MOCA network as wired backhaul for Wifi

[uildvek]

Hey all,

I recently moved to a new house that's only wired for coax and I am trying to use MOCA as wired backhaul for my wireless router and extender. I have the Arris SB8200 as my modem and ordered a pair of goCoax WF-803M MOCA adapters. My goal is to basically connect the modem and router in my living room to the extender in my bedroom. Each room has only one coax outlet and the cable connection from the outside is in the basement. I read a lot of different wiring diagrams from others online and got myself properly confused. I drew my own diagram for my envisioned setup and would appreciate any feedback or concerns.

My two biggest questions are the placement of the poe filter and whether the loop in the living room will work (according to Motorola's website it should...).
Another question is about the poe filter itself. I ordered a Holland poe filter which says "Bandstop provides a typical 35-45dB of rejection in the MoCA 1125-1525Mhz band". According to goCoax, the adapter uses 1125MHz to 1675MHz. Will the poe filter work in this case? (I assume it'll pass 5-1002MHz and block everything else but I'm not sure).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[coxhaus]

Moca has a limit on speed so how fast is your internet?

 

[Mark070]

Your picture looks fine. My setup at home is 100% identical to yours (in that picture). I have a different Modem, not sure I can help with the frequencies (I just bought filter/splitters that others bought and it worked),

Make sure your port splitter is MoCA aware too. I had to swap out the one the cable provider gave me, with a different splitter.

 

[uildvek]

Moca has a limit on speed so how fast is your internet?

I have gigabit internet from Comcast. I've read that MOCA 2.5 theoretically supports up to 2.5Gbps so it should be OK. Whatever the real world speed is it'll probably still be better than wireless backhaul, since my router and extender don't have a dedicated wireless backhaul.

Your picture looks fine. My setup at home is 100% identical to yours (in that picture). I have a different Modem, not sure I can help with the frequencies (I just bought filter/splitters that others bought and it worked),

Make sure your port splitter is MoCA aware too. I had to swap out the one the cable provider gave me, with a different splitter.

That's good to know, thanks! Can you post the model/store listing of the splitter and filter if you still have them.

 

[Mark070]

The POE Filter I use (coming into the house):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KO5KHSQ/?tag=snbforums-20

and the splitter it plugs into (again, coming into the house):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017T9KF1S/?tag=snbforums-20

 

[Ziptbm]

Hey all,

I recently moved to a new house that's only wired for coax and I am trying to use MOCA as wired backhaul for my wireless router and extender. I have the Arris SB8200 as my modem and ordered a pair of goCoax WF-803M MOCA adapters. My goal is to basically connect the modem and router in my living room to the extender in my bedroom. Each room has only one coax outlet and the cable connection from the outside is in the basement. I read a lot of different wiring diagrams from others online and got myself properly confused. I drew my own diagram for my envisioned setup and would appreciate any feedback or concerns.
View attachment 26123

My two biggest questions are the placement of the poe filter and whether the loop in the living room will work (according to Motorola's website it should...).
Another question is about the poe filter itself. I ordered a Holland poe filter which says "Bandstop provides a typical 35-45dB of rejection in the MoCA 1125-1525Mhz band". According to goCoax, the adapter uses 1125MHz to 1675MHz. Will the poe filter work in this case? (I assume it'll pass 5-1002MHz and block everything else but I'm not sure).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Did this setup work for you?

I’m looking at a similar setup using Comcast gigabit in a house where the modem is in the middle with only a single coax port. The Poe and splitters for rooms are in the basement. Would prefer to not move the modem to basement due to limited space at the Poe and splitter.

If it did work, did you connect the “TV” connection on the gocoax to the modem and MOCA to the coax network?

Lastly, did It matter which ports (in or out) you plugged in for the Poe and splitter ports?

I did some tests on this yesterday that didn’t work using just the Poe filter before a 6 way MOCA splitter, but had issues with internet working. Had Poe in the IN port of the splitter and rooms on the OUT ports (including line to the modem), but it did not work and I ran out of time to keep troubleshooting. Have read conflicting reports, so trying to see what’s possible given my ideal state that looks like your diagram.

 

[degrub]

the drawing in this thread should only work if the ISP modem is using frequencies that the gocoax modem will pass through on the TV out connection. Also all of the splitters would have to support moca2.

a better setup would have a 2 way splitter at the wall with one leg to the moca modem and one to the ISP modem. The main splitter at the entry needs to match any amplification requirements for the isp and also must be moca 2 certified.

the head in POE may or may not be required depending on if the main splitter provides this function. Some do..

 

[Ziptbm]

the drawing in this thread should only work if the ISP modem is using frequencies that the gocoax modem will pass through on the TV out connection. Also all of the splitters would have to support moca2.

a better setup would have a 2 way splitter at the wall with one leg to the moca modem and one to the ISP modem. The main splitter at the entry needs to match any amplification requirements for the isp and also must be moca 2 certified.

the head in POE may or may not be required depending on if the main splitter provides this function. Some do..

Thanks! Yes, I have a 2 way MOCA splitter, but did not try it yesterday as I was just testing to see if the internet connection would still work with the Comcast Modem behind the MOCA Filter and the 6 Way MOCA Splitter. It did not work, but I also had the POE connection going into the IN slot of the 6 Way MOCA Splitter, which I've read may be part of the issue....need to test this later tonight.

Assuming my Comcast Xfinity XB7 isn't using the frequencies used by the GoCoax (which I have read should not be a problem), you're suggesting the following connection configuration should work:

• [Basement]
  • ISP Drop --> MOCA Filter --> 6 way MOCA splitter --> Coax to each room
• [Room with Modem]
  • Coax Port from Wall --> 2 Way MOCA Splitter
    • Xfinity Cable Modem
    • GoCoax MOCA device
• [Each Additional Room]
  • Coax Port from Wall --> GoCoax MOCA Device

@degrub I like your suggestion of the 2 Way MOCA Splitter as I'd rather not mess with the TV port on the GoCoax. Does the configuration above look like it should work?

 

[degrub]

looks correct. Check your 6 way splitter existing - amplification may be needed for ISP purposes (so match what is there, just MOCA2 certified, the moca modems are unlikely to need amplifications as they already have that. additional amp may distort the signal so make sure the amp only works on the incoming feed to the output ports and not from output port to output port) and check if the powered moca2 splitter you get alread has a moca block in the input port.

 

[Ziptbm]

looks correct. Check your 6 way splitter existing - amplification may be needed for ISP purposes (so match what is there, just MOCA2 certified, the moca modems are unlikely to need amplifications as they already have that. additional amp may distort the signal so make sure the amp only works on the incoming feed to the output ports and not from output port to output port) and check if the powered moca2 splitter you get alread has a moca block in the input port.

the 6 way MOCA splitter I have isn’t powered. But I can see there was previously a powered non-MOCA splitter in the space from previous usage. Guess this means I probably need to buy a powered MOCA splitter and could be part of the reason the reason why the modem wouldn’t connect through it yesterday.

I’m looking at this powered splitter. Same brand and size as previous, but supports MOCA .

CommScope CSMF1APDU9VPI HomeConnect 9-Port Passive VoIP MoCA Amplifier for Comcast, Xfinity, RCN, Optimum, Wow, COX, Spectrum https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TN963JJ/?tag=snbforums-20

Since it has a POE filter included, that just means my isp drop can go right into the input, right?

 

[degrub]

you may not need powered if the current one is working fine for the other cable uses. Was the original powered ?
you would not need a second moca poe filter. Don't buy more ports than you have cables unless you plan to expand. You do want to terminate each unused with 75 ohm caps.

there was another recent thread discussing this same splitter. Search for that as there was additional discussion about VOIP and other uses.

 

[uildvek]

Did this setup work for you?

I’m looking at a similar setup using Comcast gigabit in a house where the modem is in the middle with only a single coax port. The Poe and splitters for rooms are in the basement. Would prefer to not move the modem to basement due to limited space at the Poe and splitter.

If it did work, did you connect the “TV” connection on the gocoax to the modem and MOCA to the coax network?

Lastly, did It matter which ports (in or out) you plugged in for the Poe and splitter ports?

I did some tests on this yesterday that didn’t work using just the Poe filter before a 6 way MOCA splitter, but had issues with internet working. Had Poe in the IN port of the splitter and rooms on the OUT ports (including line to the modem), but it did not work and I ran out of time to keep troubleshooting. Have read conflicting reports, so trying to see what’s possible given my ideal state that looks like your diagram.

The setup in my drawing worked perfectly in my scenario. I connected the TV connection on the gocoax to my modem and other one to the wall coax outlet. I had to replace the existing root splitter since it was for cable only and did not pass through MOCA frequencies. Since I only planned on having one extender I got a 2-way splitter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P6VHLP0/?tag=snbforums-20.

This is the poe filter I got which I hooked up between the drop and the root splitter like the diagram: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DC8IEE6/?tag=snbforums-20.

I didn't have to do any amplification but I only have a 2-way splitter instead of 6, not sure if that matters.

 

[Ziptbm]

you may not need powered if the current one is working fine for the other cable uses. Was the original powered ?
you would not need a second moca poe filter. Don't buy more ports than you have cables unless you plan to expand. You do want to terminate each unused with 75 ohm caps.

there was another recent thread discussing this same splitter. Search for that as there was additional discussion about VOIP and other uses.

When cable TV was in each room, there was a powered non-MOCA version of this CommScope splitter in place. Cable TV service was discontinued last year, so the coax to the cable modem room was removed from the old amplifier and connected directly to the POE.

I purchased a non-powered MOCA 6 way splitter and tested the following configuration last night. Unfortunately, the internet service did not return in the limited testing I did, which leads me to believe that I may need the MOCA amplifier splitter given the distance and rooms (so I just purchased it to test). That is unless I was not supposed to use the IN port on the non-powered splitter as I've read somewhere, but have not yet tested that configuration.

• [Basement]
  • ISP Drop --> MOCA Filter --> 6 way non-power MOCA splitter --> Coax to each room
• [Room with Modem]
  • Coax Port from Wall --> Xfinity Cable Modem

As for more ports, there are at least 5 out that I need now, so that limits my options from what I've seen. And I may expand to others if this works. And I've purchased 75ohm terminator caps as well. Thank you.


Thanks for the tip about this splitter, looking for that other thread now.

 

[degrub]

Just a thought to consider, why not put the isp cable modem and your router in the basement ?
connect the cable modem directly to the isp drop, this isolates your in house cable from the isp and you can run moca throughout the house using the splitter. If you need added wireless coverage, just add 1 or 2 access points where you need them.

btw, is the csble modem using doccis 3 or 3.1 ?
Is the coax RG59 or RG6 ?

 

[Ziptbm]

Just a thought to consider, why not put the isp cable modem and your router in the basement ?
connect the cable modem directly to the isp drop, this isolates your in house cable from the isp and you can run moca throughout the house using the splitter. If you need added wireless coverage, just add 1 or 2 access points where you need them.

btw, is the csble modem using doccis 3 or 3.1 ?
Is the coax RG59 or RG6 ?

I’m holding on moving the modem because there is limited space for it there and it will require an extra eero and MOCA device in a place I do not want them.

RG6 and I believe Docsis 3.1, it’s from Comcast and an XB7, which doesn’t call out officially as 3.1 anywhere. But I assume given the specs I can see.

 

[degrub]

If it is DocCis3.1, then i think you will have to shift the MOCA modems to D High band as there will be interference at the lowest band MOCA uses. That reduces the max available throughput to no more than 2 Gb/sec as it will use 4 of the 5 available bands.

A non amplified splitter with that many ports will give a large signal loss - at least 7-9 dB of loss. So if the ISP modem worked without the splitter present, then that is likely why it is not working with an unpowered splitter.

 

[Ziptbm]

If it is DocCis3.1, then i think you will have to shift the MOCA modems to D High band as there will be interference at the lowest band MOCA uses. That reduces the max available throughput to no more than 2 Gb/sec as it will use 4 of the 5 available bands.

A non amplified splitter with that many ports will give a large signal loss - at least 7-9 dB of loss. So if the ISP modem worked without the splitter present, then that is likely why it is not working with an unpowered splitter.

Got it, thank you.

That’s only IF I don’t isolate my modem from the MOCA network I believe. If I put the modem at POE, I would get the increased bandwidth internally and not need the amplifier. There could be some benefits to that plan if this is correct.

 

[degrub]

If you only have 2-3 moca nodes, you may not notice a difference. More nodes means more sharing of the available bandwidth for nodes on the same cable ( which is what a splitter based install creates). Realistically, most users do fine with 100 mbit/sec or less bandwidth. Also, if you game online, MOCA introduces a small amount of latency. Usually not an issue but something to be aware of.

Unless you are doing frequent high bandwidth streams/transfers locally or iperf testing runs, you may sometimes see some contention, but for ordinary home use, you may not even notice.

 

[Ziptbm]

@degrub made my first real test by moving the modem to the Poe and then using a non-amplified splitter as a separate Coax network. Seems to be working well. For wired devices to the access points, in getting close to 700mbps down and almost 40mbps up (have gigabit down / >40mbps up service). These type of speeds for wired seem to be consistent at each node, except for one where I’m getting 100mbps down. Ping appears to be 7ms wired and like 20 wireless. Thinking this one odd node may have an older coax connection, so will be investigating it further this weekend.

If RG59 is used for one or a non-MoCA splitter were used that I don’t know about yet, would this logically make sense for the degraded speed?

 

[degrub]

what does the diagnostic page show for the link rates for each connection node active ?
is that what you are quoting above ?
If not, you should use the diagnostic/ link rate page to validate the coax network first.

If you are measuring with a PC out to the internet, there are lots of variables in play. Check the link rate on the ethernet adapter as sometimes, they get stuck at 100 mbit instead of 1,000 mbit when the connection is made.
iperf with parallel streams would be what i would use for local network diagnosis with PCs.

if nothing is anomalous in the above, then most likely a poor termination or possibly a bad cable. In reality, 100mbit is plenty fast for normal household usage.