HELP! Farmer trying to set-up long-range property WiFi

[FarmerFran]

I'm far less worried about the Eufy cameras. They have a satisfaction guarantee and a lifetime warranty. Besides, when I do this experiment, I'll just be buying (1) camera and if it does suck, I'll get my money back and only be out the cost of the AP (which I'd eventually use anyways).

Regarding getting power in some other place - I have 100% confident I can build a reliable system there (I was a Solar engineer for years before moving into Agriculture). My entire house is solar powered. I'm 100% off-grid. Having said that, I don't know my hand from my backside regarding networking, but I'm a quick learner and I appreciate all of the help. Also, I'm definitely not going to use cellular trail cameras. I'll need at least 8 security cameras, but ideally closer to 12. $80 / month x 12 months / year = $960 / year. Each Cellular Camera (that's not awful) is at least $250, whereas these solar cameras are ~$100 per unit. Moving to a pure WiFi system makes much more financial sense. I'm fully well aware that they have limitations in terms of performance - including having object detection out to only 25 ft. Having said that, I can live look-in at any time and the cameras are equipped with zoom and can see farther, just not leveraging AI/ML algorithms.

So let's work together and design an experiment. Mind you, I'm not 100% versed on the differences between routers, bridges, APs, extenders, repeaters - but I imagine I'll need some mix of elements. I've attached two images - one of the property layout, and one with where I'd imagine I'd put connecting APs.

Experiment:

• AT&T Unit => CPE210 #1 (sending S) across 255 yards LOS to another CPE210 running AP
  • Devices:
    • (2) Cameras: One at 0 yards from AP; other at 60 yards
    • Occasional Mobile / Laptop traffic

If all goes well, then I'd connect a wired router to the AT&T unit and then go as shown in the plan below. (Note, this is a lossless analysis which I know is incorrect).

Practical questions:

• Is this feasible?
• If you're using two bridges, how do you "use" the signal on the receiving end? Is it in the form an AP? Or is it hardline Ethernet out?
  • Example A: Consider the connection from the Base Station to 'H' (CPE #15 - CPE #16). When the signal arrives at CPE #16, will devices be able to connect wirelessly to CPE #16?
  • Example B: Consider the connection from the Base Station to 'A' (CPE #1 - CPE #2). Since I need to send the signal (3) ways (CPE #3, 4, 5), will they wirelessly mesh together? Or will I need another (4) Port switch and connect them using hardline?

I greatly appreciate all of the help as we continue to dive deeper into the weeds.

 

[degrub]

If your map is halfway accurate scale, move your "base" up to location 3. Add a point to point repeater going to location 4. From location 4 , it appears you have line of sight to all of the cameras in the lower half. From the location of 3 (new base) , it appears you have LOS on the upper half set of cameras.

A real plot plan or at least a good satellite shot might help. What does the terrain elevation map look like ?
Assume your point to points will need to be at least 20ft , maybe 30 ft elevation on poles with lightning diversion.

 

[Tech9]

Experiment:

You can do this experiment:

AT&T -> CPE210 <-> CPE210 -> EAP110-Outdoor -> Camera

In English: Internet -> long range wireless bridge -> access point -> local clients

CPE range they say ~5km, EAP range they say ~200m. Don't count on maximums.

The power problem you need to research and solve - all devices are PoE powered.

Also some reading will be needed how to configure each one of the devices.

 

[NXIL]

I'd like to set up WiFi across my 35 acres of property in order to let me stream media, including live-streaming WiFi-based security cameras. My challenges are that I don't have power across the property - a problem that can be fixed with a lot of hassle (e.g., setting up solar-based power generators), but I'd like to get some help before going down that road.

Also consider direct burial Cat6A and POE.

My constraints:

• I am using AT&T Internet Air (~$65.00 / month) since there's no other choices available in my area

Except for Starlink:

Starlink

High-speed internet. Available almost anywhere on Earth.

www.starlink.com

HIGH-SPEED INTERNET AROUND THE WORLD​

Connect in minutes. No contracts.
$299 $499 for the Starlink Kit.​

There's also Hughes satellite and Viasat, but they are not good (very high latency), so not recommended.

 

[NXIL]

I just have no realistic idea regarding the Range I can attain using 2.4G WiFi 6 (or 7).

It depends on which equipment you buy: Mikrotik, Ubiquiti, TP-Link, etc.

It depends on how flat/how many trees/other obstructions are involved.

YMMV

 

[NXIL]

This thing needs planning otherwise you'll spend thousands in experiments with no guaranteed result.

Agree--possibly a professional who does this on the regular?

 

[NXIL]

I'd like to start cheap.

As with any project, there's

• reliable,
• fast, and
• cheap

Pick two
Edit: Just saw that you are an engineer, so you know the Two out of Three rule!

Consider Mikrotik gear:

MikroTik

MikroTik makes networking hardware and software, which is used in nearly all countries of the world. Our mission is to make existing Internet technologies faster, more powerful and affordable to wider range of users.

mikrotik.com

Consider direct burial gel filled Cat6A cable like this:

https://www.belden.com/products/Cable/Ethernet-Cable/Category-6A-Cable/OSP6AU

Category 6A Horizontal Premise Cable (500MHz), OSP Rated, 4 Pair, 23 AWG Solid Bare Copper Conductors, U/UTP, Inner Polyolefin Jacket, Gel-Filled, Outer Polyolefin Jacket

You don't need "shielded", etc--UTP is fine. Just installed a few hundred feet of this in underground conduit for a neighbor, and installed a POE powered TP Link Outdoor AP that covers their entire property.

AX3000 Indoor/Outdoor WiFi 6 Access Point

Powered by the latest WiFi 6 technology, the AX3000 Indoor/Outdoor WiFi 6 Access Point EAP650-Outdoor delivers WiFi speeds of up to 3 Gbps, ideal for use in outdoor environments, such as outdoor swimming pools, cafes, and amusement parks.

www.tp-link.com

But, much smaller area than yours.

Note: is there a lot of lightning in your area?

If so, consider buried fiber, not copper.

Just some options, FS.com will custom make the fiber cables you might need and properly terminate them:

https://www.fs.com/c/specialty-fiber-cables-1120

Why fiber and not copper outdoors, even buried?

FarmerFran, please watch this, starting about 6:00

Please DO watch this!

Lightning is absolutely going to be more of a problem in the near future:

How does climate change affect thunderstorms?

How are thunderstorms formed, and how will climate change affect them?

www.rmets.org

Of course outdoor fiber should not be affected by lightning.

 

[FarmerFran]

You can do this experiment:

AT&T -> CPE210 <-> CPE210 -> EAP110-Outdoor -> Camera

In English: Internet -> long range wireless bridge -> access point -> local clients

CPE range they say ~5km, EAP range they say ~200m. Don't count on maximums.

The power problem you need to research and solve - all devices are PoE powered.

Also some reading will be needed how to configure each one of the devices.

This is what I am looking for. I can easily resolve the power problem and utilize a PoE injector. It's a bit of an expense, but a very, very easy one to resolve. I'll emphasize, please don't worry about the solar side of things - I got that down pat.

I also recognize that this will not be cheap. If you look at my map above, I have a huge number of CPEs. I care much more about being reliable and fast (to quote @NXIL ).

Also, there aren't people that do this on the regular. This is a very niche-case.

@degrub , your proposal wouldn't work because the only LOS configurations that exist are noted in my original plot. No other LOS exist between any of the points.

@Tech9 - Would I need an EAP2110 anywhere that I plan to have the WiFi AP then?

 

[Tech9]

I'll emphasize, please don't worry about the solar side of things

Not worrying anymore, you obviously know what is needed.

Would I need an EAP2110 anywhere that I plan to have the WiFi AP then?

EAP110-Outdoor is the actual AP clients will be connecting to. CPE210 on both end is the long range link. Test one setup as above and if it works well you have to repeat the same setup in each direction. One thing I don't know - how well multiple CPE units will work close to each other mounted on a pole and facing in different directions. They do have directional antennas with relatively narrow beam, but they also use the same band and the antenna still radiates on the sides and behind it. I've done wireless bridges, I've shoot building with Wi-Fi from outside, but never had high power wireless devices so close to each other.

 

[FarmerFran]

Not worrying anymore, you obviously know what is needed.



EAP110-Outdoor is the actual AP clients will be connecting to. CPE210 on both end is the long range link. Test one setup as above and if it works well you have to repeat the same setup in each direction. One thing I don't know - how well multiple CPE units will work close to each other mounted on a pole and facing in different directions. They do have directional antennas with relatively narrow beam, but they also use the same band and the antenna still radiates on the sides and behind it. I've done wireless bridges, I've shoot building with Wi-Fi from outside, but never had high power wireless devices so close to each other.

@Tech9 - How do I connect the CPE210 to the EAP110? It looks like the CPE210 only has one Ethernet (PoE) input, so I don't see a clear way to connect it to the EAP110. Do they wirelessly mesh?

Using my map above, the experiment I'd run would be the Base to point 'D' (255 yards). If the EAP110 provides even close to 200m, then in theory, I should be able to reach #7 easily (50 yards away, LOS).

I also am concerned about attenuation and EMI from the various devices. I was perhaps considering a unit like the WAVLINK AX3000 (link), not using the external antennas they came with, and instead replacing them with external Yagi-types like the one here (link). In theory, I could set up (4) of those Yagi's on one AX3000 and beam them to point 'D' (perhaps another WAVLINK AX3000)? And then connect to #7 directly from there. This may be a way harder solution than causing the CPE-CPE bridge (which seems to advertise amazing range when using the same units), but I'd be happy to hear your opinion on it.

 

[NXIL]

Tycon Solar RemotePro15W,18Ah Batt,3.2W Cont. Sol,12/24V PoE [RPPL1224-18-15]Default Title

The RemotePro® PL-SM series (RPPL) outdoor power systems are designed for applications that require a primary offgrid or backup power source to run various electronics. The sealed and weatherproof 11x7x6” Polycarbonate enclosures hold up to two 12V 9AH batteries. The enclosures are hinged and...

www.balticnetworks.com

Tycon Solar RemotePro15W,18Ah Batt,3.2W Cont. Sol,12/24V PoE [RPPL1224-18-15]​

Solar powered POE unit--

 

[NXIL]

FarmerFran, solar powered starlink setups:

“Starlink” 30A Power Hub – AC out | GTIS Power and Communications Systems

Solar power system - pure sine wave, 300 W continuous, 250-V ac 50-Hz output; add 12-V deep cycle batteries; add 12-V solar panels

power.sil.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/13t1j9v/has_anyone_tried_to_power_up_a_starlink_using

Beginner setup to run starlink off grid.

Hello, Im new to all of this but I was just looking for some advice. My partner has a small business and we trade at large music festivals throughout the UK. Unfortunately 4g phone coverage is poor at many locations and WiFi provided by the festivals is very expensive. Around £250 over 3-4...

diysolarforum.com

An off-grid Starlink user achieves 'infinite WiFi' with 300 watts of solar

And the setup could be used to help hikers on extreme Sawtooth Mountain trails.

interestingengineering.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/un07ba/got_my_remote_fully_offgrid_starlink_station

A remote fully off-grid Starlink station​

In a Reddit post last week, Birch wrote that he has a “remote fully off-grid Starlink station installed in the Sawtooth mountains of Idaho.” The station includes a 300-watt solar panel setup made up of three 100-watt panels and a 450Ah battery bank, and it’s “been running like a champ 24/7 for the last week,” he wrote in his post.


On our call with Birch, we asked whether his setup was still running smoothly and whether one Reddit commenter’s claim that it would provide “infinite WiFi” was accurate. The initial setup worked non-stop for four days, he explained. Connectivity issues after the four-day mark — amid snowy conditions and temperatures of 12 degrees Fahrenheit (-11°C) — led him to seek assistance on Reddit. A smaller inverter later, he now believes he has 24/7 “self-sufficient” WiFi, achieving speeds of 113 Mbps, even in the pouring rain.

Etc

 

[Tech9]

How do I connect the CPE210 to the EAP110?

You'll have 2x PoE injectors included. Data + PoE port goes to each device, Data only port connected between the injectors.

You have to be very, very careful with Passive PoE injectors because connecting them to non-PoE equipment will damage it.

I was perhaps considering a unit like the WAVLINK AX3000 (link)

I know nothing about WAVLINK and can't comment.

 

[NXIL]

Op, degrub wrote:

A real plot plan or at least a good satellite shot might help. What does the terrain elevation map look like ?
Assume your point to points will need to be at least 20ft , maybe 30 ft elevation on poles with lightning diversion.

Google or Bing (or other) aerial photo, or 7.5 minute topo map?

Google aerial (capture image too large but you get it)

Bing aerial at 30 foot marker

Get Maps

Explore, interact, and download USGS topographic maps free of charge from topoView.

ngmdb.usgs.gov

The 1:24000 maps look pretty detailed--this one is old, but, the earth is still pretty much the same:

 

[Tech9]

Saving this thread in case Elon calls me for a Wi-Fi project on Mars...

Solar + Battery + Inverter + PoE + CPE + EAP + Camera with Solar + Battery + Wi-Fi...

 

[FarmerFran]

You'll have 2x PoE injectors included. Data + PoE port goes to each device, Data only port connected between the injectors.

You have to be very, very careful with Passive PoE injectors because connecting them to non-PoE equipment will damage it.

I am pretty sure all of the equipment I'll be using is PoE based.

I'll never use Starlink. I ask people to kindly quit referencing it.

@NXIL- I didn't pull the aerial or topo because what I explained which links are LOS.

 

[thiggins]

Has anyone actually used the CPE210? What is the Client Router (WISP) mode? Can it eliminate the EAP110

 

[Tech9]

I am pretty sure all of the equipment I'll be using is PoE based.

Different types of PoE are used. Passive PoE is the "dangerous" type.

What is the Client Router (WISP) mode?

Wireless WAN, then router for isolation and through LAN port to wired client device or another AP.

Can it eliminate the EAP110

No, because of the directional antenna and 60 degree beam. Recommended by TP-Link setup is CPE + AP.

 

[Tech9]

Has anyone actually used the CPE210?

Similar Ubiquiti NanoStations. This is what I looked for first, but they mostly offer new products, more expensive, don't have outdoor 2.4GHz only APs anymore, cheap loco's are discontinued (?), somewhat more complex setup, harder to get. My reason for TP-Link examples - low cost, readily available including matching for the application AP, known brand.

 

[NXIL]

Saving this thread in case Elon calls me for a Wi-Fi project on Mars...

Tech9, you haven't heard? You're signed up and you'll be collected for processing a day or two before launch.

Bring some potato seeds.