Having two access points vs AiMesh?

[Roy360360]

I currently have an AC66U-B1 and a AC68P. Both are running the exact same merlin firmware RT-AC68U_386.13_0.
Both are set to "Access Point(AP) mode / AiMesh Router in AP mode", both routers are wired directly to my pfsense router, and both routers have scripts enabled so I can use VLANs.

I set one of the routers to AiMesh Node, but for whatever reason, the routers don't see each other and the the Node eventually reverts back to Router mode (with the IP 192.168.50.1 instead of 192.168.1.2 which is what I assigned it in pfsense). (perhaps is the Node supposed to be wired directly to the other router?)
When I switch the router to Node mode, it also disappears from the ASUS device discovery tool


Is it worth figuring this out? Any advantages of AiMesh over having two access points

 

[ducky124]

I have found AImesh setup to be flaky using WiFI. I alway set up using ethernet first.

 

[Tech9]

Any advantages of AiMesh over having two access points

You can't have AiMesh with Nodes only. This is what you are trying to do and it will never work. Selecting AiMesh Node will just reset the router. It will wait after to be associated as a Node by the main Router or Router in AP Mode. There must be AiMesh Router or Router in AP Mode. In your case this is useless configuration especially if you already have scripted VLANs on your routers in AP Mode.

 

[Roy360360]

You can't have AiMesh with Nodes only. This is what you are trying to do and it will never work. Selecting AiMesh Node will just reset the router. It will wait after to be associated as a Node by the main Router or Router in AP Mode. There must be AiMesh Router or Router in AP Mode. In your case this is useless configuration especially if you already have scripted VLANs on your routers in AP Mode.

At some point "Access Point(AP) mode / AiMesh Router in AP mode" became a thing, which is why I thought I could do it, but I guess not.
I don't really need VLAN to work on the Node, but the the router acting as the AP absolutely needs to.

 

[Roy360360]

You can't have AiMesh with Nodes only. This is what you are trying to do and it will never work. Selecting AiMesh Node will just reset the router. It will wait after to be associated as a Node by the main Router or Router in AP Mode. There must be AiMesh Router or Router in AP Mode. In your case this is useless configuration especially if you already have scripted VLANs on your routers in AP Mode.

I wonder if its because I have the routers connected together via switch rather than directly. I wanted to avoid daisy chaining the routers to avoid both access point going down in the case of a power outrage. (Each router has its own UPS)

 

[jass]

In my world things need to work preferably always, so I've been a real Aimesh skeptic so far....

I did try Aimesh when it came out years ago, but ended up rather quickly with ordinary ap's configured separately as I always done it. Which is very foolproof and stable once you find the right firmware. It wasn't until a couple of months ago I started playing with Aimesh again, and so far I am positively surprised how well it's been working. After running a test setup at my home (one standalone router, and 3 AC88 setup up as aimesh node/router an 2 nodes). 3 weeks ago I took the chance and implemented the same setup out with a couple of customers, and I have not recieved any complaints yet. So in my opinion defenately worth a try.

I too as with the old solution with just separat ap's do use cable (from the ap/node wan port to the router. I havent had any problems if they've been via any dumb switches on the way back to the router. But I think it's very important you use the ap/nodes wan port, and not any of the lan ports for backhaul...

To me it sounds that your problems either is caused by not using the ap/node wan port for backhaul, or....
Even if the ap/nodes are set up with cables from every wan port, the node need to be within 3 feet of your Aimesh router or apmode / Aimesh router in ap mode when you shall add the node.

Best of luck

 

[Crimliar]

In a normal AiMesh setup, you'll see that one device is set up as a Master, which other devices will connect through - even if they have wired backhaul. You've created an AiMesh system that doesn't have a single "master" device to router through. In this setup, you lose absolutely nothing by just using the two nodes as Access Points, and avoid the possibility of network storms and other weird routing issues!

 

[heysoundude]

I would encourage you to read this article for a bit of wireless clarity:

SNB Answer Guy: How Many SSIDs Is Too Many? - SmallNetBuilder

How many SSID's should you use in a multi AP network? The SNB Answer Guy knows.

www.smallnetbuilder.com

It was written (I believe) before mesh was the marketing buzzword du jour.
If it's good enough for the mobile providers, It should be the right technique to use in your home/business as well, especially if/when you need to expand the network. (It can also lead you into some interesting network optimization techniques such as segmentation with vLAN and subnet, which I encourage you to consider and explore for your own purposes). You may be pleasantly surprised at the capabilities of your generation or two "old" equipment.

 

[eibgrad]

In a normal AiMesh setup, you'll see that one device is set up as a Master, which other devices will connect through - even if they have wired backhaul. You've created an AiMesh system that doesn't have a single "master" device to router through. In this setup, you lose absolutely nothing by just using the two nodes as Access Points, and avoid the possibility of network storms and other weird routing issues!

And at that point, why bother w/ ASUS firmware. You could get VLAN support in the GUI directly simply by installing FreshTomato on the AC66U and AC68U. No need for some hacked scripting.

P.S. I think DD-WRT supports VLANs w/ these same routers as well. At least it worked correctly last time I played w/ it on my AC68U a couple years ago. But FreshTomato is still my personal preference.

 

[eibgrad]

And btw, it's my understanding that the benefit of mesh (at least if implemented correctly) is to provide for smooth, seamless, transitioning from AP to AP as you roam. This is unlike a traditional AP where the client will hold on tenaciously to the original AP until there's almost no signal left, even if a better signal comes into range. But if the mesh doesn't work well in this regard, or you don't really need that capability (e.g., most of your devices are stationary), then to me it isn't worth the trouble.

 

[Crimliar]

Unfortunately, my experience with AiMesh (which I use), is that it does not provide that seamless transition from AP to AP. There is very definitely a break when an AP to AP switch finally occurs. What it does do is limit what's re-transmitted to just what needs re-transmitting, so it's acting more like a wireless switch than a wireless hub/repeater. So you don't get the full halving of capacity, since it's not re-transmitting everything!

 

[Tech9]

What it does do is limit what's re-transmitted to just what needs re-transmitting, so it's acting more like a wireless switch than a wireless hub/repeater. So you don't get the full halving of capacity, since it's not re-transmitting everything!

It does what exactly? Wired AiMesh Node is an access point, wireless is a repeater. Asus marketing in the name doesn't change that.

 

[jata]

I’m keen to see if I can get a vlan working on my AX ASUS APs.

I’m using opnsense router with vlan setup and working on my managed switch and UniFi AP.

The last part of the project is to get the vlan working on my ASUS APs but not sure if it’s even possible for them to broadcast lan and vlan SSIDs at the same time. Maybe one band lan and other band vlan?

I looked at fresh tomato but ax ASUS routers are not supported.

Any chance or forget it?

 

[eibgrad]

I’m keen to see if I can get a vlan working on my AX ASUS APs.

I’m using opnsense router with vlan setup and working on my managed switch and UniFi AP.

The last part of the project is to get the vlan working on my ASUS APs but not sure if it’s even possible for them to broadcast lan and vlan SSIDs at the same time. Maybe one band lan and other band vlan?

I looked at fresh tomato but ax ASUS routers are not supported.

Any chance or forget it?

Only AX router I see on the FT compatibility list is the Asus TUF-AX3000_V2. And even then, it's apparently a derivative of the AsusWRT GPL + some FT features, similar to how AsusWRT-Merlin is developed. But I don't know how much and what is ASUS vs. FT., esp. wrt VLANs.

I recommended FT to the OP precisely because he had FT compatible routers.

AX support has been very sketchy (if downright non-existent) for most third-party firmware. Apparently it's difficult (perhaps impossible) to replace the firmware in its entirety. At least that's my understanding. The developers know the details better than me.

 

[jata]

Thanks. I was thinking it might be possible with scripting but I haven’t looked into it yet.

For a tinkering project, I think this is too much work.

 

[Roy360360]

I’m keen to see if I can get a vlan working on my AX ASUS APs.

I’m using opnsense router with vlan setup and working on my managed switch and UniFi AP.

The last part of the project is to get the vlan working on my ASUS APs but not sure if it’s even possible for them to broadcast lan and vlan SSIDs at the same time. Maybe one band lan and other band vlan?

I looked at fresh tomato but ax ASUS routers are not supported.

Any chance or forget it?

I couldn't get it to work.

I suspect my VLAN script was causing something to break. I even tried bring router 2 upstairs to directly connect it to router 1 and still wouldn't add it as a node.


My setup:

Pfsense
---> Switch
---------> ASUS Router 1 (MESH ROUTER / AP Mode)
---------> ASUS Router 2 (MESH NODE)

I'm using the WAN port of both routers as the uplink

Router 2 eventually just switches back into AP mode and Router 1 never sees it.

 

[Tech9]

My setup:

Your better setup is what you had before:

Pfsense
---> Switch
---------> ASUS Router 1 AP Mode
---------> ASUS Router 2 AP Mode

If you have VLANs working as well - even better.

Why are you wasting your time with AiMesh? You had AiMesh Pro+ already.

 

[jata]

I couldn't get it to work.

I suspect my VLAN script was causing something to break. I even tried bring router 2 upstairs to directly connect it to router 1 and still wouldn't add it as a node.


My setup:

Pfsense
---> Switch
---------> ASUS Router 1 (MESH ROUTER / AP Mode)
---------> ASUS Router 2 (MESH NODE)

I'm using the WAN port of both routers as the uplink

Router 2 eventually just switches back into AP mode and Router 1 never sees it.

Thanks for the update. I have accepted that scripting vlans to APs (or nodes) is just too tricky to setup and maintain.

I agree with @Tech9 regarding APs v mesh nodes but sometimes you have no choice if you can't get a wire to an AP.

The other thing I have decided is that using 'routers' as access points is not usually good value for money. You are paying for stuff you don't need.

I am slowly adding PoE APs (unifi) to my home network. These support vlans and are easy to configure and maintain. I have the unifi controller software running in a docker container.

 

[Tech9]

RT-AC68U and variants are 10+ years old technology. Omada EAP610 AX1800-class with VLAN support and power adapter included are under $100. Can be used without Omada SDN Controller, they have own WebUI. Omada software controller is free (Linux/Windows), allows wireless mesh configurations, improves roaming, adds features like remote control, captive portal, auto configuration, etc. Similar to Ubiquiti UniFi and on affordable price.

 

[jata]

That is good value ($130 here in oz through amazon) but I wanted to use unifi as I already had a unifi switch. I bought a unifi U6 mini that has similar specs to the omada and I got it for $170 oz on amazon so similar price.