New House Network Design - UVerse ISP

[jcwillia1]

looking to buy a couple pieces of equipment for new house - trouble is I really don't know what I'm buying.

I need to translate the AT&T modem into four separate ethernet ports : two for WAPs, two for wired access.

Do I need routers or switches for wired access?

looking at this which has a really sweet deal right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156309

 

[tipstir]

I think you may have misread my comments - I went to Comcast last May - there is no Comcast service in my new neighborhood and they have no plans to bring it there.

Oh so AT&T is your what you have then. Whatever speed the offer you just have to take it. Those I know have the service tell me they're happy with it. But found ways to save money with them on it.

 

[tipstir]

looking to buy a couple pieces of equipment for new house - trouble is I really don't know what I'm buying.

I need to translate the AT&T modem into four separate ethernet ports : two for WAPs, two for wired access.

Do I need routers or switches for wired access?

looking at this which has a really sweet deal right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156309

Yes, but that equipment will fail it doesn't hold up so well are very limited in performance wise. I have them here and replaced them with SMB managed switches and manage routers. Much better. Cost is slightly higher but you can get deals online.

I use to have 32 nodes but here it's like 16 nodes for wired network and wireless nodes are like 24 nodes. Nodes means devices.

Cable Modem
Ubee

Wired Router
ER6120

Wireless Router (used only as WAP)
ESR600H

Switch
SG3216

NAS
NSA325

Network HD Tuners
HDHomeRun (2)

Media Network/Internet Players
SONY SMP-N100 (6)
SONY SMP-N200 (2)
SONY BD (2)

Desktop
(Win7-64b) (5)

Laptop
(Win7-64b) (2)

Netbook
(Win7-32b) & (Win8-32b) (2)

Tablet
(Win7-64b) (1)
(Android) (9)

Smartphone
(Android) (10)

Console
Wii (1)

 

[jcwillia1]

Yes, but that equipment will fail it doesn't hold up so well are very limited in performance wise. I have them here and replaced them with SMB managed switches and manage routers. Much better. Cost is slightly higher but you can get deals online.

I use to have 32 nodes but here it's like 16 nodes for wired network and wireless nodes are like 24 nodes. Nodes means devices.

Cable Modem
Ubee

Wired Router
ER6120

Wireless Router (used only as WAP)
ESR600H

Switch
SG3216

NAS
NSA325

Network HD Tuners
HDHomeRun (2)

Media Network/Internet Players
SONY SMP-N100 (6)
SONY SMP-N200 (2)
SONY BD (2)

Desktop
(Win7-64b) (5)

Laptop
(Win7-64b) (2)

Netbook
(Win7-32b) & (Win8-32b) (2)

Tablet
(Win7-64b) (1)
(Android) (9)

Smartphone
(Android) (10)

Console
Wii (1)

thanks - so apparently there is a version that sells for $9 more that has a metal exterior and won't overheat as much - how do you feel about that?

I really need to buy another router here in the next couple weeks and my budget is woefully overstretched with appliances, decks and moving trucks as it is.

 

[tipstir]

thanks - so apparently there is a version that sells for $9 more that has a metal exterior and won't overheat as much - how do you feel about that?

I really need to buy another router here in the next couple weeks and my budget is woefully overstretched with appliances, decks and moving trucks as it is.

Those are unmanged switches down the road you going to wish you had a managed one. How many devices do you have to installed?

Well the ER6120 isn't cheap but you can get the ER6020. I don't know what your budget is for network gear? I had to shop around for what I needed. ESR600H was selling very cheap but somehow it's really jump in price. New one ESR600 really cheap though. How much square footage you have to deal with?

Yes I have replaced all major appliances also. Those are not cheap. I wanted those with a smart chip inside plus to save on energy and water. Even replaced the HOT WATER tank and the entire house central AC/Heating. Make sure you get a Smart Temp Programmable TS (touch screen) Thermostat, saves in a lot of money in the end!

 

[jcwillia1]

Those are unmanged switches down the road you going to wish you had a managed one. How many devices do you have to installed?

Well the ER6120 isn't cheap but you can get the ER6020. I don't know what your budget is for network gear? I had to shop around for what I needed. ESR600H was selling very cheap but somehow it's really jump in price. New one ESR600 really cheap though. How much square footage you have to deal with?

I'm not replacing appliances, spending $6k on new.

Re devices everything can go wireless (except for NAS and TV), would just prefer to wire things that go to the office (PC/laptop/360) and the TV room (TV, 360, HTIB, U-Verse, NAS)

as far as budget goes, I really don't have one. I'm already 6 months behind because the builder neglected to mention there would be a 4.5 foot drop at the sliding glass door which necessitated the building of a full back deck.

I'm also planning to build a theater room at some point so there will likely be a lot of tech updates at that time. At the moment, I just need something cheap that will work out of the box without hours and hours of frustrating setup/tinkering.

 

[jcwillia1]

So just to re-set what we're looking at : trying to get u-verse modem in the basement wires to TV, phone, and 3 routers, 2 WAPs.

At the moment all I have is one wireless router (Black Diamond) so I need one router for the basement, one for the TV room, one for the office.

I guess technically in a pinch the U-Verse Modem could take the place of the basement router (4 connections) and then the Black Diamond could take the place of the TV router. Then I have just a single ethernet connection in the office and really crappy wireless coverage in the house at least until I get going...

 

[tipstir]

Your schematics for your setup shows that you need main router and a couple of access points to fill in any dead spots in your new home. Where are the main lines coming into play here. Yes th eU-Verse does support Modem/-WiFi Router. I would get the Modem version and then buy yourself SMB ER6120 then you can configure it to WAN port to match the current throughput speed. Instead of un-managed routers everything is set to auto. Then the LAN ports can be managed to whatever the device can work with 100 or 1000mbps. Something you should consider.

What are all your Wireless devices like? 802.11g, 802.11n @ 2.4GHz or 802.11n @ 5GHz. Do you own Android phone you can download a free app called WiFi Analyzer what you do with that is use the meter mode. Walk around your place and see how well the WiFi is. Called WiFi Survey.

They do have stronger WiFi Access Points today you might consider getting one. The SMB ones are stronger in range. Something to consider. I didn't that route because there wasn't one I was interested in. Today some better ones out there.

Well get the ER6120 not that hard to setup. If you need help just ask for it here. A few us here have it. I'll be around more on this forum now. Buy the best one now and save on spending more and more later on other brands.

Same with the switch the one I had mention is really good. Again they're not complex. Your going to build a home theater so you need good to very good equipment.

Here I use in every room has Surround Sound System. I've spend a bit more but a good deal on SONY True HD 7.1. That goes with the SONY HDTVs. Both the Master Bed and Living Room have the same type of setup. Also my background is in electronic in this field but comes in handy. Master Bedroom has 10.1 instead so 7.1. I know I good with surround sound configuration and setup.

Other rooms have 5.1 and in the outdoor patio same system. Got to enjoy it.

 

[stevech]

So just to re-set what we're looking at : trying to get u-verse modem in the basement wires to TV, phone, and 3 routers, 2 WAPs.

At the moment all I have is one wireless router (Black Diamond) so I need one router for the basement, one for the TV room, one for the office.

I guess technically in a pinch the U-Verse Modem could take the place of the basement router (4 connections) and then the Black Diamond could take the place of the TV router. Then I have just a single ethernet connection in the office and really crappy wireless coverage in the house at least until I get going...

You'll need just one router per se - the one connected to the ISP service. If you want more coverage, use Access Points (APs), which are not routers. A router can be re-purposed as a (non-routing) AP. Easy to do. Or you can buy more costly purpose-built APs.

Don't cascade routers by connecting to WAN ports of what would be APs. this causes double-NAT and lots of other problems- since using these WAN ports causes there to be multiple routers, rather than one router and APs.

 

[jcwillia1]

at the risk of seeming not gracious, can I ask for more recommendations?

I googled http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077AXF4E/?tag=snbforums-20

I'm really sorry but there's no way on earth that I'm ever spending $230 on a router. I would rather replace a $20 router 10 times if I had to. Also, this appears to only have three outputs which wouldn't meet my needs or am I confused on that?

I don't understand the difference between switch, router, access point, managed and unmanaged.

 

[tipstir]

at the risk of seeming not gracious, can I ask for more recommendations?

I googled http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077AXF4E/?tag=snbforums-20

I'm really sorry but there's no way on earth that I'm ever spending $230 on a router. I would rather replace a $20 router 10 times if I had to. Also, this appears to only have three outputs which wouldn't meet my needs or am I confused on that?

I don't understand the difference between switch, router, access point, managed and unmanaged.

I had paid more but the lowest on this $229 but you pay for what you get. Mine been running since 8.1.12 no issues. I had spend over $400 on two top end home routers from Linksys EA4xxx series those are both duff now. Only lasted me like 6 months or less each. Again you pay less now and in the end you pay more because you should have gone with right now.

You can buy whatever you want. There are so many routers on the market today. I will never by home router again. The ER6120 well made.

Like I had said this router allows you to configure it more your not limited like the other cloud base or non-cloud base routers out there. ER6120 can be put in auto more or you can configure the ports.

Auto (un-managed)
These are the routers out there today. SOHO (Small Office/Home Office) Belkin, Linksys, DLINK, TPLINK etc.


Auto (un-managed) plus Auto/10/100/1000 managed
Now there is SMB (Small Business) Routers
ER6120 fall under this.

Better security
Better features
Either full and mini rack mounted chassis
Etc.

So these type of routers you can go in and change ports settings on WAN and LAN. Where as the Auto un-manage they're set to auto. These routers aren't cheaper.

I know that the ER6120 has a lot of features but you can disable what you do need to use. That's what I do here. Plus I wanted something that was going to give me years of operation without fussing with it. Now and then, there are firmware updates but that's minor.

Everyone going to buy what they need to use. Your said you building a network then you got home theater. This router will take care of that. The other routers that cost less then to can't handle heavy loads. They're design for smaller home network.

Anyway you can read more of what you get here on SNB router ratings.

 

[jcwillia1]

again apologies, I'm not trying to be rude but paying $200 for any piece of networking tech is not happening. I'm not a small business, I'm an individual and not a particularly wealthy one at that.

can we get back to some terminology? managed vs unmanaged? switch vs router?

 

[tipstir]

again apologies, I'm not trying to be rude but paying $200 for any piece of networking tech is not happening. I'm not a small business, I'm an individual and not a particularly wealthy one at that.

can we get back to some terminology? managed vs unmanaged? switch vs router?

Nothing to to do with small business. Just those type of devices are made to withstand anything you throw at it. Small businesses usually have either work-group or domain. These routers can handle anything you want. Everyone needs are different in every case that's why there are so many different models available based on needs.

Managed
You can change the ports settings.
WAN and LAN are not fixed or locked down.
There is a switch you can configure:

Rate Control but the number of ports
Example: Lets say your internet speed is 50 mbps down and 10 mbps uploads
Port: 1 Was your WAN (internet) port:

Ingress Limit: Enabled
Ingress Mode: Broadcast
Ingress Rate Mbps): 73
Egress Limit: Enabled
Egress Rate Mbps): 12

Ingress what's coming in
Egress what's going out

Port Config
Since we now in this example that Port 1 is the WAN (internet) (aka IN port)
In this setting you would enable or disable that port
You can also enable or disable Flow Control
Finally you can change the Negotiation Mode (Auto, 10FD/HD, 100FD/HD, 1000FD/HD)

Way to end points transmit or communicate to and from the remote host

FD = Full Duplex (enabled)
HD = Half Duplex

Also for what ports you don't use can disabled them.

Port Status
Port 1 - Status: Link up (means it connected)
Speed: 1000mbps
Duplex Mode: FD
Flow Control: Disabled / enabled if your using HD or FD but both end have to have it enabled on network adapters. If you don't you best just disable it.

UnManage (Router/Switch)
You can't change the ports settings
WAN and LAN are fixed or locked down.
Everything above would be locked by the factory settings.

Now on Router you can changes some settings depends on the brand of router you have. Most cripple a lot of settings so consumers don't get confused in higher tech stuff.

All unmanaged switches are just plug and play. Just connect your PCs to it and just plug in the power. That's it.

Managed switches you can do the same but you can control the flow of data by the port speed also enable flow control.

For each port say 8, 16, 24, 36, 48.
Lets say you have 16 port switch
Port 1 Description: Living Room
Status: Enabled
Speed/Duplex: 1000MFD
Flow Control: Disabled
LAG: - (this would show the port number it belongs under the LAG Table)

Also Managed Switches have Layer of Extra Security you can use. I won't get into all of that. . Just the basics.

 

[jcwillia1]

My preferences are functionality over control and security.

So to get back to my $20 gigabit router - is this a good pick for me if I don't want to monkey around with settings a lot?

I'm starting to feel like a fish out of water in this thread

 

[tipstir]

My preferences are functionality over control and security.

So to get back to my $20 gigabit router - is this a good pick for me if I don't want to monkey around with settings a lot?

I'm starting to feel like a fish out of water in this thread

Still have to configure those of course you can choose the simple way of using the Router Setup Wizard and WPS (WiFi Protection Setup) on WiFi devices.

I don't know which wireless gig router you have in mind for $20 bucks. You were showing the Trendent 8 port switch a while back in post.

 

[stevech]

managed ethernet switches...
There's also the category of "lightly managed". I have one at home - 8 port gigE. Netgear GS108 as I recall.
Manage it via LAN - and Netgear app on PC.
setup VLANs, port mirroring (which is why I got it, so that wireshark can eavesdrop for debugging purposes in my embedded systems job. Also rate controls as I recall.

Also logs some stats.

Light because these are low cost and have only the basics.

I got mine on eBay, used-like-new, about $60.
I've always though Netgear makes good switches, in the Pro line (metal enclosures, lifetime warranty means quality has to be way above consumer stuff).

 

[stevech]

My preferences are functionality over control and security.

So to get back to my $20 gigabit router - is this a good pick for me if I don't want to monkey around with settings a lot?

I'm starting to feel like a fish out of water in this thread

Suggest not. Get a mainstream 11n WiFi router and be done with it. Like Belkin or LInksys.

I think the rule of thumb is cost of manufacturing, less R&D, less sales/marketing/profit, is about 1/4 of the retail price. Gives one pause, what they have to do to make a decent $5-10 router selling at retail for 3-4 times that.

 

[mlg321]

again apologies, I'm not trying to be rude but paying $200 for any piece of networking tech is not happening. I'm not a small business, I'm an individual and not a particularly wealthy one at that.

can we get back to some terminology? managed vs unmanaged? switch vs router?

How many users do you plan to have online at its busiest time? How many wireless devices do you plan to use? (Smart phones, iPads, WiFi thermostat etc)

If you don't know the difference between a switch and router, I suggest getting local professional help you set up your network. Or you could get a mainstream router with wifi and an additional access point to increase converge. (Belkin, Linksys, Apple, Amped Wireless, Netgear).

You only need ONE router on your network, any additional routers need to be in bridge or access point mode connected via ethernet to extend your WiFi. Some routers and bridges can be used a switches as well. Normally you will see one WAN port that connects to your modem, and 1,2,3,4 or 5 LAN ports. LAN ports will effectively work as a switch.

Modem: connects to your ISP. In your case, AT&T.
Router: connects to your modem, provides routing, IP assignment, and security.
Switch: connects to your router & access points. Interconnects your network to your router, such as a desktop PC or anything ethernet based.
Access point: connects to either your switch or router, and acts as your WiFi signal. Ethernet connections at your switch and wireless clients on WiFi are on the same network.

Managed switch:
Turn particular port range on or off
Link bandwidth and duplex settings
Priority settings for ports
IP Management by IP Clustering
Etc...

Unmanaged switch:
No config or options. Plug and play.

 

[jcwillia1]

How many users do you plan to have online at its busiest time? How many wireless devices do you plan to use? (Smart phones, iPads, WiFi thermostat etc)

'

5 - 2 adults, 3 kids

2 iphones, 3 ipads, up to 4 laptops, possibly a gaming device (wii, 360) or 2 - I don't think the Wii can go wired.

If you don't know the difference between a switch and router, I suggest getting local professional help

I'm trying to save money

You only need ONE router on your network, any additional routers need to be in bridge or access point mode connected via ethernet to extend your WiFi. Some routers and bridges can be used a switches as well. Normally you will see one WAN port that connects to your modem, and 1,2,3,4 or 5 LAN ports. LAN ports will effectively work as a switch.

This is awesome information - thank you. I believe the U-Verse modem can function as a router? Not ideal but in a pinch for the short term?

Modem: connects to your ISP. In your case, AT&T.
Router: connects to your modem, provides routing, IP assignment, and security.
Switch: connects to your router & access points. Interconnects your network to your router, such as a desktop PC or anything ethernet based.
Access point: connects to either your switch or router, and acts as your WiFi signal. Ethernet connections at your switch and wireless clients on WiFi are on the same network.

Managed switch:
Turn particular port range on or off
Link bandwidth and duplex settings
Priority settings for ports
IP Management by IP Clustering
Etc...

Unmanaged switch:
No config or options. Plug and play.

This is terrific - thanks for the glossary.

So on the one hand, I really REALLY don't want to play around with router/switch/access point

but on the other hand I want the best performance for my network including multiplayer gaming on XBox 360/One (I'm no pro but I do appreciate a lag free gaming experience) and video streaming around the house from the NAS.

I'm beginning to understand that those two desires may be at odds with one another. Sigh Sorry I've just got a lot going on with the move right now and learning home networking wasn't something I had planned on

 

[mlg321]

'

5 - 2 adults, 3 kids

2 iphones, 3 ipads, up to 4 laptops, possibly a gaming device (wii, 360) or 2 - I don't think the Wii can go wired.



I'm trying to save money



This is awesome information - thank you. I believe the U-Verse modem can function as a router? Not ideal but in a pinch for the short term?



This is terrific - thanks for the glossary.

So on the one hand, I really REALLY don't want to play around with router/switch/access point

but on the other hand I want the best performance for my network including multiplayer gaming on XBox 360/One (I'm no pro but I do appreciate a lag free gaming experience) and video streaming around the house from the NAS.

I'm beginning to understand that those two desires may be at odds with one another. Sigh Sorry I've just got a lot going on with the move right now and learning home networking wasn't something I had planned on

Typically ATT U-Verse is a modem&router combo. However, like others have suggested, ask them JUST for the modem and you provide a router. A home user router has WiFi capabilities, like the brands I suggested. You can add NAS via USB to most of these. Western Digital do good routers and even have one with built in storage and time machine capabilities for Macs http://www.wdc.com/en/products/network/routers/.

Are you building your home pre-wired with ethernet?

The advantage of using your own router with WiFi is that you can add additional access points to your network easily via ethernet. I don't know how ATT goes about providing extra access points. There are routers without WiFi, and I don't recommend going that route.

To "daisy chain" access points back to your router via ethernet they need to be the same brand. You can't use ATT's router with WiFi then 2 Belkin access points.

This is harder to explain over text I can imagine how hard this must be to understand.

EDIT: I looked over your OP, your ethernet lines all need to be run back to a central place. If you only have one ethernet on the two additional floors to the basement, you won't need to worry about a switch as long as your router has 2/3 LAN ports depending on if it has WiFi capability, as I suggested.