Home Mesh Wi-Fi Coming This Summer From eero

[pete y testing]

Review posted.

hi tim

nice balanced review , like you i have moved on from trying to force wifi from any single transmission point and multiple ap's is the way to go , most that have moved this way will already have ethernet runs so i cant see the home mesh type system being of any use for this type of user , yes those building and or renovating its certainly a choice to ether hard wire or use this type of mesh system but would you say it wouldnt be as good as hardwired and AP's would it ?

like any mesh system placement and wifi propagation is the key , wemo started with mesh but found there where too many limitations due to the fixed placement of the devices , it may be better for the eero system as you can define the location and power etc but its certainly a system you would want to be sure of before splashing the cash over hard wiring your smart house in the first place

pete

 

[thiggins]

Pete,
eero should function like any Ethernet connected multi-AP system if all units are wired. I don't see why it would perform worse. All radios would be free to service STAs, not backhaul traffic.

 

[stevech]

Opinion: Mesh WiFi in a residence makes zero sense: cost, complexity, reliability.
Unless the residence is 10,000 sq. ft. but in that case, the owner likely can afford to run cat5 cables!

A business tenant with lots of sq. ft. leased in a big office building.. maybe.

Citywide mesh.. ask Earthlink (!). http://www.cnet.com/news/was-earthlinks-failed-citywide-wi-fi-a-blessing-in-disguise/

These aside, the average residential WiFi person with coverage shortcomings can do just fine with one or two added Access Points with backhaul on Powerline IP or MoCA. Or, for the light duty folks, just an all-wireless repeater/extender.

 

[thiggins]

These aside, the average residential WiFi person with coverage shortcomings can do just fine with one or two added Access Points with backhaul on Powerline IP or MoCA. Or, for the light duty folks, just an all-wireless repeater/extender.

And you can run eero that way, too.

Problem isn't just coverage, it's capacity.

You can dismiss it out of hand if you like. But you should try it first.

 

[pete y testing]

eero should function like any Ethernet connected multi-AP system if all units are wired.

yes but then why would you buy these devices over the like of unifi ac ap's if they are all hardwired

if they show up here in oz i will give em a go and see what they work like for me

thanks again


pete

 

[stevech]

And you can run eero that way, too. You can dismiss it out of hand if you like. But you should try it first.

I caveated my comments as opinion.
Been there, done that.

I have no need for residential WiFi... my router + one AP provide all that's needed.
More than you want to know, below.

Capacity is limited by the available (idle) air time on/near the channel the access device is using (of course). Single-radio mesh nodes are terrible at this, as the backhaul and access is done on the same radio. Two-band mesh nodes, often 5GHz for backhaul, are much better. But dual radio mesh nodes are an overkill for residential users, esp. when prudence has big bandwidth consuming desktops and immobile devices using wired, and low demand handhelds, on WiFi. Or a casual use laptop. Even streaming Netflix is low demand.

I spent a long year working as the principle engineer for two big cities, as a consultant to Earthlink. That was a mashup of Tropos outdoor meshing (good), and Motorola's Canopy (er, ah, not so good) for backhaul. As we know, these metro WiFi projects all died for lack of a viable business model. Technology wise, this was very interesting and challenging, esp. for cities with serious terrain/mesas. It was all about building penetration and how to get whole house coverage at reasonable speed - at a CPE price that was not sky-high. Self-install was essential to the business model and it just couldn't be done.
I also worked for years on military mesh networking - where every node moved, most as pedestrians. That got so much money, and cost was tolerable and stratospheric levels, that it sort of worked. But the need came from mobile nodes, no fixed infrastructure -- not the case with consumer WiFi.

 

[Nullity]

@stevech To mirror thiggins, I thought WiFi was ill-advised until I tried it... now I prefer it for most "normal" activities. I am not saying you are wrong, just that the tech is new and it's usefulness cannot yet be determined with any real accuracy.

 

[stevech]

@stevech To mirror thiggins, I thought WiFi was ill-advised until I tried it... now I prefer it for most "normal" activities. I am not saying you are wrong, just that the tech is new and it's usefulness cannot yet be determined with any real accuracy.

I lived meshing for years, professionally and know where it makes sense. And my home WiFi coverage and capacity are fine, and low cost, and no hassles.

 

[Nullity]

I lived meshing for years, professionally and know where it makes sense. And my home WiFi coverage and capacity are fine, and low cost, and no hassles.

Mesh is new to consumers, which is the largest market (right?). I am interested to see what commodity mesh will bring us when regular people can begin to play with it.

Like I said about my non-WiFi LAN... it was fine until I learned of new ways of setting up my network.



I am probably just afraid of being a considered luddite...

 

[stevech]

Consumer WiFi is very low margin - commodity. Gotta sell a zillion to break even on R&D, support, warranty, marketing. So the biggies have WiFi as one small product line a midst many. Overspecializing is risky.

 

[headcase]

And you can run eero that way, too.

Problem isn't just coverage, it's capacity.

You can dismiss it out of hand if you like. But you should try it first.

Any comments about seamless handoffs of the client devices when moving around within the house? I've found that even with my APs all hardwired and with decent wireless coverage, I still have issues. Hence why I'm considering mesh.

 

[thiggins]

yes but then why would you buy these devices over the like of unifi ac ap's if they are all hardwired

if they show up here in oz i will give em a go and see what they work like for me

thanks again

Experiened users like you might not benefit from eero because you know how to set them up properly (channel management, bandwidth, transmit power adjustment). Most people don't know how to set up multi-AP Wi-Fi and will benefit from automatic management.

 

[thiggins]

Any comments about seamless handoffs of the client devices when moving around within the house? I've found that even with my APs all hardwired and with decent wireless coverage, I still have issues. Hence why I'm considering mesh.

I briefly mentioned that in the review. eero supports 802.11r for fast reassociation. But to get the benefit, the client also must support it. An IDLE test client (sorry, I forget which one) I tried switched APs within a second.

"Mesh" is not the solution for "sticky" clients that refuse to roam. It is merely a way to handle backhaul traffic. eero does not yet do load balancing or band steering. So any client roaming behavior is still primarily up to the STAs.

 

[sfx2000]

Experiened users like you might not benefit from eero because you know how to set them up properly (channel management, bandwidth, transmit power adjustment). Most people don't know how to set up multi-AP Wi-Fi and will benefit from automatic management.

Exactly... not everyone is at the level of many of the users here, and are looking for a plug and play solution, which apparently Eero is trying to deliver...

 

[thiggins]

eero Adds $350 Two-Pack

 

[stevech]

A lot of dear friends with iPads just know the Internet comes to their iPad and not a stitch more.

 

[sfx2000]

A lot of dear friends with iPads just know the Internet comes to their iPad and not a stitch more.

There is a whole generation that has grown up with smartphones/tablets as their primary platform - and handheld/set top consoles as well for gaming - and no desire to learn a desktop OS...

Which might explain why ChromeOS is doing as well as it is...

 

[sfx2000]

A bit of levity... not everyone is a graybeard like Steve and myself

 

[sfx2000]

I briefly mentioned that in the review. eero supports 802.11r for fast reassociation. But to get the benefit, the client also must support it. An IDLE test client (sorry, I forget which one) I tried switched APs within a second.

"Mesh" is not the solution for "sticky" clients that refuse to roam. It is merely a way to handle backhaul traffic. eero does not yet do load balancing or band steering. So any client roaming behavior is still primarily up to the STAs.

It's up to the client STA's (remember, in 802.11 speak, an AP is also a STA, hehe), and they're getting better all the time...

Apple's IOS/Mac OS X do 11r, and very nicely in a managed environment if it's supported on the network side - newer versions of Android have it as an option (if the client wifi driver supports it), and same with Windows (again, dependent on driver support)...

 

[Nullity]

A bit of levity... not everyone is a graybeard like Steve and myself

View attachment 5809

That is my favorite Simpsons quote.