NETGEAR’s CES 2018 Announcements:

[Voxel]

Wish they could do it with the R7800 and port the OS as mentioned maybe then all the code that even Voxel cant get too would get fixed. Well I can dream

Killhippie, you are great dreamer . You make me laugh.

BTW,

even stock R7800 firmware is OpenWRT based. Granted it’s the older 12.09 Attitude Adjustment I believe.

AA is not so bad as a skeleton. And FYI my build is already rather LEDE internally.

I agree with Temchenko:

I think that XR500 have same HW under the hood.

Let's see.

Voxel.

 

[sfx2000]

Memory: 128 MB flash and 512 MB RAM

Just find it sad that vendors pass off stuff to consumers with minimal NAND/RAM these days as high end devices...

RAM is cheap - and the storage options (NAND)...

 

[Voxel]

It’s probably pretty much the same plus the extra 128 MB of NAND flash. Initial OS testing was done on the R7800 prior to release. Basically Duma overlay with one of the settings in the menu labeled as “Netgear Settings” which contains the main settings you would see in a standard Netgear router laid out as usual.

Just FYI: I've browsed their firmware (unpacked binary, link kindly passed me by Killhippie). Most visible differences:

1. They start to support OpenVPN client.
2. In my understanding, they added something with the name "Smart Connect", the same as for R9000 in latest stock. With "router analitics".
3. Few packages are upgraded to more recent version, such as libjson-c and liblua and OpenVPN 2.4.3. Still no acceleration of OpenSSL (version 1.0.2h, 2016).
4. Size of FW is increased. It was max 25MB for R7800. It is 32MB for XR500.
5. This add-on "DumaOS".
5. The same QoS (and as I see the same bug in cron for QoS ).



So hardware is basically the same plus new box and additional NAND.

Voxel.

 

[Voxel]

It is only me who's post are "awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors"? I did not have such message until today.

Voxel.

 

[Voxel]

Another attempt to post:

Just FYI: I've browsed their firmware (unpacked binary, link kindly passed me by Killhippie). Most visible differences:

1. They added OpenVPN client.
2. In my understanding, they added something with the name "Smart Connect", the same as for R9000 in latest stock. With "router analitics".
3. Few packages are upgraded to more recent version, such as libjson-c and liblua and OpenVPN 2.4.3. Still no acceleration of OpenSSL (version 1.0.2h, 2016).
4. Size of FW is increased. It was max 25MB for R7800. It is 32MB for XR500.
5. This add-on "DumaOS".
5. The same QoS (and as I see the same bug in cron for QoS ).



So hardware is basically the same plus new box and additional NAND.

Voxel.

 

[XSXS]

Another attempt to post:

Just FYI: I've browsed their firmware (unpacked binary, link kindly passed me by Killhippie). Most visible differences:

1. They added OpenVPN client.
2. In my understanding, they added something with the name "Smart Connect", the same as for R9000 in latest stock. With "router analitics".
3. Few packages are upgraded to more recent version, such as libjson-c and liblua and OpenVPN 2.4.3. Still no acceleration of OpenSSL (version 1.0.2h, 2016).
4. Size of FW is increased. It was max 25MB for R7800. It is 32MB for XR500.
5. This add-on "DumaOS".
5. The same QoS (and as I see the same bug in cron for QoS ).



So hardware is basically the same plus new box and additional NAND.

Voxel.

What about the Geo Filter feature? I think that is the most important feature of the Duma OS?... Also what do you mean the same QoS? Same QoS as what?

 

[Voxel]

What about the Geo Filter feature? I think that is the most important feature of the Duma OS?...

I am not familiar with details of DumaOS. And I do not have this router so I can only guess that it is there . I see just folder with name DumaOS and startup script "dumaos".

Also what do you mean the same QoS? Same QoS as what?

The same as in R7800. QCA QoS, not e.g. Trend-Micro as in R9000.

Voxel.

 

[XSXS]

I am not familiar with details of DumaOS. And I do not have this router so I can only guess that it is there . I see just folder with name DumaOS and startup script "dumaos".

The same as in R7800. QCA QoS, not e.g. Trend-Micro as in R9000.

Voxel.

Hmm that is odd, I have no issues posting. I have the R7800 and the Netduma R1. I was under the impression that the QoS on the Netduma was a different than NG QoS, but IDK. However Come to think of it, the R1 does have issues with a lot bandwidth. Which probably due to the bug with CTF being disabled???

 

[avtella]

It’s Duma’s QoS, Streamboost at least in testing was not available under “Netgear Settings”.

 

[Voxel]

It’s Duma’s QoS, Streamboost at least in testing was not available under “Netgear Settings”.

I cannot say definitely, but I see in the list of installed packages of unpacked firmware:

qdiscman, app-flow-scripts, p0f-db, wopr-db, streamboost-misc. drflocs etc. This is QoS packages in R7800. For example description of wopr-db from the list of installed packages (XR500-V2.0.0.28.img):

Package: wopr-db
Version: 20150813165303-gea65011-generic-1
Depends: libc
Provides: 
Source: qca/feeds/customers-qualcomm-ap148/wopr-db
Section: opt
Status: unknown ok not-installed
Essential: no
Priority: optional
Maintainer: Ryan Nowakowski <rnowakow@qca.qualcomm.com>
Architecture: all
Installed-Size: 26137
Description:  Flow definitions for drflocs

Source: qca/feeds/customers-qualcomm-ap148/wopr-db

Maybe it is wrongly installed packages (e.g. for R9000 with AL-514 I can see some ipq806x scripts), but they are installed in XR500 firmware.

Voxel.

 

[RMerlin]

It is only me who's post are "awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors"? I did not have such message until today.

Voxel.

Happens from time to time. With the flood of spammers that hit the forums this week, Tim probably had to tighten the spam control settings.

When that happens, just be patient. A forum moderator will eventually approve the post.

 

[Internet Man]

I am not familiar with details of DumaOS. And I do not have this router so I can only guess that it is there . I see just folder with name DumaOS and startup script "dumaos".

The same as in R7800. QCA QoS, not e.g. Trend-Micro as in R9000.

Voxel.

There was a pretty intense flood of spam within the past few days that seemed to relate to various scams. That's probably why your posts were help up for moderator review.

 

[thiggins]

It is only me who's post are "awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors"? I did not have such message until today.

We have had a lot of spammers over the past couple of days. Additional keyword blocks have been added that you and others are tripping.

Be patient and your posts will be released when I or other mods see them. You are not being singled out for special attention.

 

[Killhippie]

What about the Geo Filter feature? I think that is the most important feature of the Duma OS?... Also what do you mean the same QoS? Same QoS as what?

Doesn't the Geo Filter ultimately rely on your ISP's peering points though or am I missing something? The asking price for a much larger case, 128mb more NAND and the DumaOS seems prohibitive to me, also I would want to see how effective it really is. For now the R7800 works as I want (and can fit where it needs to be)

 

[XSXS]

Doesn't the Geo Filter ultimately rely on your ISP's peering points though or am I missing something? The asking price for a much larger case, 128mb more NAND and the DumaOS seems prohibitive to me, also I would want to see how effective it really is. For now the R7800 works as I want (and can fit where it needs to be)

The geo filter from my experience is very effective. Basically you can control what server or host you want to play on. If the west coast server is laggy, I can move my geo filter location to the east coast and play on those servers or host. So basically I can control my ping to the server, however the geo filter does not control who else connects to the server or host. For right now I am using the R1 as my main router and the 7800 as an access point.

 

[Razor512]

The geo filters in their software (as seen in their older router), basically restricts IPs based on general location, e.g., if you only want match making to connect you with hosts who are within 500 miles of you, then you can limit the range.

beyond that, it seems that their main focus is just making QOS and throughput management to be as user friendly as possible.

One thing that I wonder is why are router makers not making larger improvements in hardware.
If a $400 phone can have 6GB of RAM and 64GB of storage , why can't we at least get a router with something more like 4GB of RAM, 8GB of storage, a faster SOC (something at least on the level of a snapdragon 821), and have it cost around $200-250? This should be possible since they don't need to have an expensive AMOLED display or multiple cameras on the device, or a cellular radio which may carry other annoying license fees.


Anyway, If netgear could make a router with netduma but add more advanced network settings, that could be a good move.

 

[Killhippie]

The geo filters in their software (as seen in their older router), basically restricts IPs based on general location, e.g., if you only want match making to connect you with hosts who are within 500 miles of you, then you can limit the range.

beyond that, it seems that their main focus is just making QOS and throughput management to be as user friendly as possible.

One thing that I wonder is why are router makers not making larger improvements in hardware.
If a $400 phone can have 6GB of RAM and 64GB of storage , why can't we at least get a router with something more like 4GB of RAM, 8GB of storage, a faster SOC (something at least on the level of a snapdragon 821), and have it cost around $200-250? This should be possible since they don't need to have an expensive AMOLED display or multiple cameras on the device, or a cellular radio which may carry other annoying license fees.


Anyway, If netgear could make a router with netduma but add more advanced network settings, that could be a good move.

QoS and throughput is hardly complicated in the r7800 it’s just buggy and rarely updated sadly.

I agree routers could have more ram and more powerful SoC’s but like smartphones how much is really needed? Routers with limited specs should not cost this much but if people are prepared to buy them at this price point the companies will keep making them. Many devices are stagnating at the moment it feels and adding features that are useful vs gimmicky seems to be a difficult balance.

I would rather have more secure firmware with regular updates so with that
the various software packages are updated with each release as needed rather than use 10 year old code for instance. Also if you’re going to use QoS like streamboost it should be updated regularly, the R7800 was last updated in April 2017.

Gaming routers as far as I see are a bit of a gimmick maybe, but we all have different views. If my ISP has 700 peering points I hope I will get the best connection to the server via my network as often as possible hopefully but if I have a router with geo filters but limited investment in my ISP’s network and I want to limit to servers with that are closer or have a more direct route that surely depends on the way my ISP is set up? Also it depends where the servers are in relation to what country I’m in I would imagine. If my ISP does not have deals with certain data centres to provide more direct connections what can my router do about that?

I think a lot is down to the ISP here. I guess in the UK we have more competition with niche providers set up to provide this service already than say the US although I’m in uncharted waters here. How much the router can help here only time will tell though.

 

[Razor512]

The QOS in the R7800 is not complicated, but that is only because it has almost no control. I feel the ideal is offering more advanced/ in-depth controls while still being easy to use.

While we probably would not see this, imagine if a router maker could design a QOS system that could adapt to inconsistent throughput (where throughput in the evening drops significantly), imagine if the router's QOS could simply detect when your WAN connection is being saturated, rather than you having to specify a speed that may only be valid for part of the day?

User friendly QOS is one area that is in need of massive improvement, ideally I would like to see it get closer to how task manager in windows can manage CPU time.

 

[Sizzlechest]

Netgear purposly gimps their firmware on consumer products. What's the reason why port forwarding must be the same port on the router and destination?

 

[NETGEAR Guy]

In spirit of discussion here on XR500 QoS and other features, you can view the videos below that shows the value added benefits of DumaOS features:

- Introducing the XR500 Nighthawk Pro Gaming Router by NETGEAR:

- Geo-Filter | Nighthawk Pro Gaming:

- Network Monitor | Nighthawk Pro Gaming:

- Quality of Service (QoS) | Nighthawk Pro Gaming:

- Gaming Dashboard | Nighthawk Pro Gaming: