Dual-Band Router with Tri-Band Nodes

[AlleyCat]

Hello everyone, I’m considering a 2-pack of AX92Us to replace a pair of AC86Us (configured as AiMesh nodes). The primary router is an AX88U. All nodes are connected to the AX88U via wired backhaul.

The AX88U is dual-band, whereas the AX92U is Tri-Band, so I’m wondering if both 5GHz radios (5GHz-1 + 5GHz-2) on the 92U nodes will be enabled after they’ve been meshed with my dual-band AX88U? If not, then there’s no point in me buying tri-band routers only to be used as dual-band mesh nodes.

Perhaps two dual-band AX58Us would pair better with the AX88U? Or possibly the AX68U or AX86U?

Any thoughts or suggestions graciously appreciated.

 

[disjt]

This post mentions that using tri-band as the router and dual-band as the nodes will convert the whole mesh to dual-band. So I suppose dual-band as router and tri-band as nodes will produce the same result. I remember seeing other old threads on this that may confirm the dual-band router with tri-band nodes.

 

[AlleyCat]

This post mentions that using tri-band as the router and dual-band as the nodes will convert the whole mesh to dual-band. So I suppose dual-band as router and tri-band as nodes will produce the same result. I remember seeing other old threads on this that may confirm the dual-band router with tri-band nodes.

Ahh I should've followed up on that thread instead. I also read here that @Gustour meshed his AX88U router with two XT8 nodes over wired backhauls; thus freeing up the 5GHz-2 radios on the XT8s to serve wireless client devices. Perhaps Gustour could advise?

 

[mikeray]

[AiMesh] What is Dedicated Wireless Backhaul(DWB)? How does it work? | Official Support | ASUS USA

This says a dedicated wireless backhaul will be established between a dual-band & tri-band node or router, that's nice

 

[AlleyCat]

[AiMesh] What is Dedicated Wireless Backhaul(DWB)? How does it work? | Official Support | ASUS USA

This says a dedicated wireless backhaul will be established between a dual-band & tri-band node or router, that's nice

That's right, 5GHz-2 is used for wireless backhaul IF the child nodes are not wired to the parent router. So, I assume that if a wired backhaul is used instead, then 5GHz-2 becomes available for wifi clients to use, and that AiMesh enables all three bands, with the same SSID & Password; and that 5GHz-2 radios on the tri-band child nodes can be easily managed from a dual-band parent node.

 

[minhgi]

get yourself AX11000 to match up with the XA6100. Best combo tested. I use all almost different combination of asus arouter and aimesh.

 

[Rocketboy235]

That's right, 5GHz-2 is used for wireless backhaul IF the child nodes are not wired to the parent router. So, I assume that if a wired backhaul is used instead, then 5GHz-2 becomes available for wifi clients to use, and that AiMesh enables all three bands, with the same SSID & Password; and that 5GHz-2 radios on the tri-band child nodes can be easily managed from a dual-band parent node.

Sorry for the necro but I figured I add my two cents to this post in case someone else comes across this and become aware of possible issues. So in my experience, I just tried this out with an AX86U Pro (dual band AX) as the primary router and with a AX92U router as an AiMesh node. Did an ethernet backhaul between the two and when I checked the WiFi connection with my laptop with the node off and on. I saw that it switched from WiFi 6 (AX) to WiFi 5 (AC) when the node is online. So unless I am missing something, this tells me that even if ethernet backhaul, if the primary router is only dual band, then there doesn't seem to be an easy way to make the 2nd 5GHz band available (AX) on the node router.

Very weird that it would not resort to the faster AX band wifi for 5GHz and only use the AC (with speed capped at 866 mbps). The node only had two bands available which makes sense since the primary router was only dual band. There was no way to configure three bands since primary router (dual band) settings is the leader of the network.

Not sure if your experience is widely different than mine but this is what I saw. Also, it seemed like the network was just more unstable (some devices not connecting properly or limited by speeds to as slow as 100 mbps) in this configuration (sometimes it works fine after a few restarts but the issue would come back the next time it was rebooted) so I think I'll be doing AX92U as a primary, and a second AX92U as a node so I can then configure all three bands from the primary router.

 

[tgl]

Yeah, there is a lot of lore supporting the theory that AIMesh can't cope with configuring radios on the nodes when there are not corresponding radios on the primary. It's not clear whether it resets them to some-default-or-other or just leaves them as they were, but what is certain is that you have no direct control over those radios via the primary's GUI.

 

[Rocketboy235]

Yeah, actually, just realized I haven't tried this with smart connect where it just makes them all the same SSID so I wonder if that would be any different
Though I would prefer separate SSIDs for each band anyway

 

[Sgamat]

Sorry for the necro but I figured I add my two cents to this post in case someone else comes across this and become aware of possible issues. So in my experience, I just tried this out with an AX86U Pro (dual band AX) as the primary router and with a AX92U router as an AiMesh node. Did an ethernet backhaul between the two and when I checked the WiFi connection with my laptop with the node off and on. I saw that it switched from WiFi 6 (AX) to WiFi 5 (AC) when the node is online. So unless I am missing something, this tells me that even if ethernet backhaul, if the primary router is only dual band, then there doesn't seem to be an easy way to make the 2nd 5GHz band available (AX) on the node router.

Very weird that it would not resort to the faster AX band wifi for 5GHz and only use the AC (with speed capped at 866 mbps). The node only had two bands available which makes sense since the primary router was only dual band. There was no way to configure three bands since primary router (dual band) settings is the leader of the network.

Not sure if your experience is widely different than mine but this is what I saw. Also, it seemed like the network was just more unstable (some devices not connecting properly or limited by speeds to as slow as 100 mbps) in this configuration (sometimes it works fine after a few restarts but the issue would come back the next time it was rebooted) so I think I'll be doing AX92U as a primary, and a second AX92U as a node so I can then configure all three bands from the primary router.

The reason why you are getting AC 866mbps on your ax92u node is because ax92u 5ghz-1 is ac only at 866mbps, while 5ghz-2 is ax at 4804mbps. If you want to have ax backhaul to ax86u, you need to go into aimesh settings and set the backhaul priority to 5ghz-2.

 

[Rocketboy235]

The reason why you are getting AC 866mbps on your ax92u node is because ax92u 5ghz-1 is ac only at 866mbps, while 5ghz-2 is ax at 4804mbps. If you want to have ax backhaul to ax86u, you need to go into aimesh settings and set the backhaul priority to 5ghz-2.

Yep, that's correct. It was why I mentioned it actually

 

[Rocketboy235]

So after pulling out the AX86U pro again to test this out. I found out smart connect does not really do anything here which I guess might be no surprise.

I did find out that I could individually turn on/off the radios on each node separately so that was neat. Have to turn off the primary router radios through the Wireless Professional page settings but you can turn off individual radios on the AiMesh nodes on the AiMesh page. I saw that there was an option to turn on/off the 5G-2 band on the AiMesh page for the particular AX92U node but unfortunately no SSID showed up for 5G2. I do see the 5G2 light on the AX92U turn on however. I was wondering if maybe it's still being broadcasted but is hidden. Might make sense that ASUS only intends to have it be used for backhaul linking between nodes.

I then did a bit more research and I guess someone already encountered this kind of issue which I guess shouldn't be surprising since there are others who probably went through this and tried it out.
Seems like you could try to enable it via SSH which I tried but unfortunately no luck there. NVRAM settings after committed just revert after reset so they aren't sticking. I guess that trick being 4 years old might be outdated and ASUS did something to patch that. (Currently running Merlin on the AX92U)
So unfortunately that was a no go which is talked about in the 2nd forum thread link below.

AX88U main router with AX92U AiMesh nodes cannot use Wifi 6

I can use Wifi6 on AX88U connected clients fine, but when I switch to AX92U, it always uses only AC. AX92U uses the 2nd 5GHz channel as backhaul link. This is also the one which supports AX. And there is a FAQ page explaining how to get the network to work with AX for clients, instead for...

www.snbforums.com

RT-AX88U and RT-AX92U as AiMesh node: No AX mode

Hello, Yesterday my RT-AX92U unit arrived and I want to deploy it as a AiMesh unit. I already have a RT-AX88U, which works fine. The only thing is that WIFI coverage at the back of my house is bad, therefore I bought the AX92U. I use a Samsung Galaxy S10 and that phone is compatible with...

www.snbforums.com

In any case, I'll probably just stick to using AX92U as primary and a second as a node. Will use the AX86U pro for a separate network...
More stable that way as well which isn't really anything new.

Hope my little research has helped anyone here who might also be trying to figure this out though probably not many seeing that the AX92U is an oddball router that has been EOL by ASUS not long ago.
Wish ASUS could allow 5G-2 to be accessible in this case via AiMesh by offering more customization but I guess not.

 

[Sgamat]

Yep, that's correct. It was why I mentioned it actually

You need to understand that for any brand tri band router, 5ghz-1 only can access lower channels 36, 40, 44, 48, while 5ghz-2 only can access upper channels 149 , 153, 157, 161. Dual band router can have lower and upper channels. So in order for dual/tri band mesh network to work, only 2 bands are available to use, ie, 2.4ghz and 5ghz-1 lower channels. You can not have 5ghz-2 to show its ssid.

But since you are using ethernet backhaul, and asus aimesh is only 802.11kv, you can set the ax86u primary router standalone, ie, router mode, smart connect off, fix a lower channel for 5ghz-1. Then for the ax92u, set it to AP mode, 5ghz-1 same ssid and channel as ax86u, and you can set whatever ssid and upper channel for 5ghz-2, and you can have 3 bands in that room for ax92u. Only thing you lose out will be node control from ax86u and probably slight delay in switching from ax86u to ax92u when roaming, but this can be tuned by lowering the power of 5ghz-1 in professional settings.

 

[Rocketboy235]

You need to understand that for any brand tri band router, 5ghz-1 only can access lower channels 36, 40, 44, 48, while 5ghz-2 only can access upper channels 149 , 153, 157, 161. Dual band router can have lower and upper channels. So in order for dual/tri band mesh network to work, only 2 bands are available to use, ie, 2.4ghz and 5ghz-1 lower channels. You can not have 5ghz-2 to show its ssid.

Yeah, that's what I figured when I was trying out the triband routers for the first time with the first 5 ghz band being able to only do lower channels and the second 5 ghz band being able to do the upper channels. However, when you say only 2 bands are available to use in a dual/tri band mesh network, that only kind of applies when the dual band router is the primary router with the triband as a node. In my experience and testing, I have all 3 bands available on the triband router when the triband router is the primary router and the dual band is the node. Obviously the dual band won't do three bands but at least the triband router will have no issue showing 3 bands...

Right now I am doing AX92U as primary, AX92U as a node, and an AC86U as a node.

Also, based on what I read earlier in the links I found, some people had success in getting it to work with the triband after doing some CLI commands but you are right that it won't show the SSID (is hidden). Actually, after looking through that old thread again, it seems like a person also had trouble trying to get it to work so the workaround probably never really worked well anyway if at all later in the thread.

But since you are using ethernet backhaul, and asus aimesh is only 802.11kv, you can set the ax86u primary router standalone, ie, router mode, smart connect off, fix a lower channel for 5ghz-1. Then for the ax92u, set it to AP mode, 5ghz-1 same ssid and channel as ax86u, and you can set whatever ssid and upper channel for 5ghz-2, and you can have 3 bands in that room for ax92u. Only thing you lose out will be node control from ax86u and probably slight delay in switching from ax86u to ax92u when roaming, but this can be tuned by lowering the power of 5ghz-1 in professional settings.

Right, I could just make it an AP and forego the AiMesh route. Thanks. I probably will stick to what I have though with the two AX92U (one as a primary and the other a node) and a dual band as a node since I had some weird 100 mbps speed capping with the AX86U Pro as a primary router. Maybe that is just an artifact of AiMesh though and wouldn't be an issue when doing AP mode instead, who knows.

 

[Aphonic]

Hi all? Jumping in a bit late here but wondering the same thing - and a bit confused.

I have a dsl-ax82u that I need to be connected to the phone line, in a place that doesn’t need much WiFi (living room).

Using ASU’s mesh if I buy a tri band can I use the 5ghz on the dual band to connect to 5ghz-2 on the tri band for a dedicated backhaul?

This would leave 2.4 for clients on the dsl router and allow 5ghz from the new tri band, helping serve the rest of the house with more speed that simple dual to dual band front haul setup, without having to spend as much.

Thanks for the additional clarity - the previously linked page suggests using the dual band router and adding a tri band node will create a dedicated wireless backhaul, but the posts here seem to contradict it.

 

[glens]

In "mesh" mode, I believe, when the controlling unit has less capability than a node, that node's extra ability is not "controllable" thus remains unusable.

It /may/ be that if you set up the tri-radio unit as a "media bridge" back to the router that you'll then be able to use both the remaining radios normally.

 

[tgl]

It /may/ be that if you set up the tri-radio unit as a "media bridge" back to the router that you'll then be able to use both the remaining radios normally.

Doubt it. IME, a unit in media bridge mode does not broadcast any SSID. It acts purely as a wireless client and passes traffic on behalf of the wired machines attached to its LAN ports.

Basically, what you need to do to make AIMesh work is to ensure that the most-capable router is the root node. Swap 'em if you have to.

 

[Aphonic]

So why would ASUS list it as wireless backhaul? Do you think they mean for clients wired in?

 

[Kalis909]

I have 3 XT8, 2 of them wired, the other over wifi on 5ghz-2 and one xds6 over wifi on 5ghz to one of the wired xt8.

 

[Aphonic]

I have 3 XT8, 2 of them wired, the other over wifi on 5ghz-2 and one xds6 over wifi on 5ghz to one of the wired xt8.

Is the xds6 dual band then?

I received my xt9’s today - enabled smart connect on my ax82u and then took the second xt9 node (the one without the “start with me” sticker) and associated it to the existing network. It looks like it is using the 5ghz backhaul, but I’m new to the wireless backhaul stuff so maybe I’m missing something. Screens attached.

The limitation here should be that the ax82u can only serve at 2.4ghz,right? That would be fine with me as everything intensive can be wired.

Opinions / confirmation appreciated!

Edit - looks like the long pic is very compressed, if you need that chopped up to form an opinion let me know and I’ll do so, but you can see that 2.4, 5-1, and 5-2 are all sending / receiving.