[Official Release] AiMesh Firmware v3.0.0.4.384.20308 for All Supported Products

[gculley01]

Thanks, that article says volumes. The main point being that it's ultimately the client that does the switching, coaxed perhaps by the router.
I'm currently re-evaluating my router needs. I bought 2 86U's for the mesh capability, but really I can get all the roaming capability I need out of one router and an AP. A single router on the main floor also gives me good performance all over the house (140 Mbps minimum everywhere), so my AP is simply there to boost performance to the max in the basement.
I'm also not really convinced that there is any value added to AIMesh over an AP when all routers are on an Ethernet backbone. Both configurations are only as seamless as my client device permits.
I also don't like having the 2.4 Ghz band blasting 1 watt of power in my family room where we are all within about 10 feet of it. Since Asus no longer supports reducing the power of any band, I may just return the two units and perhaps get a couple of Dlink DIR-885Us at Costco.

 

[RandomName23]

Thanks, that article says volumes. The main point being that it's ultimately the client that does the switching, coaxed perhaps by the router.
I'm currently re-evaluating my router needs. I bought 2 86U's for the mesh capability, but really I can get all the roaming capability I need out of one router and an AP. A single router on the main floor also gives me good performance all over the house (140 Mbps minimum everywhere), so my AP is simply there to boost performance to the max in the basement.
I'm also not really convinced that there is any value added to AIMesh over an AP when all routers are on an Ethernet backbone. Both configurations are only as seamless as my client device permits.
I also don't like having the 2.4 Ghz band blasting 1 watt of power in my family room where we are all within about 10 feet of it. Since Asus no longer supports reducing the power of any band, I may just return the two units and perhaps get a couple of Dlink DIR-885Us at Costco.

Yup, I currently have one router and one mesh node and found that I get better speeds if I decrease the Tx power on all radios on the main router. You can't decrease the Tx power on the node but you can on the main router. I'm actually debating on getting rid of the mesh node because I think if I move the location of main router I can cover my entire house, sometimes it's a matter of placement.

When using the ethernet backhaul (especially if you only have one AP) about the only thing you will lose is the centralized management and you will probably gain a lot more control over the AP than if it were a mesh node. Also, even if it is in AP mode you should still be able to use roaming assist?

 

[gculley01]

Yup, I currently have one router and one mesh node and found that I get better speeds if I decrease the Tx power on all radios on the main router. You can't decrease the Tx power on the node but you can on the main router. I'm actually debating on getting rid of the mesh node because I think if I move the location of main router I can cover my entire house, sometimes it's a matter of placement.

When using the ethernet backhaul (especially if you only have one AP) about the only thing you will lose is the centralized management and you will probably gain a lot more control over the AP than if it were a mesh node.

Unfortunately the 86U won't let me decrease the power on even the main router. If I could do that then I'd be inclined to keep the 2 routers, or at least the main one.

 

[Quad80]

I would encourage everyone here to take a minute to read this article and the discussion forum that it is linked to at the bottom. Some good information here that answers a lot of questions here that have been asked over and over. I think an important takeaway is that a lot of times in residential wifi less is more.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/33180-how-to-fix-wi-fi-roaming

Damn, that's an awesome article. I can't say all of it was fully digested by my brain, but it was pretty easy to understand overall. I found this nugget particularly relevant:

Contrary to what consumer Wi-Fi marketeers would like you to believe, Mesh Wi-Fi Systems contain no magic to smoothly guide your devices to the best connection.

That, to me, pretty much confirms what I initially thought: that "mesh" is largely, if not completely, a marketing term. Yes, it can mean centralized setup and configuration, which is cool, but it largely just makes the process of setting up an AP easier for the lay person. Serves a purpose, but isn't some kind of new tech.

And this:

The STA is the boss when it comes to roaming, making almost all decisions about when and where to roam. But the AP can influence the roaming process through the methods below. In all cases, however, the STA makes the final decision on where to roam.

pretty much confirms the client is the be-all-end-all decision maker on swapping nodes/signals, meaning the "mesh" or AP or whatever, have some input, but they can be ignored/overruled by clients that may or may not really know what they're doing.

I have to say, I only just joined this forum by chance and it's already been one of the most helpful, insightful, and friendly communities. At least, these Asus threads are. I never feel completely ignored or like the dumbass I am. Nice!

 

[RandomName23]

That, to me, pretty much confirms what I initially thought: that "mesh" is largely, if not completely, a marketing term. Yes, it can mean centralized setup and configuration, which is cool, but it largely just makes the process of setting up an AP easier for the lay person. Serves a purpose, but isn't some kind of new tech.

One thing to add is that Asus has mentioned that with Aimesh there is some communication between the nodes that occurs that you wouldn't have if you were using regular APs (I suspect this is typical of most mesh networks). So if you only have one mesh node probably not a big deal, but if you have multiple mesh nodes this could be something you might want, especially if one of the nodes were to fail as the communication would then know the node failed and it would heal the network.

 

[Quad80]

One thing to add is that Asus has mentioned that with Aimesh there is some communication between the nodes that occurs that you wouldn't have if you were using regular APs (I suspect this is typical of most mesh networks). So if you only have one mesh node probably not a big deal, but if you have multiple mesh nodes this could be something you might want, especially if one of the nodes were to fail as the communication would then know the node failed and it would heal the network.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's still the client that has to determine what, if anything, to do. So even if there is some kind of backend stuff going on with the mesh, it may or may not actually help in real world performance, is what I'm seeing. I mean, I would expect that if one of my nodes/APs stopped broadcasting, my client would eventually pick up on the router or another node/AP. Maybe I just don't understand what "healing" is in the context of mesh.

 

[RandomName23]

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's still the client that has to determine what, if anything, to do. So even if there is some kind of backend stuff going on with the mesh, it may or may not actually help in real world performance, is what I'm seeing. I mean, I would expect that if one of my nodes/APs stopped broadcasting, my client would eventually pick up on the router or another node/AP. Maybe I just don't understand what "healing" is in the context of mesh.

I think this applies if you daisy chaining the nodes in the mesh. Pictures are always better for me so look at this page https://www.asus.com/aimesh/ and look at the picture where it talks about self-healing. Does that make sense? If not I can try. Say you have the following

router -> node1 -> node2 -> node3

These are all daisy chained together, so if node2 goes down, node3 is screwed but with aimesh it will know node2 is down and connect node3 to node1 or the router if the signals are strong enough. If all nodes connected directly to the router it wouldn't be an issue but then it's not a mesh network either.

 

[Quad80]

I think this applies if you daisy chaining the nodes in the mesh. Pictures are always better for me so look at this page https://www.asus.com/aimesh/ and look at the picture where it talks about self-healing. Does that make sense?

Yes and no. I mean, I get what it's doing, but I don't get the practical benefit that comes from it. The one node goes down, so the client has to reconnect to the third. If the client is calling the shots to begin with, it has no choice but to switch to the third node (or the router, depending). What is the mesh actually doing other than being forced to communicate around the dead node (i.e., directly to the third/end node in the example)? If it didn't, then it'd be a pretty pointless design overall, I would think, no? And it has to go through the second node at some point, otherwise it may as well not even be there. Sorry if I'm being dense here, I just don't get it.

 

[RandomName23]

Yes and no. I mean, I get what it's doing, but I don't get the practical benefit that comes from it. The one node goes down, so the client has to reconnect to the third. If the client is calling the shots to begin with, it has no choice but to switch to the third node (or the router, depending). What is the mesh actually doing other than being forced to communicate around the dead node (i.e., directly to the third/end node in the example)? If it didn't, then it'd be a pretty pointless design overall, I would think, no? And it has to go through the second node at some point, otherwise it may as well not even be there. Sorry if I'm being dense here, I just don't get it.

Don't worry about where the clients are connecting for the moment as the self-healing is about how the nodes connect to each other.

In a mesh network you can connect devices to the main device but you can also connect nodes to other nodes. So if you had

router -> node1 -> node2 -> node3

If node2 goes down, how does node3 get a connection to the router? In the world of aimesh it will self-heal and connect node3 to either node1 or directly to the router whichever it can get the strongest signal to. If you had node3 directly wired to the router to begin with self-healing doesn't buy you a lot, but if node3 is using wireless backhauls it does help you out. Node3 could also be hard wired to node2 at which point it would switch from ethernet backhaul to wireless backhaul automatically and connect to node1 or to the router.

 

[Quad80]

Don't worry about where the clients are connecting for the moment as the self-healing is about how the nodes connect to each other.

In a mesh network you can connect devices to the main device but you can also connect nodes to other nodes. So if you had

router -> node1 -> node2 -> node3

If node2 goes down, how does node3 get a connection to the router? In the world of aimesh it will self-heal and connect node3 to either node1 or directly to the router whichever it can get the strongest signal to. If you had node3 directly wired to the router to begin with self-healing doesn't buy you a lot, but if node3 is using wireless backhauls it does help you out. Node3 could also be hard wired to node2 at which point it would switch from ethernet backhaul to wireless backhaul automatically and connect to node1 or to the router.

So it basically makes the most efficient node/router connection it can in a wireless environment, which in turn could effect the overall performance of connected clients. I suppose that makes sense in theory, but how significant those differences are I think may be more theoretical in many cases than practical, but since I'm no expert I really couldn't say. I just can't see most home environments getting anything major out of a mesh (as I currently understand it), aside from the better overall coverage it provides (but APs do this too). Perhaps I'm being dense, or underestimating the importance of those links between nodes/routers, though. That happens a lot.

 

[rt68u]

Hello everyone,
I have been a long-time lurker and this is my first post. I like to add my two cents in.
Everything works perfectly except for the occasional “offline node” which isn't a problem as it can easily get fix with a quick restart of the node.
Another problem I notice. I have a sever connected via Ethernet cable to a node, which is wireless connected to the AP. When transferring large amounts of data (above 50gb) from one comp to the server, that node would temporarily disconnected. Has anyone else encountered this problem with an attached NAS or server? I should note, before utilizing Aimesh, i ran Merlins firmware and have never encountered this problem when the node run as a repeater.
AP = rt68r
nodes = rt68u
Firmware on all = 3.0.0.4.384.20308

 

[RandomName23]

So it basically makes the most efficient node/router connection it can in a wireless environment, which in turn could effect the overall performance of connected clients. I suppose that makes sense in theory, but how significant those differences are I think may be more theoretical in many cases than practical, but since I'm no expert I really couldn't say. I just can't see most home environments getting anything major out of a mesh (as I currently understand it), aside from the better overall coverage it provides (but APs do this too). Perhaps I'm being dense, or underestimating the importance of those links between nodes/routers, though. That happens a lot.

I think being able to wirelessly daisy chain nodes is a plus for home environments but aside from that you are correct. Most mesh systems for the home are a product of great marketing and hype that make them appear more magical than they are. The one thing the mesh systems do is make it really easy for the lay person to setup a mesh wireless environment in their home that gives them great coverage and great speeds.

 

[RandomName23]

Hello everyone,
I have been a long-time lurker and this is my first post. I like to add my two cents in.
Everything works perfectly except for the occasional “offline node” which isn't a problem as it can easily get fix with a quick restart of the node.
Another problem I notice. I have a sever connected via Ethernet cable to a node, which is wireless connected to the AP. When transferring large amounts of data (above 50gb) from one comp to the server, that node would temporarily disconnected. Has anyone else encountered this problem with an attached NAS or server? I should note, before utilizing Aimesh, i ran Merlins firmware and have never encountered this problem when the node run as a repeater.
AP = rt68r
nodes = rt68u
Firmware on all = 3.0.0.4.384.20308

Did you do a complete factory reset and nvram clear after your flashed the 3.0.0.4.384.20308 firmware?

 

[rt68u]

Did you do a complete factory reset and nvram clear after your flashed the 3.0.0.4.384.20308 firmware?

Thank you random name23 for the reply.

Sorry if I was not clear. The node temporarily disconnects. It would reconnect but ceasing the transfer of data, and yes i did perform a reset with physical nvram clear but the problem still exists. I need to emphasize, this happen only with large amount of data transfer.

 

[Richard Li]

One thing to add is that Asus has mentioned that with Aimesh there is some communication between the nodes that occurs that you wouldn't have if you were using regular APs (I suspect this is typical of most mesh networks). So if you only have one mesh node probably not a big deal, but if you have multiple mesh nodes this could be something you might want, especially if one of the nodes were to fail as the communication would then know the node failed and it would heal the network.

Sometimes, you may have a dump client, so the communication between nodes are essential. Actually, I found that when AiMesh discovers that another node is better, it will kick off the client and tell the target node to accept the client and all others router/nodes will refuse to accept the connection temporary.

This logic can help dump client to connect to best node even it is too dump to do the switching automatically.

 

[Richard Li]

Hello everyone,
I have been a long-time lurker and this is my first post. I like to add my two cents in.
Everything works perfectly except for the occasional “offline node” which isn't a problem as it can easily get fix with a quick restart of the node.
Another problem I notice. I have a sever connected via Ethernet cable to a node, which is wireless connected to the AP. When transferring large amounts of data (above 50gb) from one comp to the server, that node would temporarily disconnected. Has anyone else encountered this problem with an attached NAS or server? I should note, before utilizing Aimesh, i ran Merlins firmware and have never encountered this problem when the node run as a repeater.
AP = rt68r
nodes = rt68u
Firmware on all = 3.0.0.4.384.20308

Yes, the current firmware still have a glitch in stability. However, the ASUS engineers are really good in helping to fix the problem. I am not sure if the problem that I encountered is related to yours, so if you can provide more details on your problem, they can track down the problem easily.

I have faith on ASUS, they can eventually make AiMesh rocks!

 

[Stephen Harrington]

Yes, the current firmware still have a glitch in stability. However, the ASUS engineers are really good in helping to fix the problem. I am not sure if the problem that I encountered is related to yours, so if you can provide more details on your problem, they can track down the problem easily.

I have faith on ASUS, they can eventually make AiMesh rocks!

If the Product Managers / Marketing department don't get distracted by the next new shiny thing and make the engineers stop refining and developing it
Let's hope!

StephenH

 

[SeeSawSam]

I read this entire thread, and one non-technical item kept getting my attention... that many of you have incredibly beefy routers, connected to quite beefy nodes (plural). What sort of house do you all live in, that you need that much hardware? My house is huge (9000 sq ft) spread over 3 floors. I have a deck and pool out back too. I use two AC86U's for all of it. When I walk around, I get great signal everywhere. Literally, I've done heatmaps, and the signals are strong throughout my huge house.

So, unless you guys are installing wifi for an apartment building... I just don't understand the need for so much hardware. And knowing how a over-abundance of signal can actually be a bad thing, I wonder how many of you are paying lots of $ to get less throughput.

Someone, set me straight.

 

[Richard Li]

I read this entire thread, and one non-technical item kept getting my attention... that many of you have incredibly beefy routers, connected to quite beefy nodes (plural). What sort of house do you all live in, that you need that much hardware? My house is huge (9000 sq ft) spread over 3 floors. I have a deck and pool out back too. I use two AC86U's for all of it. When I walk around, I get great signal everywhere. Literally, I've done heatmaps, and the signals are strong throughout my huge house.

So, unless you guys are installing wifi for an apartment building... I just don't understand the need for so much hardware. And knowing how a over-abundance of signal can actually be a bad thing, I wonder how many of you are paying lots of $ to get less throughput.

Someone, set me straight.

It depends on the materials used to construct the house or apartment. Wifi signal can be block by glass and concrete, but pass through wood pretty well. I bet your house is mainly build with wood or plaster.

 

[maxbraketorque]

I read this entire thread, and one non-technical item kept getting my attention... that many of you have incredibly beefy routers, connected to quite beefy nodes (plural). What sort of house do you all live in, that you need that much hardware? My house is huge (9000 sq ft) spread over 3 floors. I have a deck and pool out back too. I use two AC86U's for all of it. When I walk around, I get great signal everywhere. Literally, I've done heatmaps, and the signals are strong throughout my huge house.

So, unless you guys are installing wifi for an apartment building... I just don't understand the need for so much hardware. And knowing how a over-abundance of signal can actually be a bad thing, I wonder how many of you are paying lots of $ to get less throughput.

Someone, set me straight.

I have a two-floor 3500 sq ft ranch house with an AC86U on the main and AC68U second (daylight basement). Signal access to the lower floor is strongly attenuated by a metal stair rail and the HVAC trunk lines in the floor between the upper and lower levels. All the guest rooms downstairs have RSSI values below -75. I get a signal from the AC86U down there, and its fine for surfing, but for any streaming or large downloads, its no good.