"Fun" with SAMBA on XT8 Mesh LAN (It's not working!)

[LouisRedux]

Two upfront confessions:

1. I am a complete noob with this topic, and whilst I am IT literate, a lot of the relevant networking terminology I just don't know (For example: with as simple a thing as "\\server\share" I'm not sure exactly what each thing is, even though it's obvious! Don't get me wrong, I have an idea, but not enough of one to be sure I'm getting things 100% right. So I experiment, and nothing so far has worked). It's a gaping hole in my IT knowledge. This leads to confession two...
2. I have searched for answers but the ones I have found are either confusing or antique. I have spent days trying to fix this but I am insufficiently expert to tell good ideas from bad, and having had many IT troubles recently I am very reluctant to play with things like the registry editor etc (I'm usually relatively competent, this is just unfamiliar territory). Please be gentle!

Context:

• I have recently set up a home mesh network using three ASUS XT8 units (wifi backhaul, Windows 11 Pro). I have attached two 5 TB HDDs, one to each of the wireless nodes. They seem to behave exactly like the test USB drive I plugged directly into the router, so I don't think the router/node difference is the problem. All firmware, BIOS, software, drivers etc are up to date, I'm using my normal Windows account (full admin privileges), and I'm also using the only ASUS router account I have (again, admin).
• I managed to get my PC to "see" the relevant HDDs using the SAMBA set up in the ASUS router software They are listed under "Network" as network drives and are inaccessable. Every attempt gets the "The device or resource (PC name) is not set up to accept connections on port "The File and printer sharing (SMB)"" error.
• I have set up FTP access and am able to successfully (it seems) upload files to the drives using Filezilla.

Problem:

• What I really want to do is use SAMBA and map the drives as network places.
• I have tried to add/modify user permissions both at the "ASUS software" side and the "Windows properties" side to no avail. The folders/drives don't have "properties" options in the right click menu of Windows Explorer.
• As an experiment, I partitioned the drives into 2 x ~2 TB and 1 x ~1 TB partitions (because of this: https://www.asus.com/uk/support/FAQ/1042680) and there appeared to be no difference in access between that and the single 5 TB partition drives. I have formatted the drives using every format I can lay my hands on, but NTFS has proven the most stable. I have returned the drives to 5 TB single partitions using NTFS.
• I have taken every suggestion I have found re: network settings from the Windows side, followed every set up guide and manual I have got my hands on, played with SMBv1 permissions (which given security issues, I have not left these on and am reluctant to use them), used guest/anonymous logons, disabled TLS (in FTP menu), created folders/users everything I can think of. I've even been to dark places on YouTube and come out a changed person!
• From searching I found that Merlin/gnuton firmware helps with SAMBA issues, so that is my next move. I intend to use modified firmware from here: https://gnuton.github.io/asuswrt-merlin.ng/ (the version for ZenWiFi XT8 / RT-AX95Q available from the downloads page).
  • I am not sure precisely how to update the firmware with these files, presumably I use the manual update option from the ASUS software I have used to update the official firmware. The file formats are different however, and I tried using the "w" file (based on found info) and it was taking so long I lost my sang froid, and rebooted the router. The router is working fine so I assume nothing actually happened.

So, how the heck* can I use the SAMBA method for accessing my USB drives on my LAN?

Apologies for what is probably a very basic question, but any help would be very gratefully appreciated.

*Not the word I am thinking. I'm ~2 steps from sacrificing a small animal on the router!

 

[LouisRedux]

P.S. I won't be using Merlin/gnuton because the current version isn't compatible with the Zenwifi XT8 (V2) router, just the v1.

I have the correct ASUS firmware for V2 installed.

 

[sfx2000]

IIRC - the Samba version in the stock firmware is pretty old, and only did SMB1, which is deprecated in Win10, and I'm not certain if SMB1 is even supported in Win11...

The USB share capability is kind of a marketing checkbox feature - it's not really intended to be a NAS host - there are better solutions to be had...

 

[LouisRedux]

IIRC - the Samba version in the stock firmware is pretty old, and only did SMB1, which is deprecated in Win10, and I'm not certain if SMB1 is even supported in Win11...

The USB share capability is kind of a marketing checkbox feature - it's not really intended to be a NAS host - there are better solutions to be had...

Thanks sfx2000.

I'd read as much elsewhere, and although slow, the FTP service at least works. I also have a Synology NAS ( ~4 TB RAID-1 DS218+) on my LAN that I use as a proper NAS, and I am going to use to be my permanent local backup, now that cloud services for media are so much better than when I bought it. I just had 10 TB of storage hanging about after a recent upgrade, so I thought I'd put it to use. Over various computer crashes, 1 PC death and replacement, in the last ~10 years I've amassed such a huge number of copies of data/back ups, I was just going to use these LAN drives as storage spaces for files while I de-duplicated/slimmed everything down. I have cloud backup with iDrive which I know has a file de-duplicate function, I'm just paranoid! Some of this is spectacularly important work data, as well as the usual family photos etc.

It's possible to enable SMBv1 in Win 11 Pro, and I did, but I disabled it again over the security concerns. Whilst, yes, there are better NAS type options (we're into more familiar territory for me now!), can you think of a way to get this method working? Or am I limited to SMBv1 (which didn't really work, but might be worth another bash...)

 

[chris2kari]

SMB1 whilst a perfectly reasonable solution on a home LAN in the past, is deprecated these days on Linux, Mac, BSD & other operating systems.

Leave SMB sharing turned off on your Asus router. You're wasting your time.

If you must use file sharing on your router then use FTP.

 

[LouisRedux]

SMB1 whilst a perfectly reasonable solution on a home LAN in the past, is deprecated these days on Linux, Mac, BSD & other operating systems.

Leave SMB sharing turned off on your Asus router. You're wasting your time.

If you must use file sharing on your router then use FTP.

Cheers, chris2kari,

Yeah, I "discovered" the deprecation ;-) I'll keep using FTP via FileZilla.

Regarding using file sharing on a home LAN via the router, I presume the concerns are based around security. Are there any tips you (or anyone can give me) on that topic?

I have:

- Disabled WAN access
- Enabled the

 

[LouisRedux]

Oops! That posted as Chrome crashed.

- Enabled AiProtection (dirty data stealing )&(**6%*)0s)
- Enabled Firewall
- Disabled WPS
- Drives are attached to nodes not router (if that makes any difference)
- Drives are not accessible over WAN, (good) password protected, TLS in use etc
- No sensitive files are stored on these drives (important, not sensitive)

Essentially, I've done as much as I know how to do.

Any tips on making them more secure will be gratefully received (and no "don't use them like that" doesn't count as a proper tip! But if that's the answer, feel free to tell me why).

 

[kildare]

I also have a Synology NAS ( ~4 TB RAID-1 DS218+) on my LAN that I use as a proper NAS, and I am going to use to be my permanent local backup

Why not connecting your USB HDDs directly to the Synology NAS ?

 

[LouisRedux]

Why not connecting your USB HDDs directly to the Synology NAS ?

Thanks, Kildare.

That was the first thing I tried (and is my strong preference), but it didn't work. I read that the DS218+ cannot support external drives (it might have been in the drive software/control panel itself. Drivers/BIOS/firmware etc up to date). I didn't try too hard as I thought the route/node option would be possible...yeah...

Is attaching the HDDs to the DS218+ possible? I read that the "2" part of the name refers to the limit for connected drives (and it already contains 2), but then I have also read things that contradict this. The software suggests more drives are possible as it has options for attaching them.

Maybe I need to reformat (exFAT etc?) and try again...the annoying bit of which is I have managed to FTP a lot of data to those drives. Luckily I have another spare to play with.

Again, tips...yadda yadda yadda.

 

[bennor]

I read that the DS218+ cannot support external drives (it might have been in the drive software/control panel itself.

Where did you read that? The DS218+ like many Synology USB port equipped NAS drives can use attached USB hard drives. You just have to make sure the drive is properly formatted:

External Devices | DSM - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Synology NAS recognizes the following formats: Btrfs, ext3, ext4, FAT32, exFAT, HFS Plus, and NTFS. Any unrecognized external drive will have to be formatted first before they can be used on the system.

Absolutely no issues using various USB hard drives on a DS218+. Have one connected 24/7 as a Synology DSM HyperBackup target.

In Windows File Explorer the external USB drive shows up as "USBShare1". Example from Windows File Explorer:

 

[kildare]

DS218+ supports exFAT (compatible wit Win 10/11 and MAC): install the exFAT package (free with DSM version 7.0 and above) and format the disk from the PC or the NAS.

 

[bennor]

Yes, as @kildare indicated; if using an exFAT formatted external hard drive, and you are running DSM 7.0 or above, install the exFAT Access package from the DSM Package Center.

exFAT Access - Add-on Packages | Synology Inc.

Microsoft exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table) technology is a file system optimized for flash storage devices. With exFAT installed, you can access external storage devices with a file system formatted as exFAT on your NAS. Unlike FAT32, exFAT supports a single file larger than 4 GB and can...

www.synology.com

Synology has a few knowledgebase articles on exFAT:

Can I use exFAT external storage devices with my Synology NAS? - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Frequently asked questions about exFAT Access - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Example of the exFAT Access package in the DSM Package Center (DSM 7.2.x on a DS218+):

 

[LouisRedux]

Where did you read that? The DS218+ like many Synology USB port equipped NAS drives can use attached USB hard drives. You just have to make sure the drive is properly formatted:

External Devices | DSM - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Absolutely no issues using various USB hard drives on a DS218+. Have one connected 24/7 as a Synology DSM HyperBackup target.
View attachment 53107

In Windows File Explorer the external USB drive shows up as "USBShare1". Example from Windows File Explorer:
View attachment 53108

Thanks Bennor.

I'd also read this (the article is bookmarked) but I hadn't got around to doing it yet.

I think because the drives were NTSC formatted the Synology software in the drive told me I couldn't add the external drives (that's my guess). Thanks for confirming this is real. I'd deprioritised doing it because of my earlier error.

 

[LouisRedux]

DS218+ supports exFAT (compatible wit Win 10/11 and MAC): install the exFAT package (free with DSM version 7.0 and above) and format the disk from the PC or the NAS.

Thanks Kildare. I'm on it!

 

[LouisRedux]

Yes, as @kildare indicated; if using an exFAT formatted external hard drive, and you are running DSM 7.0 or above, install the exFAT Access package from the DSM Package Center.

exFAT Access - Add-on Packages | Synology Inc.

Microsoft exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table) technology is a file system optimized for flash storage devices. With exFAT installed, you can access external storage devices with a file system formatted as exFAT on your NAS. Unlike FAT32, exFAT supports a single file larger than 4 GB and can...

www.synology.com

Synology has a few knowledgebase articles on exFAT:

Can I use exFAT external storage devices with my Synology NAS? - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Frequently asked questions about exFAT Access - Synology Knowledge Center

Synology Knowledge Center offers comprehensive support, providing answers to frequently asked questions, troubleshooting steps, software tutorials, and all the technical documentation you may need.

kb.synology.com

Example of the exFAT Access package in the DSM Package Center (DSM 7.2.x on a DS218+):
View attachment 53117

Hi again, Bennor.

I've added the exFAT access software. As I will have (in essence) 3 drives, if I want them to be separate and mapped in Windows Explorer do I need to use the DNS Server/DHCP Server package(s)? I'm also (probably) going to use my iDrive account to do local backups (this might not be necessary because of existing Synology software) so presumably I need that too.

And thank you again.

 

[kildare]

I've added the exFAT access software. As I will have (in essence) 3 drives, if I want them to be separate and mapped in Windows Explorer do I need to use the DNS Server/DHCP Server package(s)?

From Synology support:

By connecting an external drive to the system, you will be able to share its drive capacity through a system-created shared folder named usbshare[number] (for USB drives)

So to have access to your USB disks, type in Win Explorer for example
\\synology\usbshare1
etc...
and possibly add them to the Explorer Quick Access items

 

[bennor]

I've added the exFAT access software. As I will have (in essence) 3 drives, if I want them to be separate and mapped in Windows Explorer do I need to use the DNS Server/DHCP Server package(s)?

There are no additional packages needed beyond the exFAT Access package. Just install that one package, connect the exFAT drives and (as my screen capture shows above) the first mounted drive will typically be listed as "usbshare1". The second, and additional drives will be listed as "usbshare2", "usbshare3" and so on. These will be shares on the NAS and can be accessed directly for example; "\\nasname\usbshare1" or by the NAS IP address for example "\\192.168.50.10\usbshare1".

 

[bennor]

NTSC formatted

NTSC format? Do you mean NTFS? NTSC typically means "National Television System Committee" and is a standard video format. NTFS is a partition format usually used by Windows and the like. Synology should have no issue using a USB drive formatted for NTFS.

 

[LouisRedux]

NTSC format? Do you mean NTFS? NTSC typically means "National Television System Committee" and is a standard video format. NTFS is a partition format usually used by Windows and the like. Synology should have no issue using a USB drive formatted for NTFS.

Yup! Mea culpa. Was on old tellies there for a sec!

Re: not having any problems with NTFS, hmm. Not saying it's the formatting, and I did expect it to work, but this very thing did not work last time. I'll try and repeat the "error", obviously it's some other fool thing I'm doing.

 

[LouisRedux]

Well I'll be double-dipped in {something offensive}! I just attached a drive and it worked. This is exactly the same drive, put into exactly the same USB port, with exactly the same formatting (nothing's been done to it). The only difference is the exFAT software (which presumably shouldn't apply because it's NTFS formatted).

Quite honestly this did not work last time, and instead of the drive (second of three) you see here there was red text saying the NAS did not support external drives.

I have no idea why, or what I did. I'd assumed it was plug and play, it didn't seem to be and now it is. I wonder if it's a drive uptime thing, or some random error, because I did nothing different.

Thank you all, especially Bennor and Kildare.

Weeks of messing about with buggy Asus stuff that involved umpteen resettings of security stuff and hair-pulling, and this works second time...