the modem syncs.

But my main issue is bufferbloat, like i described in the post above. I find strange steam causing soo much bufferbloat, to the point I have to lock bandwith to 70% of max for it to go away, Other downloads don't do this.

Also they don't lock speeds on ADSL. If my line was good enough I could have 24mbps down.

Bufferbloat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Read that ^ please.

You have bufferbloat because of a noisy line/connection. All the tweaking of QoS and replacing modems in the world won't help you. The signal to noise ratio (the difference between the signal voltage and the residual noise) on the line between you and your ISP is on the low side for a proper, reliable, jitter/bufferbloat-free connection and the speeds that come with it. 10-16 dB of difference is worse than... AM radio. As a guess, you probably need 20-30dB (or more! 40? 50?) of a noise margin (meaning how far below the signal the noise on the line is) to get close to the 24Mbps that's possible from your ISP.

This is your issue - a bad line. Yes, it works pretty well most of the time, but it can work much better. you know that or you wouldn't be here trying to make it better.

 

[askan7]

Bufferbloat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Read that ^ please.

You have bufferbloat because of a noisy line/connection. All the tweaking of QoS and replacing modems in the world won't help you. The signal to noise ratio (the difference between the signal voltage and the residual noise) on the line between you and your ISP is on the low side for a proper, reliable, jitter/bufferbloat-free connection and the speeds that come with it. 10-16 dB of difference is worse than... AM radio. As a guess, you probably need 20-30dB (or more! 40? 50?) of a noise margin (meaning how far below the signal the noise on the line is) to get close to the 24Mbps that's possible from your ISP.

This is your issue - a bad line. Yes, it works pretty well most of the time, but it can work much better. you know that or you wouldn't be here trying to make it better.

You might be right, I have to limit it at 8.5mbps instead of 10mbps (10% lower bandwidth on speedtest) to avoid bufferbloat on steam and torrents. 10mbps limit is enough to avoid all bufferbloat on dslreports, fast-com, normal downalods, windows update, origin, Netflix, youtube, etc.


I have to pressure my ISP... It feels bad to have a fiber junction and cables going over my property yet they say it's impossible to install fiber where i live
Fiber on my ISP allows for 1000/400mbps and it's not that expensive.

 

[heysoundude]

Perhaps by pressuring them to look into repairing your line, they might find excuses to upgrade the service to your house to fiber.
the incumbent copper phone line company my ISP leases the lines from to provide me service here in Canada is slowly but surely making concessions, and this current crisis is helping get the government on my ISP's (and my) side in this argument. The copper and fibre now come to the same place, maybe 15m from my house, and this last step will take the longest until there is the logical reason to.

 

[Kingp1n]

Roadmap

• Additional model support (HND)
• amtm addition

Item(s) on roadmap do not indicate commitment to implement. Best spot for tracking would be Github Issues.

Is the future of Cake still in the works to come to amtm? Just curious....

 

[heysoundude]

Is the future of Cake still in the works to come to amtm? Just curious....

It'll pop up eventually, I'm sure; I'm not sure how much interfacing needs to happen between the devs/maintainers of amtm and cake to make it happen, though, so until THEY make it a priority...
I think the general consensus is to give @thelonelycoder the space to make the changes to his code in his own time, as necessary with Merlin's firmware.

 

[dave14305]

Has anyone ever figured out how to build CAKE out-of-tree like @Odkrys did before he moved on? This seems to be the project's Achilles heel if further updates are ever needed.

 

[thelonelycoder]

Is the future of Cake still in the works to come to amtm? Just curious....

It'll pop up eventually, I'm sure; I'm not sure how much interfacing needs to happen between the devs/maintainers of amtm and cake to make it happen, though, so until THEY make it a priority...
I think the general consensus is to give @thelonelycoder the space to make the changes to his code in his own time, as necessary with Merlin's firmware.

It's not up to me. OP has to place the request and then I'll look into it if a script is compatible and meets the requirements for amtm.
To me it looks the project has stalled for some reason.